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WG: Do you want to know how much time will be spent singing in the heavenly choir? In heaven, it will be always Now. No measurement of time passing.
JL: So frequently it's the conditional, "answerless" answer.
The answer? We dont know how much time will be spent singing in the heavenly choir. I hate to sing, so I will joyfully volunteer for something else on Cloud 9.
Fair enough. I'd even agree with that. It's why, however, I asked, "So how much singing do you think will take place?"Quote:
The answer? We dont know how much time will be spent singing in the heavenly choir.
No one will hate singing in heaven. It will be a supreme joy above joys.Quote:
I hate to sing, so I will joyfully volunteer for something else on Cloud 9.
My understanding of heaven is that it will be a perfect Earth with life much as we know it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
My singing will be done privately in my spiritual shower.Quote:
No one will hate singing in heaven. It will be a supreme joy above joys.
Life will not be like it is now. It will be far, far better and far more glorious, and the great difference maker will be to be in God's presence unhindered. As Paul said, "For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I [d]cannot tell. 23 [e]For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better."Quote:
My understanding of heaven is that it will be a perfect Earth with life much as we know it now.
By a perfect Earth, I mean the landscapes -- lakes, oceans, mountains, prairies, forests -- that we enjoy now plus the wild animals that will all be tame. No disease, death, trash thrown around. AND we humans will all enjoy each other's company.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
My only concern is the complete absence in your description of what will make heaven truly glorious.
The presence of our glorious God among us, making our new home far more wonderful than anything we can ever imagine! Heaven will be the MOST Glorious, MOST wonderful, most COMPLETELY perfect, and MOST beautiful place beyond our most vivid imagination.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Amen, Wondergirl.
We know that there will be no Oceans. Some Scholars understand it as there being no animals Either. I'm not sure we will even notice or think about the Earth. it will be a new heaven and new Earth. we will not remember anything of the old. Nothing will even resemble anything similar (except Jesus).Quote:
By a perfect Earth, I mean the landscapes -- lakes, oceans, mountains, prairies, forests -- that we enjoy now plus the wild animals that will all be tame.
To throw something at you; might have something to do with this perfection bit. - Will Jesus be Judged and who will be his Judge?
Something I want to ask WG; Why was the tree in the Garden? Does it have anything to do with free will? Before you start - you know what tree I'm talking about.
This is true, but it is not true in the way that you think. In other words; you are saying it but you don't understand what you are actually saying. I can tell you my take on it. I'd like to hear it (if you could kindly elaborate) from you, first. I see you as a pretender...that's why I don't want to try and explain...telling you before I know what it is you don't know before you now know what I already know. That which you should already know, but you don't know.Quote:
With life much as we know it now.
The Christmas tree? Oh, you mean the tree that Adam and Eve picked the fruit from and ate? Please tell me its name. The apple tree? Granny Smith or maybe Red Delicious?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Okay, just shut it. you're on my ignore list.Quote:
The Christmas tree? Oh, you mean the tree that Adam and Eve picked the fruit from and ate? Please tell me its name.
That's what you do, there is nothing straight about you. you are off kilter!
I try to listen and understand. I believe JL makes an effort. You have it already figured out. That being the case, there is no use in speaking with you.
Like I said earlier - The Church doesn't know who God is and we don't know who we are...But WG knows all. You go ahead and believe you can live the life that you are living now the same as if you were living in heaven.Quote:
With life much as we know it now.
Bible stories don't have it be as dry as dust; they can be fun too. Lighten up, waltero!Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Do you really know the correct name of that tree? You called it something else in Post #80. It makes a big difference if a certain two words are missing from the name.
By the way, that story is an allegory.
Pure speculation masquerading as fact.Quote:
By the way, that story is an allegory.
It is very difficult to ever get a simple, straight answer from WG. Not real sure why, but it does seem to be the case.Quote:
The Christmas tree? Oh, you mean the tree that Adam and Eve picked the fruit from and ate? Please tell me its name. The apple tree? Granny Smith or maybe Red Delicious?
By the way, that story is an allegory.
Pure speculation masquerading as fact.
Oh, c'mon! The Hebrew OT writers were excellent storytellers and poets. Allegories, proverbs, psalms (aka songs) were their unique ways of expressing God's truths.
Because I am not a pedant.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
That's true, but it certainly does not render the entire OT as a giant allegory.Quote:
Oh, c'mon! The Hebrew OT writers were excellent storytellers and poets. Allegories, proverbs, psalms (aka songs) were their unique ways of expressing God's truths.
What is your standard for deciding when a passage should be considered non-literal? Note to reader. This question will almost certainly not be answered.
"Dodger" describes you well, I think.Quote:
Because I am not a pedant.
According to the allegory, God created a beautiful Garden, then created Adam and Eve to live there and enjoy it. There was no need for free will; there was nothing negative, no evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
As a test for Adam and Eve, God placed the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the middle of the Garden and told Adam and Eve, "Don't touch this particular tree! If you do, you'll die" -- whatever THAT means since death didn't exist yet! (This is a test sort of like Mom putting a pan of freshly-baked and still hot brownies on the kitchen table to cool and telling her kids, "Don't touch! If I see any missing, I will punish you severely.")
Did I say the OT is "a giant allegory"? No! I said, "Allegories, proverbs, psalms (aka songs) were their unique ways of expressing God's truths."Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
They also recorded their own history in very visual language.
What is an allegory: A story is constructed in such a way as to convey a central theme or moral lesson. Characters' names decipher their literary purpose: Adam = man from the earth ; Eve = mother of all the living. Thus, an allegory is a symbolic literary device to explain abstract ideas beyond the story itself.Quote:
What is your standard for deciding when a passage should be considered non-literal? Note to reader. This question will almost certainly not be answered.
Here's an OT poem, Psalm 114 (KJV). Do you understand it as literal?
1When Israel went out of Egypt, the house of Jacob from a people of strange language;2Judah was his sanctuary, and Israel his dominion.3The sea saw it, and fled: Jordan was driven back.4The mountains skipped like rams, and the little hills like lambs.5What ailed thee, O thou sea, that thou fleddest? thou Jordan, that thou wast driven back?6Ye mountains, that ye skipped like rams; and ye little hills, like lambs?7Tremble, thou earth, at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the God of Jacob;8Which turned the rock into a standing water, the flint into a fountain of waters.
Yep. A dodger for sure. When asked, "What is your standard for deciding when a passage should be considered non-literal?", you respond with a long definition of what an allegory is. But that was not the question, was it?
To decide that Genesis 3 is an allegory, you must employ a standard for deciding when a passage should be taken as an allegory as opposed to being strictly literal. I'd still like to know what your standard is. I know that will not be forthcoming, and perhaps you don't know that yourself, but I'd still like to know.
To complicate matters, a passage can be BOTH literal AND allegorical. Perhaps you are appealing to that interpretation.
No dodge. The description of an allegory matches the elements in Genesis 3. Otherwise, I have no idea what you mean by "standard".Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
We'll find out in heaven if it was literal. Meanwhile, I'll learn a moral lesson from the allegory.
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