The Problem with the Church is -We don't know who God is, we Don't know who we are.

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So darkness is not really darkness and sin is not really sin?

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Even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you.
But darkness shall not be dark to thee, and night shall be light as day: the darkness thereof, and the light thereof are alike to thee.

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I consider myself to be whatever the Bible says I am.

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And what does the Bible say you are? It tells me I am a sinner. Born in sin. Yet God gives me life, in Jesus. You might think of your actions as being righteous but you remain a sinner. King David nor any of the Prophets (any human that was from God) never thought of themselves as righteous. Jesus even mentioned that he was not perfect. Not forgetting Apostle Paul; Which I am Chief sinner. He didn't say - Which I "was" Chief sinner.

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Giving praise to God does not involve only singing.

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I'm totally Okay with singing and giving him praise, for all of eternity!

Look at the levitical Priests (we are to be priests)...they did nothing but give service to God. Feel free to think anything you like. King Davids's most desire was to stay in the house of the Lord "always." Anything other than giving praise to God comes from you...there will be no you in Heaven (remember Empty vessal). Although we will still have our Character.

We are to live a song, a song for the Lord. Bible tells us; make a new Song every day. Be assured, God will put a song in your heart that will be everlasting life.

So the Scriptures need to remind us again and again to “sing a new song.” Sing Something New Three Psalms start with precisely these words — Psalms 96, 98, and 149 — “sing to the Lord a new song.” As does Isaiah 42:10 (“sing to the Lord a new song”) and Psalm 33:3 (“sing to him a new song”).

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Originally Posted by waltero

I'm totally Okay with singing and giving him praise.
Look at the levitical priests...they did nothing but give service to God.

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And "service to God" is NOT singing. As I said, "Giving praise to God does not involve only singing."

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Originally Posted by waltero

there will be no you in Heaven (remember Empty vessal). Although we will still have our Character

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I have absolutely no idea what you mean. Body and soul will be reunited on the Last Day.

May I ask? Are you a Witness?

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Giving praise to God does not involve only singing.

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Yet again, a direct question goes unanswered.\

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And what does the Bible say you are?

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This. "9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy."

And this. "For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

And this. "Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."

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It tells me I am a sinner. Born in sin. Yet God gives me life, in Jesus.

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Agree with this.

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You might think of your actions as being righteous

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Now you are trying to be clever. That's regrettable. I have never said that. I have said repeatedly that I have the righteousness of Christ, imputed to me by grace. It is all of Him and none of me, and yet given to me to enjoy and rest upon.

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King David nor any Profit (any human that was from God) never thought of themselves as righteous. Jesus even mentioned that he was not perfect.

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I assume you mean that Jesus said DAVID was not perfect as opposed to saying JESUS was not perfect. At any rate, do you think God answered this prayer of David?

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"Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.
8 Let me hear joy and gladness; let the bones you have crushed rejoice.
9 Hide your face from my sins and blot out all my iniquity.

10 Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.

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And what does the Bible say you are?

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Yes. we become righteous in Christ Jesus...we are not Righteous. We should never consider ourselves to be Righteous. That's all I'm saying.

Not sure if you caught my earlier edited post. Paul Said he "is" Chief Sinner. Jesus mentioned that not even he was perfect.

I don't post Bible references much, because I just read it and don't feel the need to post it just to have others tell me I'm Wrong in my understanding. It's there. It is just as easy for you to look it up.

That's kind of a thing with me. People don't have to search the Scriptures anymore...they can just point to a verse and use it as they wish.

We are just an empty shell, how are we supposed to tell ourselves that we are Righteous? we tell ourselves he is righteous and we hitch our wagon to him. I think we are saying the same thing.

We know who and what we are. Our Sin (body) is covered with the Glory (Jesus) of God. We are clothed with his Righteousness. He no longer sees the sin, it is as if we were Righteous...because we know that it is not us, we are not righteous. Jesus's righteousness is as close as we will ever come to being Righteous. It is not us, it is what we receive from God. God gave us his righteousness. God Bless.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Yet again, a direct question goes unanswered.

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Direct question? Praising God through service is much more than just singing. Service to God is unselfish giving of money and your own abilities to Him and to others, empathy, kind actions toward others..."love one another; as I have loved you" (John 13:34).

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Praising God through service is much more than just singing.

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That is equivalent to saying - God's righteousness is much more than just God. Why would you not be happy with simply Praising (singing) about the Glory You have received from God, too God?

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Originally Posted by waltero

that is equivalent to saying - God's righteousness is much more than just God

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Huh? That makes no sense. There is no equivalency at all.

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Direct question? Praising God through service is much more than just singing. Service to God is unselfish giving of money and your own abilities to Him and to others, empathy, kind actions toward others..."love one another; as I have loved you" (John 13:34).

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You are nothing if not consistent. Still unanswered. Here it is again. I feel certain it will still remain unanswered, but perhaps not. We'll see. "So how much singing do you think will take place? Will you not desire to praise Him endlessly, the one who gave His life for you?"

I would say this that I think you will possibly agree with. I don't think the Bible says we will spend all of our time singing, but I can't imagine anything more satisfying or glorious that praising, loving and worshiping the triune God. I eagerly look forward to it. Christians should all go out with a wonderful smile on our faces as we remember that in just a few more seconds we will see His face and His glory. Wow!!

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Paul Said he "is" Chief Sinner. Jesus mentioned that not even he was perfect.

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Are you suggesting that Jesus claimed He was not perfect???

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I don't post Bible references much, because I just read it and don't feel the need to post it just to have others tell me I'm Wrong in my understanding. It's there. It is just as easy for you to look it up.

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Oh brother. You have become just like WG. You make an assertion which you cannot support, and then you want to tell the other person to find support for you. That's unspeakably cheap. Stir yourself to do your own work.

God no longer sees our sin because it is gone.

Two more passages for you to ponder.

Therefore if any person is [ingrafted] in Christ (the Messiah) he is a new creation (a new creature altogether); the old [previous moral and spiritual condition] has passed away. Behold, the fresh and new has come!

From Hebrews 8.
For this is the covenant
that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, says the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 And each person will not teach his fellow citizen,[e]
and each his brother or sister, saying, “Know the Lord,”
because they will all know me,
from the least to the greatest of them.
12 For I will forgive their wrongdoing,
and I will never again remember their sins.

OK. One more. "as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us." How far is the east from the west? An infinite distance.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You are nothing if not consistent. Still unanswered. Here it is again. I feel certain it will still remain unanswered, but perhaps not. We'll see. "So how much singing do you think will take place? Will you not desire to praise Him endlessly, the one who gave His life for you?"

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Every moment with Him, every second! that we spend giving to and sharing with others (yes, in heaven!!!) will be a song of praise to Him!

And this begins at the moment of death --

"The topic of near-death experiences has been a widely-debated subject, but scientists are claiming to have discovered that a person's consciousness continues to work after the body has stopped showing signs of life..."
https://popculture.com/trending/news...er-death-died/

Still unanswered. I do admire your consistency, though in this case it is inappropriate, but I appreciate you demonstrating that I know you very well!!

I am all for you and hope you do well.

Asked and answered!!!

So how much singing do you think will take place? Will you not desire to praise Him endlessly, the one who gave His life for you?"
"Every moment with Him, every second!"

I added more while you were busy raking me over the coals. Please return to finish reading Post #110.

Nah. Just your usual evasiveness. Why are liberals so afraid of answering direct questions, and especially in this case? It was a simple question. If it bothers you, then we'll just move on.

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Service to God is unselfish giving of money and your own abilities to Him and to others, empathy, kind actions toward others..." love one another; as I have loved you"

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That tells me that, that is all it is to you. It's not about how well we can Love.

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Praising God through service

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It's not in the Sevice it's in the Life. It's not a service that you can live his life. He is living His life in you, you are not to live your life in him.

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Are you suggesting that Jesus claimed He was not perfect?

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I'm not suggesting. I just read (in the Bible)it. You can find it if you disagree. If I go back and find and post, then you will simply ignore it. is that your position; No, NO! I am not looked upon as if I am righteous...I'm Righteous. Have it your way, I'm okay with that.

I know God looks on Jesus when it comes to my life. We are being transformed into his likeness. We are in the Body of Jesus...he has become sin. So If Paul thought of himself (not past tense) as Chief Sinner, we as Christians are to think of ourselves as Righteous? All because I understand it as; God looks on us as if we are Rightoues. Regarding Abraham, it was credited to him as being righteous.

You understand that your entire argument (that seems to be your thing) is unimportant. it might be important to you, being that you want to be made righteous. So you are made righteous...go tell it to the mountains.

@JL; It seems to be a little harder to find than I would have thought. I was going to look at it to see if I misread it.
Jesus was Talking to his Disciples and said; I have not been made Perfect until I am (can't remember)...indicating having to go through...? I have Bibles placed all around my house. I will have to wait till I go downstairs to see if I can find it. I think it's a few Chapters back from where i left off.

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Originally Posted by waltero

It's not in the Sevice it's in the Life. It's not a service that you can live his life. He is living His life in you, you are not to live your live in him.

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Jesus lives in us and we live in Him. His love for us prompts us to share that love with others.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Nah. Just your usual evasiveness. Why are liberals so afraid of answering direct questions, and especially in this case? It was a simple question. If it bothers you, then we'll just move on.

"So how much singing do you think will take place? Will you not desire to praise Him endlessly, the one who gave His life for you?"

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Do you want to know how much time will be spent singing in the heavenly choir? In heaven, it will be always Now. No measurement of time passing.

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@JL; It seems to be a little harder to find than I would have thought. I was going to look at it to see if I misread it.
Jesus was Talking to his Disciples and said; I have not been made Perfect until I am (can't remember)...indicating having to go through...? I have Bibles placed all around my house. I will have to wait till I go downstairs to see if I can find it. I think it's a few Chapters back from where i left off.

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I think you're offbase on that one. He is the perfect, flawless, sinless Lamb of God. That has been Christian doctrine for ages. It took a perfect sacrifice to atone for millions of people.

Jesus said, "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.”

Peter said, "who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth."

He also said, "knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ."

Paul said, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

Hebrews 4:15. "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin."

John said, "You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin."

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Do you want to know how much time will be spent singing in the heavenly choir? In heaven, it will be always Now. No measurement of time passing.

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So frequently it's the conditional, "answerless" answer.

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Jesus lives in us and we live in Him. His love for us prompts us to share that love with others.

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I like that. Very true.

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His love for us prompts us to share that love with others

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Yes. Remember it has nothing to do with our love. It is not to be considered a service.

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Jesus lives in us and we live in Him.

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Just don’t act as if you still live in the sphere of the flesh...Praising God through service is much more than just singing...coming from the flesh?

In Christ Jesus, you have been drawn into the order of redemption. There is no part of you that you can hold back for yourself. There is no part of you that belongs to the world.

Walter, I think you are referring to Luke 13:32 where it reads in the KJV, "And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected." But the context does not really support that translation, and virtually all other translations render "perfect" as having the meaning of finishing His work at Calvary. It certainly fits the context much better and does not put the passage in disagreement with the rest of the NT, nor the half-dozen passages I noted above.