Tj3,
I said I believe all of the bible.
Please accept that.
Why must I tell you that over and over?
Fred
|
Tj3,
I said I believe all of the bible.
Please accept that.
Why must I tell you that over and over?
Fred
Our path in life as servants to Our Father . 1. Knowing [Truth] that is Our Father, 2. Baptism [Gifted The Holy Ghost ], and to die with Christ. The death of our sins, thus alive in Christ. 3.God's Grace [ Christ] to believe in Him, and to beleive He raised to [ New Life] in Heaven and Promise of His return.
Until His return we are to live righteously, existing more righteous then those exampled in the bible.
1. Who is Truth? Our Father "ONE"
1 John 5: 6-7 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; [not by water only,] but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is Truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
2. Baptism=The Holy Ghost & Dead with Christ
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. Grace New Life, Alive
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness
Essential to Salvation as a Servant
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.
1 John 2:29 If ye know that He is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of Him.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Hebrews 9:27-28 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Full Well Knowing
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Because you keep claiming a works based gospel which the Bible says is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
The Gospel says that faith is work:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
John 6 29 Jesus answered, and said to them: This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he hath sent.
Jesus says that we must work to be saved:
Matt 25 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:
36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.
The epistles say the same:
Romans 2 5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God.
6 Who will render to every man according to his works. 7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: 8 But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. 9 Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. 10 But glory, and honour, and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Hebrews 12 28 Therefore receiving an immoveable kingdom, we have grace; whereby let us serve, pleasing God, with fear and reverence. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
James 2 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
So it is you TJ who are violating Scripture. Arcura is correct.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Perhaps you missed the words "of God".Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
This verse said nothing about working to be saved.Quote:
Jesus says that we must work to be saved:
Nor those verses. You are mixing up rewards, and faithfulness after salvation with the requirements for salvation.Quote:
The epistles say the same:[I]
Show me a single verse which says that works are essential for salvation.
Lets review the entire verse with context so you can see how you are misunderstanding what Jesus said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
The Jews asked, (follow the bold letters):
John 6 28 They said therefore unto him: What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?
And Jesus answered:
John 6 29 Jesus answered, and said to them: This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he hath sent.
Obviously then, the Jews wanted to know, what does God want us to do. And Jesus answered God wants you to believe in me. Now, believing in Jesus is the definition of faith in Jesus. So faith is a work.
Sure it does. It outlines what you must do to attain glory and the verse following outlines that if you don't do that, you will be condemned. So, add two and two together.Quote:
This verse said nothing about working to be saved.
No I'm not. Read the words yourself:Quote:
Nor those verses. You are mixing up rewards, and faithfulness after salvation with the requirements for salvation.
Romans 2 5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God.
This says that if one is impenitent, he stores up wrath on the day of judgement.
Since you don't believe in Purgatory, this means that individual is going to hell.
[b]6 Who will render to every man according to his works.
This further explains why that individual is going to hell. Because God will render to every man according to his works. That means if one does good, one goes to heaven. If one does evil, one goes to hell.
7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work,seek glory and honour and incorruption,
Now pay attention. If we do good because we seek to go to heaven we will be rewarded with what?
eternal life:
If you said "eternal life", you get the greenie.
Now, stay focused.
8 But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation.
What do those receive who work evil as described in verse 8?
9 Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil,
Tribulation and anguish. Since you don't believe in Purgatory, that means that those who work evil will go to hell.
I don't see how it could be more plainly explained.
of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. 10 But glory, and honour, and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
But I guess just to make certain, St. Paul repeats it.
Read Romans 2 verse 8 - 10 above.Quote:
Show me a single verse which says that works are essential for salvation.
Sincerely,
De Maria
I am amazed at how you managed to manipulate that to suggest that what scripture says is a work of God, is, in your view a work of man.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
De Maria,
I seriously fear that Tj3 will never see that "faith without works is dead", useless or that we MUST "WORK out our salvation with fear and trembling."
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred,Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
We've been through this before. In Greek, faith and faithfulness are one and the same (the same word even). If you have no works to show, then are you being faithful?
And how would an unbeliever be faithful to God? Scripture says that an unbeliever cannot be faithful. Therefore works have no merit for an unbeliever. The works therefore are an indicator of our faithfulness to our Saviour.
I note that you can never harmonize faith without works is dead with "not of works lest any man should boast", and yet reading it with this understanding of Greek, the harmonize nicely.
Tj3,
Yes we have been through that before and I have told you that I will believe the translations in the best versions of the bible, not yours translation versions.
Fred
saintjoan
Your tongue in cheek statement is not well take or acurate.
The Catholic Church very much does believe in and trust the bible.
There teachings and writings and The Catechism of The Catholic Church proves that.
After all The Catholic Church promulgated the bible under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It knows if far better and any other.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Tj3, your faith is strong..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Pray Daily
Psalms 17: 6 I have called upon thee, for thou wilt hear me, O God: incline thine ear unto me, and hear my speech. Shew thy marvellous lovingkindness, O thou that savest by thy right hand them which put their trust [in Thee], from those that rise up against them. Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings,
Daily we need Our Heaven Father to protect us from falling to sin
Psalms 17:4-5 Concerning the works of men, by the word of Thy lips, I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer. Hold up my goings in thy paths, that my footsteps slip not.
We have defence against daily sin
Romans 9:30-33 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[Wherefore?] Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and [rock of offence:] and whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.
The Marking of the Devil
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the [devils also believe,] and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
This is Everyone's Question..Is faith without works dead?
The scriptures in James 20 go on to say how Abraham was save by his works that were done by faith and how this example shows that works made faith perfect. James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works [a man is justified, and not by faith only.]
Good Day to you
Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV
Detail this scripture down step by step.
1. By Grace you are saved..
2. Not of yourself..
3. It is a Gift of God
4. Not given of works. (So that a man could boast.)
This details that works will not give you Grace.. It does not come of man.. But it comes of God's love.
Fred,Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
I appreciate the compliment, but I did not translate the Bible. On the other hand, you could always go to the Greek to validate what you claim to be a better translation as I do.
Not if you understand the Bible. Here is what St. Paul says:Quote:
Originally Posted by saintjoan
Philippians 2 12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.
Hebrews 12 28 Therefore receiving an immoveable kingdom, we have grace; whereby let us serve, pleasing God, with fear and reverence. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Matthew 7 21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
And St. John would not contradict that idea because the Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself. So what does St. John mean?
He means that you must truly believe. Not just claim to believe. This is not once saved always saved. Lets look a the first chapter of 1 John:Quote:
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he also is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Notice all the "ifs". And lets just break down verse 6.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
Obviously, it doesn't matter if we claim to know Jesus, what matters is how we live our life. So this is not what Protestants like saintjoan call ABSOLUTE assurance. It is conditional assurance as the Scripture's teach and as the Catholic Church teaches. Because ultimately we don't judge ourselves, it is God who judges us:
1 Corinthians 4 3 But to me it is a very small thing to be judged by you, or by man's day; but neither do I judge my own self. 4 For I am not conscious to myself of any thing, yet am I not hereby justified; but he that judgeth me, is the Lord
The Catholic Church is the true Bible believing Church. Those who teach Sola Scriptura twist the meaning of the Bible teach this man made doctrine. As has been proved before, Sola Scriptura says that the Bible is the sole source of doctrine. But the Bible does not teach that the Bible is the sole source of doctrine. Therefore the source for Sola Scriptura is not the Bible and that makes Sola Scriptura a false teaching.Quote:
Of course Bible believing Christians are wrong,
That's a blatant lie. The Catholic Church teaches that the Bible is inerrant because it contains the Word of God.Quote:
For the church (Roman Catholic) teaches that those who believe what is written in the Bible concerning eternal life are anathama.
Not true. The Catholic Church teaches the Word of God.Quote:
And we all know the Roman Catholic Church is to be trusted more than God's Holy Word.
The Catholic Church does teach that people like saintjoan who contradict Church teaching are to be avoided however. St. Paul puts it like this:
Galatians 1 9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
What IF you were born again , but upon further inspection you changed your mind and decided that christianity was too fear/threat based, exclusive, and that Gods acceptance of spending eternity with him was "conditional?" This still won't cause you to lose your salvation??
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
That does not sound like "peace and kindness" Fred. Sounds kind of mean and hateful.:(
Sounds like you're baiting Christians. Christian baiters are reserved to the Religious Discussion boards. The Christian board is for Christians and people seeking Christian answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Bye!
Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
It looked to me like he was making an observation. The boards are not reserved for Christians alone. Indeed, I would like to see both Christians and non-Christians willing to interact respectfully.
Scripture agrees that it is possible to walk away from your salvation, but it suggests that it may not be possible to come back again.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Heb 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
NKJV
I doubt that there are many who do so. Many people who say that they are saved and turn away may not have been saved in the first place (Matt 7:21-23), and it is my opinion that the numbers who are truly saved and then wal;k away from it are few indeed.
I would too. That is what the member Religious discussions are for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
On the other hand, I don't see any real interaction from this person. Just putting Christians. So I thought he/she might might need to be informed of the board ruling. Especially since I don't think it is posted.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Try interacting with him and see.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
cozyk,
I am not a mean and spiteful person, far from it.
I may sound that way to you and I'm sorry that you think that way.
When I am through discussing a subject I think it is fair and right to let the person know that rather leave them hanging wasting time making more post on the subject will will not be responded to.
From my point of view proving such information is a kind gesture.
It provides inforantion that saves the other person time and effort.
And I do sincerely wish for peace and kindness for all people here.
Fred (arcura)
We are saved by grace, not by works.
What then, if one turns back away from GOD to live in sin
with an unrepentant and unregenerate heart?
Look to what GOD says in his word:
From the Gospels
Matthew 24:13 - "But he who endures to the end shall be saved." ~ Note: Part of the meaning of the word saved, from the Greek word sozo, is to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgement. The word that Jesus Christ spoke will judge in the last day (John 12:48). This being saved is clearly conditional. We must endure to the end. To endure means to remain, not to recede or flee, to preserve under misfortunes and trials, to hold fast to one's faith in Christ, to bear bravely and calmly ill treatments. It's the same word here: If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us - 2 Timothy 2:12. We must endure through whatever comes our way all the way until we die with Him in our lives, then we will live and reign with Him. If we wind up denying Him before the time of our death, you can't get around the word of God here, He will deny us.
Matthew 24:24,25 - "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand." ~ Note: The word deceive also means to cause to stray, lead aside from the right way, to sever or fall away from the truth, to be led away into error and sin. That is definitely the loss of salvation because it means to be severed or fallen away from the truth. They will stray and be led aside from the right way. They will be led away into error and sin. We have no license to fall back into the bondage of sin again. Some people want to think this Scripture means that it is not possible when He said "if possible," but Christ would not have said this just to be playing games with us by there being no way it can happen. The word for beforehand also means to say before the event: prophecies. This was Christ telling us that it would happen. So don't be deceived that you can't be deceived, or then you may wind up one of those who do in fact get deceived.
Luke 12:45,46 - "But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." ~ Note: Someone can be a servant of Christ then start the practice of sin again and not be ready for eternal life when Christ comes back. This person will go where the unbelievers go. Verses 47 and 48 prove there will be varying degrees of punishment in hell. It will be worse for the ones who lose their salvation. 2 Peter 2:20,21 also proves this.
THE PARABLE of THE SOWER
Luke 8:5-8 - Jesus said, "A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the wayside; and it was trampled down, and the birds of the air devoured it. Some fell on rock, and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it. But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold." When He had said these things He cried, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" ~ Note: If you can hear then you ought to know that in order for someone to wither away they had to once have a good life in the body of Christ. Someone can't wither away if they were never saved to begin with, because if they were never saved then they never had life that could wither away.
JESUS then explained THE PARABLE of THE SOWER
Luke 8:11-15 - Jesus said, "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved (Note: These people do not become believers after they hear the word of God, but the others next do believe and get born again, but they lose their life in Christ and fall away because of sin). But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while (Note: For a time they were born-again believers. It's the common word for believe, pisteuo. They had saving faith. They had the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative of law and soul. That is what to believe means. In other words, they had the power of God within them to drive them to have a distinctively superior advantage of having their souls obey His moral law, but they only did it for a while.) and in time of temptation fall away (Note: They had been set free from sin, but they didn't resist the temptation when they were enticed to sin. The word for fall away means they depart, desert, withdraw, fall away, whichever definition you choose to use, from having life in Christ. They became faithless. They got that way because they fell for the temptation of sin.)" The people who say that the ones who fall away were not real believers contradict God's word, because it clearly says they believed for a while. Plus you can't fall away from something if you were never with it to begin with.
"Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and they are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity." ~ Note: To go out also means to pursue the journey on which one has entered. They had entered into a life with Christ; but while seeking where that life would lead them, their fruit did not mature. They got choked. It means to choke utterly the seed of the divine word sown in the mind. Riches (wealth, abundance of external possessions) and pleasures (lust) is what caused it. I will show you later that you need to bear good fruit.
"But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it (Note: The word for keep means hold fast, keep, stay in regards to from going away. This is our personal responsibility to continue to believe the word of God and to stay faithful to Him) and bear fruit with patience." ~ Note: The word for patience more correctly means enduring, perseverance, the characteristic of a man who is not swerved from his deliberate purpose and his loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings. To be saved at the end, you must persevere while bearing good fruit. Jesus made it clear that a true believer produces good fruit, and that the human will is involved in remaining a believer, since He says we must keep it and persevere. Christ proves here that no one is eternally secure no matter what they do.
Rod Mix
Rod_Mix,
Yes there are several ways a person can lose the salvation they once my have had.
One of the ways has happened to many people.
For some reason or other they have rejected God.
Another is that for some reason or other they have refused to forgive others.
Jesus said it plain and clear that a person must be forgiven to go to heaven and a person who does not forgive others will NOT be forgiven.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
cozyk,Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Just now saw this... sorry. Ok well I have been actually studying this very thing. I believe IF and that is HUGE IF someone were saved, that someone is always saved. PERIOD. Nothing you can do or say can change it. I already know what I am saying in controversial but I believe it to my core and I believe it because the scripture teaches it. The problem that I have is the IF... I know that I KNOW I am the Lord's. Not because I'm special, not because I am moral, not because I remembered to forgive everyone today but because I am relying on and ONLY on what Jesus Christ did for me on the cross. When he said... "it is finished". I believe it. There is nothing I can do to lose my salvation. I was sealed with his Spirit. So as crazy as this sounds... if I awoke tomorrow thinking I could do it on my own... my Lord has said this to me... I will NEVER leave you or forsake you. ( He was speaking to the believer) He didn't put a condition on it... not a one cozyk. And one last thought... Christianity isn't fear based... it is all about love. You told me you liked Joel Osteen... what about Joel's message is scary?
Christianity is and should be about Love. Having said that, the Lord did give us a glimpse of things to come. To warn, to encourage, to enlighten and to inform us. Would you think Him a Loving God if he didn't let you know what will happen IF people reject His son? But the good news is... it doesn't have to happen!!
classyT
Yes there are ways a person can lose his/her salvation as I have mentioned before in this thread.
Fred
If you mean that you can lose your salvation as opposed to rejecting it, you will be hard pressed to find anything in scripture to support that theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
John 10:28-30
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one."
NKJV
I accept God's assurance that no one can tale our salvation away. So no, we cannot "lose" our salvation.
We can, however, choose to walk away intentionally from our salvation.
Tj3,
I mean that a person can lose his/her salvation in several ways and one of them is to later in life turn from God and reject Him by becoming an atheist or some other way od thinking and believing.
Also a person can get into a situation where for some reason the refuse to forgive others.
Jesus clearly tells us that those who do not forgive will not be forgiven and that one must be forgiven to go to heaven.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Scripture says that there is one way by which we can ceased to be saved and that is to deliberately reject Him. We cannot simply "lose" our salvation. You can so say, but you will not find that in scripture.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
No. I don't believe one can loose their salvation unless you fully reject God. He lives within your inner most being. God lives in you if you accept that you are him and he is you I feel you cannot loose your salvation.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain_man
Tj3,Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Here is my problem, I can't IMAGINE someone really having a personal relationship with the Lord and say... naah, I got my own way. I can see someone wondering off, getting into things they shouldn't because I have! I can even see many owning Christianity without KNOWING him.
What do you do with the Lord saying I will NEVER leave you or forsake you. There isn't a condition to it. How can we be put "in Christ" Christ in us, only to have all that undone?
When those that stand before him saying Lord, Lord haven't we done this and that in your name.. the Lord says.. depart... I NEVER knew you. Not... I knew you once but you left me.
Oh well. Just my thoughts.
ClassyT, I am not sure if you want my opinon, but please know I do offer the edified hope, in love of Christ for all His children. It is the same goodness that He has asked that we give others. I hope that is okay..Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Your quote words is answered by refer in (Matthew 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.)
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
These verses show the difference in measure of knowledge, and the up and down of reaping what is sown.
Agreed. I personally do not think that many turn away but Paul gave us examples in scripture of some who did fall away from the faith. To fall away means that they were once there, and left.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
God is faithful and will never leave us or forsake us, but man is not so trustworthy.Quote:
What do you do with the Lord saying I will NEVER leave you or forsake you. There isn't a condition to it. How can we be put "in Christ" Christ in us, only to have all that undone?
If God's faithfulness meant that we would never be allowed to leave Him on our own freewill, then why did He let Adam fall?
I could not agree more. By being as open as you are I truly believe you are without hindrance to receiving the light of God and all the wisdom and knowledge that comes with it. Which allows you live out jesus greatest commandment love thy neighbor as thyself. See many christians are great @ quoting the bible and making reference to scripture but do they TRULY understand the words they are speaking? In my experience they don't. To be close to good, you need to put actions into your words!Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Snd,Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Of course it is OK. I see this parable totally differently. Not so much about the reaping and the sowing but about the ones that receive the seed and bring forth fruit. They all get the same seed... looks to me that only ONE group does something with it. In other words, only one group is REAL. That is my take.
Tj3,
I stand by what I said.
Fred
Paul tells about an event that must happen before the great day of the Lord arrives.
2 Thessalonians 2:3&4 "Let no one deceive you by any means; for thatDay will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."
The "falling away" must accur. Most Bible scholars believe this refers to a "great apostasy"
Of the church, when a large portion of the church decends into heresy and ungodly living.
This sounds like we can lose our salvation, we all have choices until our time is up.
Make sure you are staying close to Jesus in prayer and keeping His teaching.
Love and Blessings Maggie 3
I just see more differences of opinion between christians. If you can't agree what is correct among yourselves, how to you think you can convert other faiths?
Whether there is agreement amongst people who profess to be Christians is not the issue. Indeed when you have two groups, one who holds strictly to what God said in His written word, and others who add to it by adding denominational traditions and other sources, you will, of necessity, have differences.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
That is why God gave us His written word to adhere to - it never changes. What Christianity truly is is not what different men and women believe, but rather what the Bible teaches and we are to be conforming our beliefs to what the Bible says.
BTW, no Christian ever converted anyone. What scripture tells us to do is to preach God's word, and it is the Holy Spirit who converts by working on the heart.
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