Ask Me Help Desk - IS the "Church" the same as the "Roman Catholic Church"?

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The center of Christendom is in an office,

The center of Christianity is covenant of God and the mediator of that covenant. Moses was one of the mediators who worked on behalf of the King as was Abraham, Noah, etc. The focus is not on an office but on God and his covenant.

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A sacrifice we are invited to partake, the sacrifice rejected by non-Catholics.

Non-Catholics do not reject the one and only sacrifice offered by Jesus Christ for our salvation. They only reject the daily sacrifices the RC priests offer indicating that the sacrifice Jesus Christ offered was not sufficient.

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In the Catholic teaching priests enjoy the fullness of ordination, primi ordinis. Deacon is an attendant to the priest with no priestly powers. This was foreshadowed by Melchisedech (cf. Genesis 14:18 sqq.) who offered bread and wine.

How?

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The priesthood of Melchisedech was a prophetic reference to the Last Supper and the Mass where the bread and wine are sacrificed, changed into the ‘Real Presence’ of Christ.

Melchisedech was reference to Jesus Christ as the scripture itself says. By the way where does it say that wine changes to the Blood of Christ?

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It’s in joining Christ in His continual sacrifice offered daily in commemoration of his perfect sacrifice that is resented.

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:10

The scripture says we are all sanctified by the sacrifice offered once for all. Do you mean to say that the scripture is wrong?

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The reason should be obvious, it is the priest who offers the sacrifice, without the ordained priest we are without the Holy Eucharist, and without the Eucharist there is no Church. Christianity becomes story tellers with no Real Presence of Christ.

So what about the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit not the presence of Christ?

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:23-24

The Holy Spirit is given to everyone that believes in Jesus Christ and that is His prescience.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive:...)John 7:39

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The evidence is clear that the early Roman Catholic Church ordained priests taught by the original Twelve and their successors,

Why is the word successors used there? Or does it mean each one had their own successors?

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“And when they had ordained to them priests in every church and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, in whom they believed.” ( Acts 14:22)

Priests? The word used in the original Greek is pres-boo'-ter-os and means "elders". That is how it has been translated in most of the Bible versions I have seen.

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And Paul tells Timothy not to “Neglect not the grace that is in thee [the authority to ordain priests], which was given thee by prophecy, with imposition of the hands of the priesthood.” (1 Tim 4:14)

1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Again except the Catholic Bible all other versions translates it as "presbytery" or "elders" and the word used in the original also means "elders".

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We know that the Kingdom is a priestly Kingdom of God promised to Moses on Mount Sinai,

I have already explained that a priestly kingdom is not one in which a priest is the ruler rather one in which we are all supposed to be priests.

You my friend have spoken about the importance of 12 Apostles. I never disagreed that they were important elders of the Church in the first place. The point of difference here is weather Peter was appointed the leader of the 12. You have not provided any arguments in that direction. The next point is weather the Church of that day is the RC you have not provided any arguments to that either.

What you have is to prove a long essay on many arguments on the importance of the 12 elders and trying to present that the false theory that the center of Christianity is "priests". I would suggest you take a look at the question again to remind yourself of the point of discussion we are having.

Let me also remind you that during the point of discussion I had asked a number of questions to which no answer has yet been provide by you.

inhisservice,
You surprised me. I did not know that you "were" a RC.
You mentioned some of the bad news about the RC which if you knew history well you would know that much of it is distorted, exaggerated, of is not true.
You failed to mention what the protestant did and in some cases are still doing to Catholics.
It is far worse than ANYTHING The Church did.
Believe me, that is true.
Your admission of "having been" a Catholic and what you are saying now tells me something about you.
I firmly believe that ANYONE who understands the Catholic Church and its teaching well will NEVER leave That Church of Jesus Christ.
So it tells me that a best you were Catholic in name only.
But if you were confirmed a Catholic then you swore an oath to ALWAYS be a Catholic and to stand by it, explain it, teach it, and raise your children in it.
Were you confirmed?
Once a true Catholic ALWAYS a true Catholic.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred

It is Finished OR Next Year in Jerusalem!

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Originally Posted by inhisservice

It is finished: John 19:30
If sacrifices are not required the priests have no office any more.

Vacuus Corpus! What! The Messiah dies on the Cross and it is finished, as in 'all over'? The Messiah's Kingdom died on the Cross too? He packed his bags, waved, mañana, adiós amigo! He hops a freight train to heaven, leaving us standing around with our hands in our pockets, looking at a bear piece of wood with empty crossarms? And this, after saying he would be with us always? “And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.” (Matthew 28:20). It seems to me you've got a fickled Jesus. And at the consummation of the world, do you look for jesus to be just as fickled there too?

Afterwards, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said: I thirst. Now there was a vessel set there, full of vinegar. And they, putting a sponge full of vinegar about hyssop, put it to his mouth. Jesus therefore, when he had taken the vinegar, said: It is consummated. And bowing his head, he gave up the ghost. (John 19:28-30)

I know, I know, the King James say translates this verse “It is finished”. 'Consummated' compared with 'finished' implies much the same thing. However, in the case of the Douay-Rheims seems to give a better sense of the consummation of a ceremony; which is precisely what is happening in John 19:30. It's that part of the ceremony that is performed once all requisite requirements have been concluded. In this case, the most holy of ALL consummations, the necessary fulfillment of all, not some, but all prophecy for the Messiah to claim and establish his Kingdom on earth. “It is finished?” To begin it anew, the prerequisite must always be finished first. “It is finished?” in order for the New Testament to begin, the Old must terminate. Christ tells us He has “come not to destroy, but to fulfill the law;" and so he did, and IT WAS FINISHED. The Sacrificial Lamb paid for all sins, IT WAS FINISHED; but then there is Next Year in Jerusalem! The New Kingdom!

IT IS FISNISHED? Like Psalm 29 that is often considered a Psalm of David at the commemoration of his Temple in Jerusalem. This wasn't the end of the tabernacle, but the beginning. This wasn't the termination of David's Priestly role, but the beginning.

Psalm 29:

Bring to the Lord, O you children of God: bring to the Lord the offspring of rams. Bring to the Lord glory and honour: bring to the Lord glory to his name: adore the Lord in his holy court. The voice of the Lord is upon the waters; the God of majesty has thundered, The Lord is upon many waters. The voice of the Lord is in power; the voice of the Lord in magnificence. The voice of the Lord breaks the cedars: yea, the Lord shall break the cedars of Libanus. And shall reduce them to pieces, as a calf of Libanus, and as the beloved son of unicorns. The voice of the Lord divides the flame of fire: The voice of the Lord shakes the desert: and the Lord shall shake the desert of Cades. The voice of the Lord prepares the stags: and he will discover the thick woods: and in his temple all shall speak his glory. The Lord makes the flood to dwell: and the Lord shall sit king for ever. The Lord will give strength to his people: the Lord will bless his people with peace.

The Imagery, allegories, and symbols used by the Psalter are culturally different today nonetheless they reach across some 3,600 years, reaching over a dozen different languages into our culture today. A culture that couldn't even begin to fathom life in antiquity; at the same time vastly different; a culture having magicians that can fly, turn lead to gold, snatch the breathlessness from dead, yet dumb as snake oil. (Have you ever tried to sell oil to a snake? - End indeed!).

The befuddlement on Psalms 29 can be eased a bit with the help of St. Augustine. Sung by David at the completion of the tabernacle, it perfects the temple. The first and second verses tell of the strength of God's mediator in the war against evil and sing his praises. (We'll just take his word for it - I suppose 'ram' is to give the sense of strength to the 'children of God', i.e. the faithful.) These aren't mere platitudes; remember the auspicious occasion where this is being sung. It could easily be described as a Divine dedication ceremony. For David the dedication of the greatest Temple the Jewish nation had seen – it was completed it in perfection.

The completion of Christ's ministry is more perfect. The auscultation of Protestants when they hear Christ's last words 'it is finished,' is to hear the gurgle to mean that no more can be done, work is done, shut the doors, go home, you can't add more to perfection. GO, GO and sin, sin, all you need do is 'believe'. What happens then, according to the non-Catholic, is the Kingdom of God, faith and the Mystical Body of Christ starts and ends here, the sacrifice is complete, priestly prayers and dedication are rolled up on a Cross; go home – cover-it-up, put-it-away, it's- too-hard-to-look-at type of faith. Is that 'Catholic'?

I DON'T THINK SO!! Every English version of the bible except the Douay-Rheims Bible uses the word “finished” as Christ's last utterance hanging on the tree. (KJV: “It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost”- in part this could be simply forcing the argument in your favor). Nevertheless yes, the Temple was finished in the sense that all the construction work had come to fruition, everything in its place, shined and spit-polished, ready for…ready for what? To FINISH, as in done or end? That doesn't make much sense; it's imbecilic. That's not a living faith now is it? That's a DEAD faith stuck on a tree some 2,000-years ago. The temple was “consummated,” as in finished to perfection and ready to go, i.e. perform its intended function. And in the Douay-Rheims we find the consummation of Christ hanging on the tree “And bowing his head, he gave up the ghost;” a faith consummated (brought to a state of perfection) ready to be LIVED – a rebirth in yet another nuance.

“The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven.” But the residence of God on earth, by Divine order continues in Moses' Kingdom, given over to a new tenant with a new 'lend lease' contract. If God is present on earth (and He is; as promised he is always with us, everyday in the Eucharist) then he must domicile in his Tabernacle and the contents of that Tabernacle must also be present. God promised Moses a Kingdom till the end of times, there is no scriptural reference to the nullification in so far as I know. This consummated Kingdom of David continues, this consummated Kingdom of Christ continues.

It was these that Christ was addressing when he spoke of the hypocritical Pharisee, not the faithful. However what Christ hands over the 'Key' of the Kingdom to a new tenant, today's Catholic Church; the all inclusive (Jew and gentile) Kingdom we call the Roman Catholic Church. Christ gave us something much better, not only did he give us meat to feed the hunger of the soul but he gave us 'bread' to feed our faith, a bread of hope (Hope is what? The Twelve Apostles are the loaves of hope, though devoured in with an unquenchable fire, continually replenished; still manna for a vision of God. (Luke 3:16-17)

What is this day of Passover? This is the day the Sacrificial Lamb is taken to the Temple in Jerusalem and surrendered to God. Passover occurs over several days, but the day Christ died was the day they took the perfect sacrifice to the Temple. In ceremony it is offered up in a holocaust, the meat and is taken home for the Seder. Seder is a ceremonial family dinner where Judah gives thanks for death passing over them liberating them from the Pharaoh Egypt. Leaven bread is removed from the house, only unleavened is permitted. On the final day they offer simple prayers to consummate the ceremonies. The prayers include a grace over ceremonial unleavened bread (we'll discuss another time but for now, the metaphor of bread is knowledge) and wine, terminating was a simple acknowledgement that the ceremony is FINSHED, and that they look forward for the Messiah to come Next Year in Jerusalem.

This is what Christ meant on the Cross; IT HAS JUST BEGUN! Next Year in Jerusalem!

JoeT

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Originally Posted by inhisservice

Was it not true that the RC tortured people for who rejected their ways?

No, it was not true.

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Was it not true that they burnt people (who tried to translate the Bible) at stake?

No, it was not true.

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If our Lord maintained peace when slapped on the face what gives the "Vicar of Christ" to punish?

You seem awful worried about people you don't know, couldn't or wouldn't understand their culture. It wouldn't matter if it were the slappee or the slapper. The cultures out of which all these criticisms came are so different from ours it's impossible to judge with modern sensibilities. Also, people thought quite differently about 'religion' than they do today. Word's meant things, and the ideas behind the words were used to differentiate communities, a different community was a potential enemy, Christian or otherwise.

Second, you could, you will never know who is right or wrong. But, think about this, what other Christian faith puts ALL their doctrine, ALL the writings of their Fathers and Doctors on the web for your inspection. She also has her history on the internet. Have you read it? If not how can you know who is right and who is wrong. You're not being just to the topic, to the Church or to yourself. Look in the book! And find the answer – with comments like those above you can't tell me you already have – these statements are terribly ignorant. What you got is a good case of brainwashing – and that's what they accuse me of! Ha!

RCIC or RCIA teacher must've stunk - but maybe the fault isn't with the teacher.

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It is obvious they were trying keep something at bay.

Right, it's all a 'Catholic Plot'! Keep telling yourself that. I never believed it, but I made it my business to find out as much 'truth' as this little pea brain could hold – I can't tell you I'm a genius, but what I can tell you is that the Protestants don't do history good - they tend to do the 're-wirte' thing. They usually can't go as far as 200 years back. Heck, they can't even get American history right! How well can we expect them to do with 2,000 years?

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Was it not true that they burnt people (who tried to translate the Bible) at stake?

Great balls of fire, boy! It didn't matter who it was; dem folks in dem days simply loved human torches. They lined their front lawns with'em. Christians burnt as bright as Romans, Greeks, or Hindus. It was the culture, that in many ways being confronted by the Roman Church; sometimes they added to things we find unconscionable today. Again, you can't judge people in antiquity by today's sensibilities.

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The tradition that the Apostles spoke of was the scripture based. Never did they deviate from the scripture. They had no tradition that was not scripturally supported and that is obvious from the scripture. But that is not the case with RC. Most of what they claim as tradition are not scriptural.

Really, then where did that bible you're reading come from? I'll tell ya; the Roman Catholic Church.

JoeT,
Did you read my question of the 4th cup posted here?
When Jesus said it is finished he was referring to His last supper in which He instituted the new covenant, the Eucharist.
He had just drank the fourth cup which finishes the traditional meal.
When you read the whole story as posted it the exegesis is clear.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by arcura

JoeT,
Did you read my question of the 4th cup posted here?
When Jesus said it is finished he was referring to His last supper in which He instituted the new covenant, the Eucharist.
He had just drank the fourth cup which finishes the traditional meal.
When you read the whole story as posted it the exegesis is clear.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Missed it. What is the post number? I'd like to look at it.

I found it. Great minds think alike.

"The Passover ceremony and ritual was not complete. There was no fourth cup. There was no announcement that it was finished. Could it be that Jesus was so upset with what He knew was about to happen that He forgot? " I knew of the 4 cup Jewish tradition at Passover, but never put the two toghter. Thanks much.

Joe,
I'm pleased that you got to look at that.
I got it from one of the best theologians in today's world, Dr. Scott Hahn.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Arcura

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You mentioned some of the bad news about the RC which if you knew history well you would know that much of it is distorted, exaggerated, of is not true.

On the contrary I don't believe that anything I said about the RC that is exaggerated. If you believe so please be kind enough to point out anything I said that was exaggerated.

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You failed to mention what the protestant did and in some cases are still doing to Catholics.

First of all a protestant is not a separate denomination. It is a general term used for non-catholics. Secondly I am not hear to present all the bad acts of the RC nor am I prove that some other church is better. All I am doing is only questioning the claim of authority of the RC which I believe is non-scriptural. So what someone is doing to the RC is not relevant to the topic of discussion.

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But if you were confirmed a Catholic then you swore an oath to ALWAYS be a Catholic and to stand by it, explain it, teach it, and raise your children in it.

That would mean be a slave of it. I am aware that, that is what RC requires of us and I was confirmed. But I studied in the Bible that when one becomes a Christian he/she is freed from all bondages and is made a slave to Christ. A Christian is enslaved only to Christ.

inhisservice,
I also studied the bible as a Protestant and to prove the Catholic Church was wrong.
I found out that it was I and what I had been taught who was wrong.
I also studied real true history no more of what Catholic bashers wrote for they had an axe to grind. I wanted the real stuff form true historians.
The more I learned the more I really understood what the Catholic Church was and stood for.
I suspect that your Catholic teachers were not good ones if you did not really understand The Church and the God who established it and guides it to this very day.
No I'm not a slave to the Church I am a willing and dedicated servant to God Almighty and His Church.
That means I am free, free from the clutches of Satan and his devils.
Free from being lead away from God's Holy Church.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by inhisservice

That would mean be a slave of it

Too true, too true, like a man who becomes a slave to his betrothed, or his wife (hopefully not both at the same time); freed from the Law of the Pharisee only to be enslaved by Christ’s chains of the Law of Charity. A slave like a little boy or girl is a slave to the love for his mom and dad. Yep, a slave. Too true, a slave for sure.

JoeT

Fred, et al;

More on Passover:

Passover occurs on the 15th day Nissan. It's one of three festivals in Jewish tradition having historical and agricultural significance, Pesach (Passover), Shavu'ot and Sukkot. This year the Jewish Passover begins at sunset on March 29, 2010 and ends at nightfall April 6. To the Catholic it is a celebration of life and the 'Real Presence' of Christ. To the Jew Passover is the observances of the Exodus from Egypt (see Exodus Chpts. 1-15) with the religious observances are outlined in Chapter 12 of the book of Exodus. Its name is derived from root Pei-Smekh-Chet which means to “pass over” or “to spare.” To escape God's judgment over Egypt Moses and Aaron told the Israelis people to sacrifice an unblemished one-year old male lamb on the 14th day of Nissan. The blood of the sacrifice was painted on the side posts and header of the doors entering the house. The sacrifice lamb is then to be eaten with unleavened bread and lettuce (I'm sure the lettuce has some significance, but at this time I'm at a loss). The entire lamb, entrails and all are to be consumed; nothing is to remain by the morning of the next day. Any morsels left over are to be consumed by fire. Then the people of Israel are to be ready to travel. The blood was a sign that the plague should pass over the house, sparing the inhabitants from God's justice. All generations thereafter are to observe and keep this day in solemnity. “And the same day the Lord brought forth the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their companies.” (Exodus 12:51)

Today, this observance is kept by practicing Jews much the same way Moses commanded, the same way David celebrated Pesach, the same way Christ observed Passover, and the same way the Messianic Jew celebrates the sacrifice of the unblemished Lamb of God. The Messianic Jew today will celebrate the Seter with Tzafun (eating of the afikoman – “dessert” – don't worry it's not a sweet, it's a piece of unleavened bread) and Kos Shlishi (drinking of the 2nd cup) conjoined with communion remembering the Real Presence of Yeshua ('Jesus' in Aramaic). Catholics ought to feel right at home with this observance. But, that part that is specifically Jewish is found in 15 different steps.

In the order of the Seder, First is the Kaddesh: Sanctification and blessings over the first chalice. Kaddesh is the sanctifying blessing referring to always remembering the custom rituals commanded in the Exodus story. You keep the Kaddesh by refraining from immorality, being faithful to the customs. The second cup is filled after the blessing but before the ritual washing. Second is the Ur'chatz, or a ritual washing before the meal. There are many customs but most do not recite prayers or blessings at this point. The third step is the Karpas, simply the 'appetizer'. Fourth, Yachatz, is the breaking of the matzah. I'm told matzah is a unleavened bread similar in texture to a salted cracker. Three matzot (plural for matzah – I think) are staked in the middle of the table. The center piece of bread is broken in half, the large piece is hidden which becomes the afikoman or dessert. The smaller piece is returned to the table. By the way the Seder Table decorations rival the decorations found around the Easter Dinner Table.

Fifth, is the Maggid, that part of the Seter ceremonies retelling of the flight and freedom from Egypt with the bread of affliction whch is the matzot. Sixth, the Rachtzah, is the second washing and blessing in preparation of eating the matzah. Seventh, the Mtzi, which is the blessing over the breads and grains being served during the meal. Eighth, Matzah is another blessing over the matzah and small pieces of the matzah are eaten. Ninth, Maror, is the blessing over a bitter vegetable, such as horseradish, to represent the bitterness of slavery. Tenth, Korekh, the paschal offering is eaten with matzah and the bitter vegetable, resembling a sandwich. The blessing is said over the third cup while eating the pascchal offering (I think). Today, in the Jewish household there is no paschal sacrifice and a substitute is made.Eleventh, Shulchan Orekh, is the main meal traditionally beginning with a hard-boiled egg. Paschal offering, Easter eggs, it's beginning to be a lot like Easter, isn't it? Twelveth, Tzafun, which is the piece of bread that was broken off earlier in the eventing. Thirteenth, Barekh , is a grace said after the meal. Fourteenth, Hallel, songs and praises , Psalms 113-114 and Psalms 114-118, with the final Psalm 136, “Praise the Lord, for he is good: for his mercy endures for ever.” Fifteenth and finally, Nirtzah which is the closing blessings, “Mighty is He”, an Aramaic song, ending the Passover Seder; some believe the song is symbolically recalls God's promise to return them to Israel. Finally, 'it is finished”, the Seder is over “Next year in Jerusalem!”

The similarities between Christ's life and mission leading up to the Cross are uncannily clear in the Passover Seder. Present and the focal point is the Paschal Lamb. The unleavened bread, is representative of the Twelve Loaves of the Presence Bread, the bread of knowledge, the Twelve Apostles. Have I shown the relationship between The Twelve, The Twelve Loaves of Proposition, and the revealed knowledge of God's revelation?

JoeT

Not necessarily, the person who says it might be Orthodox Christian, so he might be referring to... you have to go by the context.

The one true church is the universal body of believers everwhere who have given their hearts to Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.
That is the only true church. Eph. 1:22 & 23 & Col. 1:18 & 19
The bible teaches us that we must maintain the unity of the Spirit
Until we come into unity of faith. Eph. 4:13
When you are looking for a church home, the first thing to do is to
Ask the Lord to guide you. Ask Him where He wants you. Find a church that is true to the Bible, one where the people love Jesus Christ and serve Him as Lord. Are the doctrine, teaching, and practice of the church in accordance with the Word of God? Do the members try to live out the doctrine they profess? If you find those characteristics and a warm fellowship, the church may be for you.

Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

Joe,
Yes you have.
Very good.
Another demonstration that the Catholic Church is God's Holy Church on earth.
Fred

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Originally Posted by arcura

Joe,
Yes you have.
Very good.
Another demonstration that the Catholic Church is God's Holy Church on earth.
Fred

Unbelievable!:rolleyes::o
How insulting can you get to everybody that is not from your religion!

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Originally Posted by arcura

Joe,
Yes you have.
Very good.
Another demonstration that the Catholic Church is God's Holy Church on earth.
Fred

You are not into being inclusive, are you? People who have to keep making such statements, Fred, show considerable insecurity.

450donn and paraclete...
I spoke the truth as I believe and know it.
It is a matter of personal conviction that comes from all I went through to prove that the Catholic Church was wrong and then finding out that what I thought and had been taught was very wrong.
All my friends and blood relatives were and are Protestant except for my aunt who eventually became a Catholic.
They thought I had gone nuts.
Now, after many years, they finally accept that I'm not crazy and that I did what I thought was best.
Praise God for that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

JoeT777

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The Sacrificial Lamb paid for all sins, IT WAS FINISHED;

I believe I typed "Christ has done everything we need to be saved." That is the same thing you have elaborated. Moreover why do you mock? Mocking is what atheists do when they are not able to answer any issue. I don't expect that form a Christian. A Christian is supposed to maintain a humble heart. "It is finished" just means the task is accomplished. I thought that was obvious. You have wasted your time in typing such a big article about something that is obvious.

I have already explained that Jesus after He ascended to heaven came back to dwell in us as the HOLY Spirit. That should explain it all.

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GO, GO and sin, sin, all you need do is ‘believe’.

That was very offences to a Bible believing Christian has this attitude. Is it beyond your capacity to speak offensively?

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“The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven.” But the residence of God on earth, by Divine order continues in Moses’ Kingdom, given over to a new tenant with a new ‘lend lease’ contract. If God is present on earth (and He is; as promised he is always with us, everyday in the Eucharist) then he must domicile in his Tabernacle and the contents of that Tabernacle must also be present.

First of all provide scriptural backup for your claims. Where did God promise that He would always be with us in the Eucharist? Also do you mean to say that God is with us only in Eucharist? By the way you have still not commented on the Holy Spirit? Where is that third person of the trinity? Is God not present where the Holy Spirit is? I hope you don't ignore these questions as you have done to my other questions, and instead address them.

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Kingdom we call the Roman Catholic Church. Christ gave us something much better, not only did he give us meat to feed the hunger of the soul but he gave us ‘bread’ to feed our faith, a bread of hope (Hope is what? The Twelve Apostles are the loaves of hope, though devoured in with an unquenchable fire, continually replenished; still manna for a vision of God. (Luke 3:16-17)

This makes absolutely no sense at all and the verse speaks nothing you have typed. Either you are fully confused or are unable express yourself clearly. I would be happy if you explain that paragraph better.

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No, it was not true.

Rejecting the obvious history.

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But, think about this, what other Christian faith puts ALL their doctrine, ALL the writings of their Fathers and Doctors on the web for your inspection.

Those documents are all man made. Scripture has been inspired and protect by out Lord. Which of these should one trust?

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She also has her history on the internet.

And you seriously believe that they are going to put in all of their own blunders there? Surely they would edit it out. Besides the history of the RC is well known anyway.

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What you got is a good case of brainwashing

Then everyone learning history is brainwashed against RC.

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Protestants don’t do history good - they tend to do the 're-wirte' thing.

Protestants re-wrote history?? I did not know that they were the ones writing history!! Please have a serious discussion here.

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Great balls of fire, boy! It didn’t matter who it was; dem folks in dem days simply loved human torches. They lined their front lawns with’em. Christians burnt as bright as Romans, Greeks, or Hindus. It was the culture, that in many ways being confronted by the Roman Church; sometimes they added to things we find unconscionable today. Again, you can’t judge people in antiquity by today’s sensibilities.

So in some culture burning at stake is okay? That was a criminal offence and you can't excuse it with culture. It is wrong whatever is the culture.

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Really, then where did that bible you’re reading come from? I’ll tell ya; the Roman Catholic Church.

So?

Arcura

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It is a matter of personal conviction that comes from all I went through to prove that the Catholic Church was wrong and then finding out that what I thought and had been taught was very wrong.
All my friends and blood relatives were and are Protestant except for my aunt who eventually became a Catholic.
They thought I had gone nuts.
Now, after many years, they finally accept that I'm not crazy and that I did what I thought was best.

That does not mean anything. I could say this:

It is a matter of personal conviction that comes from all I went through to prove that the Catholic Church was right and then finding out that what I thought and had been taught was very wrong. So I went out of it. All my friends and blood relatives were and are Catholics except for my father who eventually came out from it.
They thought I had gone nuts.
Now, after many years, they finally accept that I'm not crazy and that I did what I thought was best.

So Fred, by your comments here and on some other posts I am understanding that you are saying that the Roman Catholic Church is the ONLY organization that preaches the true word of God! This sort of insensitivity is not only downright wrong it is an insult to the Christians that frequent this board. No wonder there has been so many Christians that have simply given up and left. Comments like this from members of the RCC have been protected for as long as I have been on here and now I fully understand. This forum is NOT a Christianity forum, but a blatant RCC forum to the exclusion of all others.