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That's a very true statement. We must come to learn that HE is the reward, and we can know Him now and have great joy and peace even now. The faithfulness, greatness, glory, and life-changing power of Christ seems to me to be the message the church needs to preach endlessly.Quote:
Knowing Jesus is a learning process.
Somebody once said: "I have covenanted with my Lord that He should not send visions or dreams or even angels! I am content with this gift of the Scriptures, which teaches and supplies all that is necessary, both for this life and that which is to come."
God may not send you a friend; he may not raise up a deliverer; but if he shall only give you to believe his Word, that shall be enough for you.
Earlier Post.
I believe we are witnesses, and we witness to the truth of Scripture. truth revealed in Scripture alone. God’s Word is sufficient and has the highest authority for all of life. Not the Bible and our own little fundamentalist predilections that we like to stick in there. Not the Bible and our own little legalistic tags. Not the Bible and anything at all. Just the Bible. The Bible tells us what the Bible means...not an infusion of God’s enabling power so that we may then work our own way towards a final redemptive conclusion, but the imputation of the righteousness of Christ; a forensic thing, so that it is all outside of me. All of my salvation is outside of me in the ultimate sense (grace).
No comprende?
God's word is fixed in the Heavens, and his faithfulness extends generation after generation. The promises of God are without recall. I am afeared for those who do not believe the Bible is the spoken Word of God. Afeared that you are missing the whole enchilada!
I'll take those dreams, visions, and angels, but I do like your point. The last sentence is especially good. His word is wonderful, powerful, and points us always to Jesus.Quote:
Somebody once said: "I have covenanted with my Lord that He should not send visions or dreams or even angels! I am content with this gift of the Scriptures, which teaches and supplies all that is necessary, both for this life and that which is to come."
God may not send you a friend; he may not raise up a deliverer; but if he shall only give you to believe his Word, that shall be enough for you.
That's what Joseph Smith said. DOH!Quote:
I'll take those dreams, visions, and angels
My claim to fame: I grew up near Palmyra, NY, the birthplace of the LDS movement, where Joseph had those dreams, visions, and saw those angels. I have walked through the sacred grove and climbed the hill Cumorah (but I didn't dig up any golden plates).Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
There is nothing we can do to earn salvation. It is God's gift to us. Our response is to love Him and each other.Quote:
All of my salvation is outside of me in the ultimate sense (grace).
Could the older brother earn the father's love by his faithfulness to duty? -- or was he confident he had, thus his disappointment and even anger.
The Love that comes from "outside of me". True, in-deed (pun intended).Quote:
Our response is to love Him and each other.
Ain't got nutting to do with "My Love"...my love, oh my love, does it better (Not)
I don’t think JS saw visions or had dreams. He claimed to have seen an angel. Highly suspicious story.
It is true we cannot earn salvation, but it does require us to repent and believe.
Not sure, I think he seen a vision of an Angel in a dream he had. Why subject yourself to dreams and visions? Sure they are nice, but a person can get into all kinds of Trouble putting their faith in such beliefs.
"In early Church records, there are references to several dreams attributed to Joseph Smith Jr.1 They were recorded by Joseph himself, his clerks, or others who interacted with him. For the most part, Joseph’s dreams include no explanation, by either him or the recorder, concerning their purpose or interpretation. Yet, we know that Joseph viewed dreams as a legitimate channel of revelation, as evidenced in the fact that he recorded his dreams and used them in his public sermons."Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
https://www.ldsliving.com/Joseph-Smi...s-Life/s/91424
"The Prophet Joseph Smith had his first vision at the age of fourteen while praying in a grove of trees in western New York (see First Vision). The appearance of the Lord to him, like that to Saul of Tarsus, was attended by a shining light from heaven (Acts 9:3). The Lord spoke face-to-face with Joseph and called him to service. This was the first of a series of visions Joseph Smith received...."@
https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Visions_of_Joseph_Smith
We can't even believe on our own. We can only say no.Quote:
It is true we cannot earn salvation, but it does require us to repent and believe.
Read the prophecy of Joel in Acts 2. They are promised.
The Angel Moroni showed him where to find the golden plates that were buried on the hill Cumorah!Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
"Smith said that on the night of September 21, 1823, Moroni appeared to him and told him about the golden plates that were buried in a stone box a few miles from Smith's home. Smith said that the same angel visited him various times over the course of the next six years; Smith also said that the angel visited him to retrieve the golden plates after Smith had finished translating a portion of the writing on the plates into the Book of Mormon." (Wikipedia)
The Book of Mormon is based on the golden plates and not on dreams and visions. It has proven to be historically unreliable in the extreme.
WG you must repent and believe. It’s throughout the Bible.
Ah, you're an LDS historian!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The Apostles Creed, Luther's explanation of the Third Article (why does the Holy Spirit exist):Quote:
WG you must repent and believe. It’s throughout the Bible.
"I believe thatI believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith. In the same way He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith. In this Christian church He daily and richly forgives all my sins and the sins of all believers. On the Last Day He will raise me and all the dead, and give eternal life to me and all believers in Christ. I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith. In the same way He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith. In this Christian church He daily and richly forgives all my sins and the sins of all believers. On the Last Day He will raise me and all the dead, and give eternal life to me and all believers in Christ."
Are you able to believe your Sins have been forgiven?Quote:
WG you must repent and believe.
Quote:
I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him
If I've confessed my sins and am told they have been forgiven, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Not sure I understand what you mean by this?Quote:
told they have been forgiven
Confess my sins (at the Cross), I will know for certain they have been forgiven,
What Cross? One in your bedroom? Who says you're forgiven?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Luke 23:12; Romans 8:7, "The mind of the flesh is enmity against God." James 4:4 , "The friendship of the world is enmity with God" (because "the world" is preferred to God); in Ephesians 2:15,16 , Christ is said to have "abolished in his flesh the enmity," by His cross to have "slain the enmity," that is, the opposition between Jew and Gentile, creating in Himself "one new man, (so) making peace."
You are clearly of this world, enjoy while it last.
Sooooo, anyone who challenges you and tries to make you think clearly is "of this world". You really disappoint me, waltero. We were doing so well!Quote:
You are clearly of this world, enjoy while it last.
I have studied the Mormons. Been a few years, but I've read considerably on them.Quote:
Ah, you're an LDS historian!
You quote Luther. I quote the Bible.
Mark 1:15 ESV And saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
Acts 2:38 ESV And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 2:8 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Romans 10:9 ESV Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Mark 16:16 ESV Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Matthew 4:17 ESV From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Ah, so many proof passages! As you so deftly proved my case:
Ephesians 2:8 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.
Acts 2:38 ESV And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. I.e. faith
Yeah, I learned how to cherry pick too years ago when I was a fundamentalist, a literalist. Then I grew up, thanks be to God!
Which came first?Quote:
Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. I.e. faith.
Perhaps your problem is you have never repented other than some game that was played at your infant baptism. Possible?
The gift of the Holy Spirit is faith. It's a gift of God, not from our own efforts. If you'd read the Bible, especially the NT, as a whole, you'd find that out.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I won't even dignify that with a (Christian) retort. Btw, I'll probably get to heaven before you will. Look me up and I'll introduce you around.Quote:
Perhaps your problem is you have never repented other than some game that was played at your infant baptism. Possible?
When Somebody doesn't believe the Bible is true, somebody who want's Hand in this world- defiantly of the World, clear as Night is to Day. Your in Danger WG, DANGER!!! Seek the Kingdom of God "first". Don't let this world steal your heart.Quote:
Sooooo, anyone who challenges you and tries to make you think clearly is "of this world"
Love your HBTQ friends; maybe you shouldn't run with them? Why do you think they're looking for a voice?
Where're all in trouble if we don't get off this site and get to work.
Be very careful, waltero. Matthew 7:1 (NIV) -- "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Nothing in this world interests me. I'm old and nearly dead and look forward to heaven.
Just another of those unsupported, desperate responses. I've read the NT many dozens of times. There is very little support for the idea that faith comes from the Holy Spirit of God. I would not object to that idea, by the way. I just don't think it's NT.Quote:
If you'd read the Bible, especially the NT, as a whole, you'd find that out.
That was your own testimony months ago. Is it not correct that your church allowed some adults to stand in for your repentance when you were infant baptized?Quote:
I won't even dignify that with a (Christian) retort.
I'm sorry to hear that.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
And then there was confirmation and regular church/Sunday School/Bible class attendance and regular partaking of Holy Communion and getting married in church by a pastor father. Marks of faith.Quote:
That was your own testimony months ago. Is it not correct that your church allowed some adults to stand in for your repentance when you were infant baptized?
Do you not understand? Your a voice for the LGBTQ (World). Your promoting Sin! (No, I'm loving the sinner) yes, that is true, it's all you! The love we have for Jesus, we do not share that love with others. The love we share with others is a new love, drawn from Christ Jesus, himself. Maybe you could try and understand?Quote:
Be very careful, waltero. Matthew 7:1 (NIV) -- "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
Sin is judging before you know whereof you speak.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
LGBT+ people had no say in how they were created and how they emerged from their mother's womb -- just like those lefthanders or babies with two different color eyes or conjoined twins.
Are they any worse of than the rest of us? You going to understand them as being in a different light? Maybe the World can accept them. Who knows, if the "World" can come to an understanding- God might as well?Quote:
LGBT+ people had no say in how they were created and how they emerged from their mother's womb -- just like those lefthanders or babies with two different color eyes or conjoined twins.
It might just be, I know whereof I speak? I have trouble figuring out why your speaking...speaking in support of a world view. Your off focus. Might I suggest fasting and prayer? I'll fast and pray along side you. I can never fast for myself, easier for me to fast with others.Quote:
Sin is judging before you know whereof you speak
They are just like you and me. God loves all of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
You're (you are), not your (possessive pronoun).Quote:
It might just be, I know whereof I speak? I have trouble figuring out why your speaking...speaking in support of a world view. Your off focus.
It's not a world view. The focus is love and acceptance of people who had no choice in how they developed as fetuses.
I understand they need love too. But it is not your love that they are in need of.Quote:
It's not a world view. The focus is love and acceptance of people who had no choice in how they developed as fetuses.
Christian value.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
In your natural state, you seek the love of the World.Quote:
people who had no choice in how they developed as fetuses.
In the so called real world?Quote:
The focus is love and acceptance
I don't see it...I see world values.Quote:
Christian value.
We could accept them for who they are and for who they are not. You are accepting them into your life, by agreeing with them, approving of them, waiving your own rights, or downplaying their impact upon you.
Then open your eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Might be better to open ones ears first.Quote:
Then open your eyes.
We could accept them for who they are and for who they are not. You are accepting them into your life, by agreeing with them, approving of them, waiving your own rights, while downplaying their impact upon you.
I'd still "approve of you" if you were lefthanded or had one blue eye and one brown eye. They were never asked if they wanted to be born gay or transgender. What specifically don't you like about them?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
I love them. Just as I love my brother, and my niece, who is now my nephew. They are chasing this world, and for you to chase after them? Born again; a new life, is not of this world, and those of us who have been "born again", should not chase after the things of this world.Quote:
What specifically don't you like about them?
Funny, you approve of everything but the Bible.Quote:
I'd still "approve of you"
Read a science journal and BELIEVE! Science is rewritten every so, so. Read the Bible - this must be askew!
Just STOP!
And they have thrown out their Bibles for a wild life of excesses???Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Oh, I appove of the REAL Bible -- just not your version of it.Quote:
Funny, you approve of everything but the Bible.
We could accept them for who they are and for who they are not. You are accepting them into your life, by agreeing with them, approving of them, waiving your own rights, while downplaying their impact upon you.Quote:
The focus is love and acceptance of people who had no choice in how they developed as fetuses.
If you don't know the difference?Quote:
They are just like you and me. God loves all of us.
Oh, no you don't. You have stated many times that the Bible has been corrupted and the manuscripts can't be trusted.Quote:
Oh, I appove of the REAL Bible
There's only one Bible.Quote:
just not your version of it.
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