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Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
I have no idea from where the Egyptians came unless there were from Ham.
P{eace and kindness,
Fred.

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Fred, your honesty is a valued feature in truth.

When God sent Abraham out from his kindred and his father's house we are told in scripture he headed into the land of Canaan refer: (Genesis 12:5)
Genesis 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
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Canaan was the (lowland), relative to Ham and the progenitor of Phoemicians. And various nations who were located in the seacoat of Palestine. Canaan was the descendants called Canaanites, The Poeni or Phoenicia. (they spoke hebrew tongue)
In (Zeph 2:5) the southern area was relative to the Cherethites, who were Gentiles, and again showing the lineage to Ham. (remember these were to be servants to the lineage to the house of David because of the curse Noah issued to Ham's son Canaan )

In the journey Abraham passed through Sichem to a plain known as Moreh where the Canaanites were refer: (Genesis 12:6)

East was Bethel = Border of the tribe of Benjamin south of Judah.
West Hai was the city of Ammonites.
South was Egypt where the Egyptains were, and the land had it's name known by the son of Ham , Mizraim.

Keep in mind 2 tribes (Benjamin and Judah) were divided from the 10 tribe known as Israelites.

Take note to refer: Deu 2:20-23 That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead: As he did to the children of Esau, which dwelt in Seir, when he destroyed the Horims from before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead even unto this day: And the Avims which dwelt in Hazerim, [even] unto Azzah, the Caphtorims, which came forth out of Caphtor, destroyed them, and dwelt in their stead.)

sndbay, Thanks much for putting that together so understandably.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred can you understand that, it confuses the timelines talking about two of the tribes in the same context as Abraham

paraclete,
Yes, I can.
But it is clear to me that several different peoples came from the lineage of Abraham.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by arcura

But it is clear to me that several different peoples came from the lineage of Abraham.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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What is meant when you speak of different people? and what different people? Do you mean later in years when David's weakness was in strange women?

Abraham's lineage was from the generations of Shem. These would be God's chosen people, Israelites.

Post #67

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Originally Posted by sndbay

(Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.) These are the generations of Shem (Genesis 11:10)

Through Noah's son Shem, came the generations of Terah, and Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot. Then long after continued the generation of Jacob, who is the son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham (Genesis25:26) God changed Jocob's name to Israel (Genesis 32:28) The 12 Tribes of Israel are of Jacob (Genesis 49:28)

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sndbay,
The lineage of Abraham is several thousand years long and complex with many marriages.
{Peace and kindness,
Fred

Yeah he had at least two different lineages from Hagar and Sara.

N0help4u,
Yes that is true, plus those farther down the line from those two women.
Fred

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

yeah he had at least two different lineages from Hagar and Sara.

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Yep the generations of Ishmael from the maid Hagar and Abraham (Genesis 25:12)


Genesis 25:16 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Yep the generations of Ishmael from the maid Hagar and Abraham (Genesis 25:12)


Genesis 25:16 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.

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Biblical Historian tell us that the lineage of Ishmael are Muslims.

Triund,
You are right although Ishmael was a son of Abraham
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triund

Biblical Historian tell us that the lineage of Ishmael are Muslims.

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I trust it was his 7th son, Dumah who is credited as being the founder of the Ishmaelite.
The sons were:

Ishmael
Nebajoth (people called Nabateans)
Kedar
Adbeel
Mibsam (family Simeon)
Mishma
Dumah (founder of Ishmaelite)
Massa
Hador
Tema
Jetur
Naphish
Kedemah

Please tell us more of the lineage if you will and please refer: scripture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

I trust it was his 7th son, Dumah who is credited as being the founder of the Ishmaelite.
The sons were:

Ishmael
Nebajoth (people called Nabateans)
Kedar
Adbeel
Mibsam (family Simeon)
Mishma
Dumah (founder of Ishmaelite)
Massa
Hador
Tema
Jetur
Naphish
Kedemah

Please tell us more of the lineage if you will and please refer: scripture.

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Thanks for making it more specific. I had come to know about this from my Uncle. He is a well read man. I did not go in detail with him on this.

Today whatever we know about the Bible and Jesus is also from some historians who have been very faithful and true to our Lord God and brought the facts to people. There is also lot of bluff around, but all historians are not crooks. About a decade ago there was a main article in Time Magazine on Abraham as father of Jews, Christians and Muslims. Wish I had preserved that magazine. I wonder if anybody has read that article.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triund

Thanks for making it more specific. I had come to know about this from my Uncle. He is a well read man. I did not go in detail with him on this.

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I find it all interesting, and enjoy more in depth study on the nations, tribes, and descendant of Adam and Eve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triund

Today whatever we know about the Bible and Jesus is also from some historians who have been very faithful and true to our Lord God and brought the facts to people. There is also lot of bluff around, but all historians are not crooks. About a decade ago there was a main article in Time Magazine on Abraham as father of Jews, Christians and Muslims. Wish I had preserved that magazine. I wonder if anybody has read that article.

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I would like to view details on the kinship of The Jews, separate from the Christians.

In scripture refer of (Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes) This is speaking of Paul , who was born a Jew (Acts 22:3)

It was God's intention to have HIS begotten Son, Jesus, born into a certain tribe by HIS birth being in Bethlemhem of Judaea (in a narrower sense, to the southern portion of Palestine lying on this side of the Jordan and the Dead Sea, to distinguish it from Samaria, Galilee, Peraea, and Idumaea) And it is written Christ was born as King of the Jews ](Matthew 1:2) remaining relative to the House of David... So Jesus was registered and born within the Jewish nation but was also separate from that as a Christian called a Nazarene.

A Jew is one born of the kingdom of Judah ( 2 Kings 16:6 - 25:25) and in the later Hebrew, after the carry away of the 10 tribes , it was applied to all Israelites. (Jer 32:12 - 38:19 - 34:9 )

The Pharisaios sert seems to have started after the Jewish exile.. They recognised in oral tradition a standard of belief and life. They sought for distinction and praise by outward observance of external rites and by outward forms of piety, and such as ceremonial washings, fastings, and prayers.

And when we read that which was of Apostle John in his day he looked upon the Jew as a body of men hostile to Christainity, with whom he had come to see that both he and all true Christians had nothing in common as respects to religious matters, even in his record of life of Jesus not only himself makes a distinction between the Jews and Jesus, but ascibes to Jesus and his apostles language in which they distinction themselves from the Jews, as though the later time frame reference: ( John 11:8) sprang from an alien race. John spoke of how opposed to his divine Master, were the rulers, priests, members of Sanhedrin, Pharisees, and never did John hesitate to tell of the whole nation's hatred toward Jesus.

Facts and record for the benefit of all of us to understand what can appear as part of life, may be sown in by deception.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triund

Did anybody read any commentary or any book on males and females created before Adam? Who were these man and woman? Is there any mention of these people, other than when Cain was given a mark to protect him from that "every one that findeth me shall slay me"(Genesis 4:14)?

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This question is definite interesting when we know that Cain's descendants are the Kenites, and the Kenites are spoken of after the flood of Noah as being present as Moses wife was a Kenite. The tribe of Moses, father-in-law were all Kenites.

sndbay,
Thanks much for that.
Fred