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Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
To answer your question......
Only God Knows for sure.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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That is right Fred, and God told us in His word that we those who are saved are given assurance of salvation.

I have assurance of salvation.

Fred, you may want to talk to Scott - he appears to be aware that assurance of salvation is part of the gospel.

From the parable of the seeds where Jesus spoke of those who believed, but some had their faith strangled by the cares of this world and so subjectively "lost" what Jesus won for them.

We are told to make our faith more firm and other such phrases to indicate that we need to be on guard. The vicarious atonement of Christ DOES NOT CHANGE. What could change is a person's disinterest or despising of what He accomplished for us.

Col 1:21-23

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith , established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.
NIV

Rev 2:12-13

These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword. 13 I know where you live — where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city — where Satan lives.
NIV

Again I feel the need to throw away my Bible since the Decree supersedes the Bible on salvation.

I think I may start a new post on Bible verses to throw away and do it verse by verse instead of just throwing the entire thing away at once

I guess I start with

King James Bible
Rom 1:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

And
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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Originally Posted by saintjoan

To TJ3
Bible believing Christians, will often quote the Holy Bible to justify their assurance of salvation, quoting verses such as:
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

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Good verse

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Therefore Arcura cannot know with certainty that he is going to heaven.

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I feel sorry for him.

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And if you know that you are going to heaven, then you are going to hell, for anyone who knows that they are going to heaven is accursed.

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That sounds like the Mormon view - those who go to heaven spend eternity in "everlasting burnings":)

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Originally Posted by saintjoan

To TJ3
Bible believing Christians, will often quote the Holy Bible to justify their assurance of salvation, quoting verses such as:
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The fundamentalists are willingly ignorant that such a teaching is in fact a damnable heresy. For the church (Roman Catholic) teaches:
If any one saith, that a man, who is born again and justified, is bound of faith to believe that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; let him be anathema.
Council of Trent, Canon XV of the Decree on Justification
If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end, unless he have learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema.
Council of Trent, Canon XVI of the Decree on Justification

Correcting the heretical views expressed by the Apostle John.

Therefore Arcura cannot know with certainty that he is going to heaven.

And if you know that you are going to heaven, then you are going to hell, for anyone who knows that they are going to heaven is accursed.

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Did Elijah go to heaven or hell?

Kings 2 9 And when they were gone over, Elias said to Eliseus: Ask what thou wilt have me to do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Eliseus said: I beseech thee that in me may be thy double spirit.

And did St. Paul go to heaven or hell?
2 Timothy 4 8 As to the rest, there is laid up for me a crown of justice, which the Lord the just judge will render to me in that day: and not only to me, but to them also that love his coming. Make haste to come to me quickly.

I believe they both went to heaven and they both knew beforehand that they would go to heaven.

The Church teaching is thus:

CHAPTER XII.

That a rash presumptuousness in the matter of Predestination is to be avoided.

No one, moreover, so long as he is in this mortal life, ought so far to presume as regards the secret mystery of divine predestination, as to determine for certain that he is assuredly in [40] the number of the predestinate; as if it were true, that he that is justified, either cannot sin any more, or, if he do sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance; for except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God hath chosen unto Himself.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by Tj3

That sounds like the Mormon view - those who go to heaven spend eternity in "everlasting burnings":)

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Sounds as though they have one thing right. After all, we will be with God and God is a consuming Fire. Is He not?

Sincerely,

De Maria

And if you know that you are going to heaven, then you are going to hell, for anyone who knows that they are going to heaven is accursed.

What?? Where did this come from?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

That is right Fred, and God told us in His word that we those who are saved are given assurance of salvation.

I have assurance of salvation.

Fred, you may want to talk to Scott - he appears to be aware that assurance of salvation is part of the gospel.

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Scott seems to be a knowledgeable Catholic. Therefore I agree with him that we are assured of salvation if we persevere to th end.

In the same vein, I know that Fred believes he will go to heaven if he remains in God's grace.

We certainly do hope and are assured of salvation but we are not our judge, it is Christ who judges though our conscience be clear:
1 Corinthians 4 4 For I am not conscious to myself of any thing, yet am I not hereby justified; but he that judgeth me, is the Lord.

The difference between Catholics and Protestants is that Protestants preach a general absolute assurance of salvation. But that contradicts Scripture:

Heb 10 29 How much more, do you think he deserveth worse punishments, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath esteemed the blood of the testament unclean, by which he was sanctified, and hath offered an affront to the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said: Vengeance belongeth to me, and I will repay. And again: The Lord shall judge his people.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Then I wonder why you argue so about the word.

What is important is that through the gospel of Jesus Christ, we can have assurance of salvation, and we need not worry about losing our salvation.

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I agree with what you've said. As long as you don't preach once saved always saved and absolute assurance of salvation.

I don't worry about losing my salvation as long as I do the will of God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Sounds as though they have one thing right. After all, we will be with God and God is a consuming Fire. Is He not?

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Did you ever take that verse out of context.

Deut 9:3-4
3 "Therefore understand today that the LORD your God is He who goes over before you as a consuming fire. He will destroy them and bring them down before you; so you shall drive them out and destroy them quickly, as the LORD has said to you.
NKJV

So you expect to be in the consuming fire of God? I am sorry to hear that. I plan to be in heaven.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Scott seems to be a knowledgeable Catholic. Therefore I agree with him that we are assured of salvation if we persevere to th end.

In the same vein, I know that Fred believes he will go to heaven if he remains in God's grace.

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John 10:29-30
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one."
NKJV

God's grace or the grace of the Roman Catholic denomination?

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The difference between Catholics and Protestants is that Protestants preach a general absolute assurance of salvation. But that contradicts Scripture:

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I am not a protestant, but apparently the protestants have it right.

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Heb 10 29 How much more, do you think he deserveth worse punishments, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath esteemed the blood of the testament unclean, by which he was sanctified, and hath offered an affront to the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said: Vengeance belongeth to me, and I will repay. And again: The Lord shall judge his people.

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This refers to people who reject Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. They end up in everlasting burnings.

Rev 20:9-10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
NKJV

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Did you ever take that verse out of context.

Deut 9:3-4
3 "Therefore understand today that the LORD your God is He who goes over before you as a consuming fire. He will destroy them and bring them down before you; so you shall drive them out and destroy them quickly, as the LORD has said to you.
NKJV

So you expect to be in the consuming fire of God? I am sorry to hear that. I plan to be in heaven.

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As I understand it, seraphims are an order of angels in closest proximity to God in heaven.

Seraphims literally means "burning ones" in the Hebrew (Sarap, 'to burn'). A word of the same spelling is used of snakes (e.g. Isaiah 30v6), misleading some to think them serpent-guardians. The word 'serapim' Isaiah uses has no definite article; it is a description not a title. Note also how their ministry to Isaiah involves 'burning'. [2]
Seraph - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And remember these words of Christ:
Matthew 22 30 For in the resurrection they shall neither marry nor be married; but shall be as the angels of God in heaven.

Don't be scared. When we go to heaven we will be in God's fire but we won't be consumed:
Exodus 3 2 And the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he saw that the bush was on fire and was not burnt.

It seems to me that Scripture is telling us that the Consuming Fire of God is Heaven.

Psalm 18 7 His going out is from the end of heaven, And his circuit even to the end thereof: and there is no one that can hide himself from his heat.

Exodus 24 17 And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like a burning fire upon the top of the mount, in the eyes of the children of Israel.

Matthew 3 11 I indeed baptize you in the water unto penance, but he that shall come after me, is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; he shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire.

Acts 2 1 And when the days of the Pentecost were accomplished, they were all together in one place: 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a mighty wind coming, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them parted tongues as it were of fire, and it sat upon every one of them: 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,

Isaias 6 6 And one of the seraphims flew to me, and in his hand was a live coal, which he had taken with the tongs off the altar. 7 And he touched my mouth, and said: Behold this hath touched thy lips, and thy iniquities shall be taken away, and thy sin shall be cleansed.

Yessir! I can't wait to be touched by God's cleansing fire.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by De Maria

As I understand it, seraphims are an order of angels in closest proximity to God in heaven.

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Stay on topic - we are not discussing seraphims.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Stay on topic - we are not discussing seraphims.

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We're discussing how hot is heaven. If the angels in heaven are described as burning ones (i.e. Seraphims), then it must be pretty hot.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

We're discussing how hot is heaven. If the angels in heaven are described as burning ones (i.e. Seraphims), then it must be pretty hot.

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Stay on topic. The names of angels have nothing to do with whether heaven is a place of everlasting fire.

Oh my brain is beginning to hurt!!

Consuming fire is not literal it is figurative and what does it have to do with angels??

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Stay on topic.

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You brought up the topic of God's consuming fire. Go back and read the messages.

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The names of angels have nothing to do with whether heaven is a place of everlasting fire.

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The names of angels are a description. The Seraphims are the burning ones because of their proximity to God.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

oh my brain is beginning to hurt!!!

Consuming fire is not literal it is figurative and what does it have to do with angels???

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The Seraphim are thus named because they are the burning ones. Since they are also the angels closest in proximity to God, I infer from their name that they are thus named because of their proximity to the Consuming Fire.

So if it is burning in hell so we want to avoid that then what is the difference of being in heaven to 'escape' the fire? We haven't escaped fire then have we?

What MAKES you think consuming fire is literal instead of figurative?

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Originally Posted by De Maria

You brought up the topic of God's consuming fire. Go back and read the messages.

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Actually, no. I mentioned the heresy of the Mormon teaching of heaven being "everlasting burnings" in response to one of saintjoan's messages. You then brought up the mention of God as a consuming fire, which refers to how He destroys those who are enemies of Him.

And yet you seem to think that is where you are going.