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He loved us even before we loved him. He knew us before we were born, so I can't understand why we were born in sin.Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedhelpfast
I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to understand why you believe it is a fact, that we were born in sin.
Because if Christians aren't made to believe they are born wretched, worthless, and unworthy of heaven, it would put churches out of business, that's why!Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Mae
Seriously, I think it has to do with inherited sin from Adam & Eve. Are you of the opinion that humans are NOT born of sin? You'd be in the minority of Christians that I know. Unless I have you confused with someone else. You ARE a believer, right Donna?
OK donna I could definitely see how you could have a hard time believing or seeing that we are born in sin. Ti just basically boils down to what you believe. Since I believe in the bible, I believe that when adam ate the fruit that God specifically told him not to, this is when sin enter the world. Does that help?
I to believe that sin started with Adam, but why does that mean that a baby is born in sin? God said to Eve, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing," and to Adam, "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life."
lobrobster, Yes it is true, I do not believe that humans are born in sin. And yes, I am very much a believer. Jesus is the only way to heaven. I also believe that the Bible is the only true word of God, which makes it hard for me to believe that we are born in sin. Just wondering where you read this in God's word?
romans 5:12- the rest of the chapter. A good example of this is, its pretty crazy but my little sister who is only two, knows how to lie and not tell the truth. I mean no one had to teach her how to do it, she already has the nature of sin to do it
Does this mean that a baby will go to Hell if he dies in infancy?Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedhelpfast
I've never read the bible, but am in the process of searching for which one to buy and read (if you have any suggestions on which bible I should get, I'd be grateful). But for now, I'm being 'coached' on the bible and the ways of Christian belief. I'm trying to learn more about 'faith' in general. Someone whom I respect very much as being not only a good Christian, but also very knowledgeable about the bible, insists we are all born of sin. We all inherit the original sin of Adam & Eve. Do you interpret the bible differently Donna? Are you saying that we've already paid the price for original sin by toiling for our food and painful childbirth?Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Mae
I do not believe in god but I do good everyday or I like to think so so I bring my children up with manners and they are very loving.
My parents are foster carers and I ofter have there children thinking of fostering myself.
I have eldery neighbours who I often help with shopping etc.
And I do not drink or gamble I know I do good in my life nad do not need some god to tell me that.
Maybe we should see the other side of the question, Can a christian do bad? The answer still comes up yes! And unlike the originalquestion, there is plenty of proof of that.
As humans we have different ideas, and interpretations, and points of view. It seems this is a question for God, and speculating, and giving opinions, is a nice debate, but it's the God you believe in, that has the final say. Just my opinion. Being of no particular religion, and loyal to no bible, with all due respect to those that are, I could not follow any thing man has put forth, no matter where they say it comes from, I can try to be good, as I can be, today, here and now, and trust the God that I understand knows that. I also believe, just me, that segregating ones self, and cursing all other who do not agree, is wrong in the eyes of the Creator, as there is only one, God, and one race, human, and we should be all working together and sharing, and congregating, not fighting wars against each other, in the name of your God or mine. That's ludichrist, and entirely mans doing. So tolerance, respect, and love, is all we should be pontificating. Not cursing one another because of what book you read from, or what day you deem is holy. So close your minds to all, but your way, if you must, but it will be up to OUR maker to decide, whether your right or not, I choose to listen, and then decide, because that's what I choose to do with MY God given choice. Whatever your decision, I ain't mad atcha. I pray for you, just as you pray for me, seems that's a good thing. Isn't it?Quote:
Can a non-Christian truly do good in the sight of God? Why or why not?
Thank you 4 sharing your piece.
After all this web sites main purpose is so that we can learn from each other
Reading through many of the prior responses leads me to believe there are many who misunderstand the concept of Original Sin…Sin occurred first in the spirit realm before its introduction on earth. For unknown ages full harmony with God prevailed in the universe. Disruption came through a spirit creature referred to simply as the Resister, Adversary (Heb. Sa•tan´; Gr. Sa•ta•nas´; Job 1:6; Ro 16:20), the principal False Accuser or Slanderer (Gr. Di•a´bo•los) of God. (Heb 2:14; Re 12:9) Hence, the apostle John says: “He who carries on sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning.”—1Jo 3:8.
As we know from reading Gods word the Bible Satan lied and tempted the free will God bestowed on Adam and Eve and they sinned…which means, Everlasting life for Adam, Eve and their descendents was revoked and death (Sin in this particular sense) was the wages of that sin. Death with old age and all that accompanies it was passed on to mankind.
Right and god never intended hell for humans only satan and his demons, but since man sinned we are cursed with it
First, I thought satan was once in the good graces of God? Also, exactly what was it about the temptation of eating an apple that was so sinful? Why couldn't God have waited at least until a murder took place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
If God never intended for humans to sin, why did He put a forbidden tree in the garden? Personally, I think it was a set up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedhelpfast
Entrapment. That's not nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by lobrobster
The common tradition as to the apple's being the forbidden fruit of Eden is without any Scriptural basis whatsoever.
Angels as well as Humans were given the gift of free-will; some people simply choose bad behavior over good.
That is exactly how I understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
Satan wasn't an angel either.
Children are born innocent and if they die in infancy they are in Heaven no matter who their parents were.
Sin entered the world through one man, Adam, and death through sin. But through God's grace the gift of Jesus Christ, our sins can be washed away.
Ezekiel 18:20 Tells us the son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son.
Matthew 18:1-7
The disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" He called a little child and had him stand among them. And He said, "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."
"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."
"Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!"
James 1:13-18
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown gives birth to death.
(When we let desires take over our lives, that's when sin is conceived, not in the womb or in heaven. Every good thing is from God, sin is from man.)
He chose to give us birth through the 'word of truth', that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all He created. We are the firstfruits, the very best of His creation. I can't believe that birth through the 'word of truth' could have sin.
Therefore I also could never believe that a baby or child would go to hell if they died. Their angel is always looking at God.
"This child is greatest in th kingdom of heaven."
lobrobster--Sorry to hear that you have never read the Bible. That's the only way to find the answers to the questions we have about God and life after our time on this earth is over. Please don't depend on anyone to tell you what you need to believe, that includes me also (we all need help understanding God's word, but we need to read it ourselves too).
There are too many different beliefs in this world, but there is only one God and one way to learn the truth. Read and study God's word.
You asked about Bibles. My favorite Bible is the King James Version, but for studying I also use the New International Version. The problem with the NIV is that they leave out some scriptures, but the one I have includes these omitted scriptures in footnotes.
talaniman--
I hope you don't believe that I am cursing anyone, because that is definitely not my intention. God says to teach humbly and with kindness. So if I have offended anyone, I am sorry.
I do believe that my job for God is to inform anyone I can, about our loving Savior, and hopefully that's all I am doing. I can only inform, God makes the increase.
Praying for anyone and everyone is a good thing.
I agree with you Donna Mae. I don't believe anyone is born with sins of anyone else. But because of the sin of Adam and Eve I believe we are born with a sinful nature. But I believe that an infant, child or mentally handicapped person still needs saving grace. They obviously don't have the ability to not only know they must except Jesus as their savior, but they don't understand it/comprehend it either. That being said though... I still believe it is by God's grace that they go to heaven. Meaning they need grace like the rest of us.
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As far as the tree of knowledge of good and evil goes... I can't stress enough for people to stop putting so much emphasis on the actual tree. People think of the sin as simply eating from the tree, "why is eating from a tree so bad, why would eating from a tree be a sin?" This is putting entirely too much emphasis on the tree.
The sin was disobeying God by means of eating from the tree.
Can a non-Christian do good?
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Why not? What do you think makes you so special as Christian that only you as Christian can do good?
What about religious wars like the CRUSADES? Were they "GOOD"?
What about the Christian INQUISITION? Was that "GOOD"?
What about other historical religious persecutions by Christians? Was that "GOOD"?
Is the basis of your question not rather full of religious haughtiness, totally sidestepping the mountain of Christian wrongdoing?
I ask myself where I can do good. Not where or why others can't.
It seems to me you are on the wrong track!
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