I never said that with the meaning that the Bible can't be trusted. That's the conclusion YOU made, not what I said. Now, tell me what I REALLY said.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
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I never said that with the meaning that the Bible can't be trusted. That's the conclusion YOU made, not what I said. Now, tell me what I REALLY said.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
"Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" 2 Peter 1:21 -- and they wrote the Bible in English.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
We could accept them for who they are and for who they are not. You are accepting them into your life, by agreeing with them, approving of them, waiving your own rights, while downplaying their impact upon you.Quote:
The focus is love and acceptance of people who had no choice.
If you don't know the difference?Quote:
They are just like you and me. God loves all of us.
Oh, no you don't! You have stated many times that the Bible has been corrupted and the manuscripts can't be trusted.Quote:
Oh, I appove of the REAL Bible
There's only one Bible.Quote:
just not your version of it.
You are asking me to search through many of your posts. I would if I thought it would do any good. I know what you said, and so does everybody on this site.Quote:
I never said that with the meaning that the Bible can't be trusted. Now, tell me what I REALLY said.
Found one:I could follow up, with many, many more such posts, but I think this says it all.Quote:
Faith means believing God’s Word.
No, it doesn't. Try again.
You are accepting them into your life, by agreeing with them....
Agreeing with them??? Agreeing about what??? Mother Nature messed up during the pregnancies. It could have happened to you just as easily. After the Fall, no longer is humankind only binary.
Faith means believing God’s Word.
C'mon! My faith is in Jesus Christ, my Savior, not in a book.
I can only laugh. Sure WG, You are Correct in allowing yourself to love others as they would love you. Run with that until your dying day and see where it gets you.You have no Christ, without the Bible.Quote:
not in a book.
I love others even if they DON'T love me. Remember the Latin words for love: eros (erotic or self love), philos (brotherly love), and agape (selfless love). Jesus urged us to practice agape.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Therefore, you're saying I have to believe in (have faith in) that book, even every mistranslation? I have to be a literalist in order to be saved?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
I know you do. You are a loving caring person, I can see that (with my ears).Quote:
I love others even if they DON'T love me.
Quote:
My faith is in Jesus Christ, my Savior, not in a book.
When the Pharisees told Jesus to silence His followers for proclaiming Him the King of glory, Jesus said, “I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out”Quote:
No such Christ, without the Bible.
Do you understand why the stones cried out?
How are you going to trust God's word, without the Word?
They cried out because the Pharisees would try to silence Jesus' followers. (That's a personification of stones, btw, a poetic way of telling the Pharisees to shut up.)Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
It is not acceptable to believe only the parts of the Bible that agree with you.
That's not what I'm doing. You're not paying attention, to me OR to Athos.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
It has to do with God's Word, prophesied in Isaiah 62:11. Had to be fulfilled,- being the Word of God, that it is. The impossible will happen rather than the Messianic kingdom fail of recognition.Quote:
When the Pharisees told Jesus to silence His followers for proclaiming Him the King of glory, Jesus said, “I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out”
I believe the Stones did cry out! WORD.
I member in the past, you mentioning that you didn't believe the book of Revelations should have been included?Quote:
That's not what I'm doing. You're not paying attention, to me OR to Athos
You had your doubts about other books as well, heck you have your doubts about the entire book...YABBA-DABBA-DING, DONG!
And the hills clapped their hands....Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Now why would Jesus have to tell them to shut it? He had no need, if they had silenced the crowd, rest assured the stones would cry out. Oh, ye of little faith. Logic is gonna getcha!Quote:
They cried out because the Pharisees would try to silence Jesus' followers. (That's a personification of stones, btw, a poetic way of telling the Pharisees to shut up.)
Come on WG, you can do better than that! Uh err, agreeing with them on eating Ice cream for Breakfast.Quote:
You are accepting them into your life, by agreeing with them??? Agreeing about what???
LGBT stand in agreement (Gay lives Matter) with the World...you should not stand in agreement with the World!
Lives don't Matter!!! Only one "life" that matters...
You totally missed the meaning of that verse.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
It's Revelation, not Revelations.Quote:
I member in the past, you mentioning that you didn't believe the book of Revelations should have been included. You had your doubts about other books as well, heck you have your doubts about the entire book..
Not just me. "The story of the New Testament canon is a fascinating one, with many twists and turns. There are books that were accepted very quickly, almost from the start (e.g., the four gospels), and there are other books that struggled to find a home (e.g., 2 Peter). And then there is the book of Revelation. Few today would contest the claim that the book of Revelation stands as one of the most controversial, complicated, and esoteric books in the New Testament canon."
https://www.michaeljkruger.com/the-b...nto-the-canon/
Not at all, my friend, not at all.Quote:
You stand in agreement with the World!
Prophesy will be fulfilled, If Jesus said the Rocks would cry out- the rocks cried out. You can believe on the Word of God.Quote:
You totally missed the meaning of that verse.
Yup, it was Jesus telling the Pharisees to shut it...rigggghht! If the people didn't cry out then the stones would, cry out. God said it, you should believe it.
Prove it ;-p You seem to prove otherwise?Quote:
Not at all, my friend, not at all.
I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts...have to have God write it on your Heart. Having your friend write it on your heart won't do. You show such distain for the Bible- "that book". What's your hang up? It's not like we're talking about the Book of Mormon, although, according to you, we very well could be! The Word of God (Bible) endures forever!!! Believe it. Nobody who has Jesus in their heart is going to refute the Bible. (I'm not refuting that book, I love that book, the Bible is just a book, so why should I believe in it!)Quote:
Therefore, you're saying I have to believe in (have faith in) that book, even every mistranslation? I have to be a literalist in order to be saved?
I have to prove it to you? Sorry, no. Nothing I can say to you will "prove" anything about my devotion to God. (And my understanding of that is to love others and help them whenever I can.) You made up your mind long ago because I don't parrot the fundie preaching points.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
God has written His love on my heart. Sorry you're still hung up with the law.Quote:
I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts...
That was a quote out of "that book", that you love so much. It is talking about Christians. The fruit of the spirit is love. We are to love God with all our heart (we all fail) If we truly love God we will truly love his Law, and if we truly love God's Law, we will truly love God. Hearts of stone vs hearts of flesh.
Quote:
Iwill put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts.
Hearts of stone vs hearts of flesh. The ten commandments are relevant today as they ever were. God doesn't actually use the term "relationship, "in that book" He doesn't tell us to have a relationship with him, God tells us to love him. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." This is the first and greatest commandment. We see in "that book" that we show love for God by obeying his commands. "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.Quote:
Sorry you're still hung up with the law
Sorry your throwing back "that book" without absorbing it.
For Christians, the Law is a guide for their lives, not the way to salvation. We aren't saved because we keep the Law.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
You're, not your. And I haven't thrown back anything.
Walter, you've made many good points and I generally agree with you, but you missed it when you seemed to say that we are not to have a relationship with God. That is established in many places in the NT. In John 17:3, for instance, Jesus prayed, "3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." Or in Rev. 3:20 where Jesus promised, "If any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in and sup with him and he with me." There is also John 14 where Jesus said, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him." Those are words of relationship.
That's a true statement, but you left it short. It is true that we are not saved by keeping the law, which is to say "by works", but we are saved to bear fruit, and one of those is to keep God's holy laws of moral conduct.Quote:
For Christians, the Law is a guide for their lives, not the way to salvation. We aren't saved because we keep the Law.
A relationship with Jesus, we are called to Love GOD the Father. I didn't go into it as much as would have liked. I will try to explain, later.Quote:
but you missed it when you seemed to say that we are not to have a relationship with God.
We must see GOD the Father for who he is, in relation to his Son (<--any insight?).
It can become confusing. Jesus said that we pray to the Father, but then said in Rev. 3:20 we would dine with Him. I'm still trying to get more clarity on that.
Are you a Trinitarian? Three Persons in one God: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
WG, I get that. But what you might not understand, Jesus is the Son of GOD, 100% Man!Quote:
Are you a Trinitarian? One God in three Persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
You need to understand something. I know this is not easily explained. If you run across somebody who says Jesus is the Son of GOD, what is your automatic response?- Jesus is GOD- Yes? Why do you feel you need to interject that? If a Johovah witness tells you Jesus is not GOD but he is the Son of God, are they lying?
Re-post, so I don't forget. (note to self- King David loved God's Law, meditated on it day and night...David was a man after God’s own heart).Quote:
A relationship with Jesus, we are called to Love GOD the Father. I didn't go into it as much as would have liked. I will try to explain, later.
We must see GOD the Father for who he is, in relation to his Son (<--any insight?).
Yes. Three distinct persons, so you can speak to one and yet not to the other two. The classic illustration of this is the baptism of Jesus. Jesus is baptized, not the Holy Spirit or the Father. The Holy Spirit (not the Father or Jesus) descends upon Jesus as a dove. The Father (not Jesus or the Holy Spirit) speaks from heaven, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." The distinction between Father and Son is especially clear in the quote at the end.Quote:
Three Persons in one God: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
It is very plain in a number of passages.
No, not only 100% man. For human understanding, He was 100% man AND 100% God when he was here on earth. (He was fully and completely both God and Man. Yeah, I know -- difficult concept.) "Jesus claimed the divine name (John 8:58) and did things that only God can do (Mark 2:1–12; Luke 7:48–50). But Jesus also displayed the weaknesses and vulnerabilities common to humanity (Luke 19:41; John 19:28)."Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-God-man.html
Once Jesus the Christ returned to heaven, he was and is 100% God.
I have nothing to do with JWs. If that's what they believe, they aren't fully informed.Quote:
You need to understand something. I know this is not easily explained. If you run across somebody who says Jesus is the Son of GOD, what is your automatic response?- Jesus is GOD- Yes? Why do you feel you need to interject that? If a Johovah witness tells you Jesus is not GOD but he is the Son of God, are they lying?
Re-post, so I don't forget.
You're taking away from The 'Man' Jesus. You should see the separation, as well as the unity. They are in complete agreement with each other. Jesus Is 100% man. The Fact that he is 100% GOD doesn't take away from the fact that he's 100% man!
This is a hard subject to comprehend. If you don't understand this, then you're missing out. How is a person even able to go forward with the above topic if you're not willing to understand. I'm not saying you're doomed for everlasting punishment. I'm simply saying that there are those who eat meat and others who are still drinking Milk...not that that is a bad thing. If you have your mind set, I will not talk about it any longer.
So far so good.Quote:
No, not only 100% man. For human understanding, He was 100% man AND 100% God when he was here on earth. (He was fully and completely both God and Man. Yeah, I know -- difficult concept.) "Jesus claimed the divine name (John 8:58) and did things that only God can do (Mark 2:1–12; Luke 7:48–50).
True in the sense that He could become tired, hungry, etc. But not true if you are referring to sin. BTW, I don't think you are.Quote:
But Jesus also displayed the weaknesses and vulnerabilities common to humanity
Do you mean God ONLY and no longer man?Quote:
Once Jesus the Christ returned to heaven, he was and is 100% God.
*You're, not your.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
I'm not taking away anything. You are! Read what jlisenbe said in post #226.
I thought of that as I posted. You're right. Jesus is still 100% God and 100% man.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Like He, as a man, said to the thief on the cross, "Today you'll be with me in Paradise."
You're taking away from The 'Man' Jesus. You should see the separation, as well as the unity. They are in complete agreement with each other. Jesus Is 100% man. The Fact that he is 100% GOD doesn't take away from the fact that he's 100% man!
This is a hard subject to comprehend. If you don't understand this, then you're missing out. How is a person even able to go forward with the above topic if you're not willing to understand. I'm not saying you're doomed for everlasting punishment. I'm simply saying that there are those who eat meat and others who are still drinking Milk...not that that is a bad thing. If you have your mind set, I will not talk about it any longer.
Which is it?Quote:
No, not only 100% man
Jesus is still 100% man.
Are you trying to tell me that Jesus wasn't "Born" 100% man? Do you know Why they report the lineage of Joseph (Jesus earthly Father)?
Thank you. I was correcting it at the time you posted.Quote:
You're, not your.
No, I'm not! I said He is 100% God and 100% man.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
So you don't see him as Man, but a GODMAN? If somebody tells you Jesus is not GOD but he is the Son of God, are they lying?Quote:
No, not only 100% man.
I said He is 100% God and 100% man.
Do you know Why they report the lineage of Joseph (Jesus earthly Father)?
I'm good with what ever you think.
We must see GOD the Father for who he is, in relation to his Son...Jesus became Sin.
Noooooo!!! God AND man.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
He doesn't know and understand the whole story.Quote:
If somebody tells you Jesus is not GOD but he is the Son of God, are they lying?
That lineage goes all the way back to Adam (in Luke) and Abraham (in Matthew). Jesus is presented as the long-awaited Messiah, who was expected to be a descendant of King David.Quote:
Do you know Why they report the lineage of Joseph (Jesus earthly Father)?
I'm good with what ever you think.
Can a person come to know Jesus, as King and savior of the World, 'the Man'? Knowing GOD, while not understanding the Trinity?Quote:
Noooooo!!! God AND man.
Simple yes or no question? You feel the need to have them understand the Trinity, same as you 'might' understand it (why can't you let it go)? Yes, Jesus is the Son of GOD, the one and only Son of GOD...now let me tell you about GOD...Quote:
If somebody tells you Jesus is not GOD but he is the Son of God, are they lying?
.Sure, that would explain Mary's lineage, but they included Joseph's lineage also?Quote:
That lineage goes all the way back to Adam (in Luke) and Abraham (in Matthew). Jesus is presented as the long-awaited Messiah, who was expected to be a descendant of King David
Of course!Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
All they need to understand is that God loves them and forgives them because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.Quote:
Simple yes or no question? You feel the need to have them understand the Trinity, same as you 'might' understand it (why can't you let it go)?.
Joseph wasn't part of the deal in getting Mary pregnant. Luke says Joseph's lineage, like Mary's, includes King David.Quote:
Sure, that would explain Mary's lineage, but they included Joseph's lineage also?
Then why do you think they took the trouble of laying it all out before us?Quote:
Joseph wasn't part of the deal.
True, I like that.Quote:
All they need to understand is that God loves them and forgives them because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.
You would have to understand how the Jews laid out a person's genealogy, and thus why Joseph's line was included in Luke's account. Luke, a doctor, connects Jesus’ humanity all the way back to the first man, Adam.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Is this your Answer? Could it be, that Joseph was Jesus Father???Quote:
You would have to understand how the Jews laid out a person's genealogy, and thus why Joseph's line was included in Luke's account.
Do you want more?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
What's YOUR answer?
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