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-   -   Purgatory - just how long is it? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=238834)

  • Jul 29, 2008, 06:58 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u
    Even though the word trinity is not in the scripture does not mean the teaching is not there.

    Absolutely right. The doctrine of the trinity is probably one of the strongest taught doctrines in the Bible from Genesis through to Revelation. The word trinity is just a word used to describe it.

    Quote:

    Same with purgatory the word is not there BUT the question IS is the teaching there?
    That doctrine cannot be found anywhere from Genesis through to Revelation. The only way that claims are made that it is there is through interpretations of the leaders of one or more church denominations. Interpretations of men.
  • Jul 29, 2008, 06:59 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    Please show me.

    How many times must I quote it?

    2 Peter 1:19-21
    20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
    NKJV
  • Jul 29, 2008, 07:00 PM
    N0help4u
    The denomination decides what is scriptural but then you have to determine that you agree with it as Biblically sound. Like I could believe that Assemblies of God is closest to the truth that does not mean that they are but that is what I believe. No church has cornered the market on the truth.
  • Jul 29, 2008, 07:00 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    Amen my friend.... but, as usual, I say it does.... and so does more than a thousand years of Christians long before you and I were born.... so who determines who is right?

    God. Do you have a problem with His interpretation?
  • Jul 29, 2008, 07:15 PM
    ScottRC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    How many times must I quote it?

    2 Peter 1:19-21
    20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
    NKJV

    The Church is a collective group... and so is not a "private interpretation"... the Greek word "idios" should make this clear.
    Quote:

    God. Do you have a problem with His interpretation?
    No... but it seems you don't offer Him the same respect when others views vary from your own.
  • Jul 29, 2008, 07:24 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    The Church is a collective group... and so is not a "private interpretation"... the Greek word "idios" should make this clear.

    Ah, so you are trying to say that when you get a group of men together that the combined error in their interpretation is better than a just having that error by yourself.

    Now, if that is okay for your denomination, then it must be okay for all other denominations also, right?

    Be consistent!

    Quote:

    No... but it seems you don't offer Him the same respect when others views vary from your own.
    Hmmm... lets' examine that thought once you tell me if the interpretations of other denominations are equal to those made by yours.
  • Jul 30, 2008, 06:18 PM
    De Maria
    Got to tell you Pete. I need white space. When you have long paragraphs with continuous sentences, I just have trouble reading it. But I'll give it a shot.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Peter Wilson
    De Maria, sorry you got blamed for my post. :)

    No problem.

    Quote:

    What I meant was that our works will be tested by fire, that is, as we build on the foundation of Jesus, His church. If what we build with is from our own ideas or making, like a cult might do, then it will be tested. If our works are righteous, and in keeping with what has already been laid and not add to it a different Gospel than was preached in the beginning, then it will stand and we will receive our reward. Our righteous acts will not be burned up,
    Ok

    Quote:

    I didn't mean for it to sound like that, just the acts of righteousness that come from the wrong motives.
    Hm? Seems to contradict what you just said.

    Quote:

    If from spiritual pride, whoosh, up it goes, if for the praise of men, whoosh, if for personal gain, whoosh, if for any other reason than to obey the Holy Spirit, (you do have the Holy Spirit don't you?)
    I think so. And that is another good point. Does the Holy Spirit contradicts itself? If you believe I have the Holy Spirit, why do you believe you can teach me anything?

    Quote:

    then it will be accounted as loss.
    OK.

    Quote:

    If you are not Born again, you can't either see nor enter the Kingdom of God.
    When did you get Born again,
    Yes.

    Quote:

    what was your experience. Were you "buried" in baptism, or just sprinkled.
    I was baptized as an infant.

    Quote:

    If so, did you believe before you were baptized, do you have the signs following that Jesus said would follow them that believe?
    Do you?

    Quote:

    To be honest, the way you interpret scripture is as far out as the Jehova's Witnesses.
    I believe I interpret Scripture much better than you Pete.

    Quote:

    You seem to believe whatever you have been taught by man.
    That's why we all have different gifts Pete. Some of us are teachers:
    Romans 12 6 And having different gifts, according to the grace that is given us, either prophecy, to be used according to the rule of faith; 7 Or ministry, in ministering; or he that teacheth, in doctrine; 8 He that exhorteth, in exhorting; he that giveth, with simplicity; he that ruleth, with carefulness; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness. 9 Let love be without dissimulation. Hating that which is evil, cleaving to that which is good. 10 Loving one another with the charity of brotherhood, with honour preventing one another.

    Quote:

    Why don't you pray this prayer, I did, "Dear Father God, if I am in error and if I am in the wrong place, then tell me. For if you don't tell me, then when I stand before you, on that day, I will say, "It is your fault, I asked you to tell me and you didn't"".
    There's one thing I know about God, He wants us to be real, not religious.
    I've prayed that many times Pete. I advise you to pray the same.

    Quote:

    He loves it when we come and reason with Him.
    Isaiah 1
    18 "Come now, let us reason together,"
    Says the LORD.
    "Though your sins are like scarlet,
    They shall be as white as snow;
    Though they are red as crimson,
    They shall be like wool.
    I don't mean that we should be dis-respectful, just real.
    I agree. I think you show the makings of a great Catholic. I await your entry in the Catholic Church with open arms.

    Quote:

    God wants to work in your life beyond the limits you set, by His grace, I have had many miracles happen to me and my family, from healings to supernatural provision to visions and dreams, to even hearing the audible voice of God on at least two occasions, to seeing angels and demons and even meeting Jesus, face to face in a vision. (Though I couldn't actually see His face, it was shining like the sun.) I have seen Heaven open and God on the throne, with Jesus at His right hand,(He was standing), there was a number of elders standing and sitting on the ground around the throne,and all the Angels of heaven around them, though back at a distance. Gold dust was floating down over all the worshippers at that time, it was awesome.
    That is wonderful for you Pete. Now, since you seem to have a more direct line to God than I, ask Him to teach you about the Catholic Church. And come join the church of the first born and the just made perfect.

    Quote:

    Please understand that I don't say that to make myself sound more "spiritual" than you or anybody else, if I have received anything, then it is the gift of God, certainly not my righteousness, I battle the desires and appetites of the flesh as do we all.
    I just say these things to let you know that God is not just a belief system, He is real and active today, look at what is happening in Florida and other parts of the world.
    I KNOW!!

    Quote:

    In our Church ( Dayspring Church Australia) we have had some very significant healings lately, one man was healed from Parkinsons disease, another woman was in a coma on her deathbed with cancer, she was prayed for and completely healed.
    These are the works that are righteous, let these be tested in the fire, this is what you have called for at this time. If you ignore the call then l trust in your own righteousness.
    I trust in God.

    Quote:

    Sorry if it sounds like I'm judging you, I'm not,
    No need to apologize. I think you are on the right track. You just need one thing more. The Catholic Church.

    Quote:

    I don't even know you, I'm just trying to spur you on to do good works, after all, wasn't that your first love, don't you remember why you chose to follow the priesthood, to get close to God.
    I'm not a priest. I'm a lay person. But I understand where you are coming from.

    Quote:

    Rev. 3
    2Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God.
    And I say to you,
    James 2 18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without works; and I will show thee, by works, my faith.

    This is what the Catholic Church teaches. And this work of evangelisation that I do on the Internet is just one of my works.

    I don't go around patting myself on the back however, for Scripture also says:
    Matthew 6 2 Therefore when thou dost an almsdeed, sound not a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honoured by men. Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.

    3 But when thou dost alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doth. 4 That thy alms may be in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret will repay thee.


    Sincerely,

    De Maria
  • Jul 30, 2008, 07:10 PM
    De Maria
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    There is not only nothing in scripture supporting such a practice, but indeed it is a completely unnecessary practice since you are either on to way to hell not having received Christ as Saviour, or if you have received Christ as Saviour, then he has paid the price for ALL of your sins (1 John 1:9 and others). The Roman Church is therefore claiming power and authority that is does not have.

    I assume you mean the payment for sins:
    Acts Of Apostles 8 22 Do penance therefore for this thy wickedness; and pray to God, that perhaps this thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee.

    Acts Of Apostles 26 20 But to them first that are at Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and unto all the country of Judea, and to the Gentiles did I preach, that they should do penance, and turn to God, doing works worthy of penance.

    2 Corinthians 12 21 Lest again, when I come, God humble me among you: and I mourn many of them that sinned before, and have not done penance for the uncleanness, and fornication, and lasciviousness, that they have committed.

    Apocalypse 2 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed: and they that commit adultery with her shall be in very great tribulation, except they do penance from their deeds.

    Quote:

    Jesus retained those keys as shown by the fact that He still has them in the Book of Revelation.

    Rev 1:18-19
    18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
    NKJV
    Different set of keys:
    Matthew 16 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

    Sincerely,

    De Maria
  • Jul 30, 2008, 07:19 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by De Maria
    I assume you mean the payment for sins:
    Acts Of Apostles 8 22 Do penance therefore for this thy wickedness; and pray to God, that perhaps this thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee.

    Acts Of Apostles 26 20 But to them first that are at Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and unto all the country of Judea, and to the Gentiles did I preach, that they should do penance, and turn to God, doing works worthy of penance.

    2 Corinthians 12 21 Lest again, when I come, God humble me among you: and I mourn many of them that sinned before, and have not done penance for the uncleanness, and fornication, and lasciviousness, that they have committed.

    Apocalypse 2 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed: and they that commit adultery with her shall be in very great tribulation, except they do penance from their deeds.

    Nice try.

    Tell me, have you found any translation other than the Douay-Rheims Bible (created by the Roman Church to support its own doctrines) which translates the word as "penance"?

    The word used in Acts 8:22 in Greek is metanoeo which means to change your mind. I did not waste my time checking the rest though I suspect that the other verses are equally poorly translated.

    Quote:

    Different set of keys:
    Matthew 16 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
    So what makes you think that they are a different set of keys?
  • Jul 30, 2008, 09:54 PM
    De Maria
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    Nice try.

    Tell me, have you found any translation other than the Douay-Rheims Bible (created by the Roman Church to support its own doctrines) which translates the word as "penance"?

    The word used in Acts 8:22 in Greek is metanoeo which means to change your mind. I did not waste my time checking the rest though I suspect that the other verses are equally poorly translated.

    Lets see. According to the BLB, metaneo means also:

    heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins
    Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

    What does "amend" mean?

    Amend
    A verb
    1 rectify, remediate, remedy, repair, amend
    set straight or right; "remedy these deficiencies"; "rectify the inequities in salaries"; "repair an oversight"
    Definition of amend - WordReference.com Dictionary

    Re·pent 1 (r-pnt)
    v. re·pent·ed, re·pent·ing, re·pents
    v.intr.
    1. To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.
    2. To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it: repented of intemperate behavior.
    3. To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins.
    v.tr.
    1. To feel regret or self-reproach for: repent one's sins.
    2. To cause to feel remorse or regret.
    repent - definition of repent by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    Why that doesn't mean to amend at all? It just means to be sorry for what one has done.

    Penance
    Noun
    1. voluntary self-punishment to make amends for a sin
    2. RC Church a sacrament in which repentant sinners are forgiven provided they confess their sins to a priest and perform a penance [Latin paenitentia repentance]
    penance - definition of penance by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    But penance means "to make amends".

    Isn't that something? The Protestant translations don't take the entire meaning of the word into account. They leave out making amends.

    Just goes to show, that the Douay is actually the most accurate translation in the English language.

    Quote:

    So what makes you think that they are a different set of keys?
    You don't know the difference between heaven and hell?

    Heaven is eternal life.

    Hell is eternal death.

    Read it.

    Matthew 16 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven

    Rev 1:18-19 And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

    This is another reason why Sola Scriptura fails. I had to explain to you the difference between heaven and hell. Unbelievable!!

    Sincerely,

    De Maria
  • Jul 30, 2008, 09:55 PM
    De Maria
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    Nice try.

    Tell me, have you found any translation other than the Douay-Rheims Bible (created by the Roman Church to support its own doctrines) which translates the word as "penance"?

    The word used in Acts 8:22 in Greek is metanoeo which means to change your mind. I did not waste my time checking the rest though I suspect that the other verses are equally poorly translated.

    Lets see. According to the BLB, metaneo means also:

    heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins
    Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

    What does "amend" mean?

    Amend
    A verb
    1 rectify, remediate, remedy, repair, amend
    set straight or right; "remedy these deficiencies"; "rectify the inequities in salaries"; "repair an oversight"
    Definition of amend - WordReference.com Dictionary

    Re·pent 1 (r-pnt)
    v. re·pent·ed, re·pent·ing, re·pents
    v.intr.
    1. To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.
    2. To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it: repented of intemperate behavior.
    3. To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins.
    v.tr.
    1. To feel regret or self-reproach for: repent one's sins.
    2. To cause to feel remorse or regret.
    repent - definition of repent by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    Why that doesn't mean to amend at all? It just means to be sorry for what one has done.

    Penance
    Noun
    1. voluntary self-punishment to make amends for a sin
    2. RC Church a sacrament in which repentant sinners are forgiven provided they confess their sins to a priest and perform a penance [Latin paenitentia repentance]
    penance - definition of penance by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    But penance means "to make amends".

    Isn't that something? The Protestant translations don't take the entire meaning of the word into account. They leave out making amends.

    Just goes to show, that the Douay is actually the most accurate translation in the English language.

    Quote:

    So what makes you think that they are a different set of keys?
    You don't know the difference between heaven and hell?

    Heaven is eternal life.

    Hell is eternal death.

    Read it.

    Matthew 16 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven

    Rev 1:18-19 And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

    This is another reason why Sola Scriptura fails. Apparently, by your private interpretation, you thought they were the same set of keys. I had to explain to you the difference between heaven and hell. Unbelievable!!

    Sincerely,

    De Maria
  • Jul 31, 2008, 07:24 AM
    Peter Wilson
    Actually, DeMaria, I do have those signs following, when I was 21, even though I was into dealing drugs, drinking, sex and whatever else would come my way, I still used to pray.
    Must have been the catholic in me eh!
    Sorry about the long runs of words with no breaks, I'm a builder, no writer, I suppose that's obvious though.
    Anyway, I was out in the back yard of my parents house, and I asked God to let His light shine through me to help other people.
    I walked back inside and something washed over me, and I started to speak in tongues, I thought that I had made up a new language, and thought I was pretty cool.
    Even though I had been brought up a Catholic and went to Catholic school, I never even heard about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
    I felt wonderful, I would walk around the backyard speaking in this new language to my dog, she didn't seem to mind.
    After that, I had three dreams, the first one was-
    Dream 1.
    I was kneeling down in a catholic church praying, I was alone, my back got really hot, so I turned around and saw blood and fire raining on the church.
    I was instantly taken from there straight up, and taken back to the beginning of time, as I was flying in, I saw a figure dressed in a white monks habit, he had his hands together inside his sleeves and his head forward, so I couldn't see his face.
    He was standing beside a screen, on this screen was scriptural type words, moving slowly up the screen.
    I looked around to see where the light was coming from, it was shining down from space onto something else and reflected onto the screen. I could see the earth, dark and void, there was no stars or moon.
    Suddenly, a very powerful voice started speaking to me, it sounded like thousands of voices of one loud voice.
    I knew that that was my life on that screen, that it had been written down.
    I didn't know what to think, I thought maybe it was judgement day or something.
    I woke up with a start and was shaking and sweating profusely.
    If you know your scriptures, you will understand this dream and the significance of it to me.
    Dream 2.
    I was walking along in a field, it was a beautiful sunny day, I walked down into a gully, and along the end of the gully, was a door leading into the earth.
    I walked down and opened the door, there was a cave hewn out of the earth, I could see the roots of the grass sticking through.
    At the end of the cave, about 20 feet or so, there was, what looked like a white ball, that had a square cut into it and padded, just like the inside of a coffin.
    I stepped into the ball, and it immediately started spinning.
    It was a pleasurable experience, but then, I was rolled out of the ball into an underground cave.
    It was dark, except for an eerie light that was coming from around a corner.
    I was picked up spiritually, or that is the best way to describe it, and forced/carried to the corner of the cave.
    I looked around, I could see tables and chairs some fallen over in various places, there were also plates and cups strewn about.
    On the corner that I was hanging onto, was a wooden bench, there was wooden shelves on the walls with old bottles standing and some lying down.
    Everything looked as if it had been untouched for hundreds of years, all covered in dust.
    This force pulled me off the post that I was hanging onto, and I was stood with my back to a large hole behind me. I looked down and saw an armour plated steel ramp leading back into the hole.
    My back got really hot, and I could see the flickering of flames on the walls.
    I thought, "This must be Hell, I must be at the very gates of Hell!"
    I immediately began to call on the name of Jesus, I was saying "I love Jesus, Jesus is my Lord".
    As I continued to say it, the power dragging me into hell, suddenly let go and I fell forward and started walking away.
    I stopped saying it and the power started pulling me back again.
    I almost tripped over my tongue and continued saying "Jesus is Lord, I love Jesus!"
    The power stopped pulling me and I was able to go back to the hole, crawl up through the ball, out of the cave, back into the sunlight, and then I woke up sweating and shaking again!
    Again, if you know your scriptures, you will recognize the significance of this dream.
    Dream 3
    (Hope your not getting bored) It was night time, I looked over to my left to see a town all lit up, I was on a boat about 300 or so metres offshore.
    I looked to my right, and there was an enemy gunship, firing onto the shore.
    There was about 6-8 other people on our boat, which was shaped exactly like Noahs ark.
    I told everybody to jump off and I would ram the enemy gunship.
    I turned the boat around and headed toward it.
    Just before we collided, they saw me coming, and turned their guns on me, but it was too late.
    We crashed into each other and as we did, I jumped off and started swimming away.
    Unfortunately, the boats sank so fast, that I got sucked down with them.
    I started swimming to the surface thinking, "I'll make it, I always do."
    Suddenly I stopped swimming, I had drowned, I thought," Well I'm dead now, I might as well wake up".
    And so I did, sweating and shaking again.
    Again, if you know your scriptures, you will understand the symbolism.

    I told that, to tell you this.
    As I was walking around the backyard and in the laundry, it was an old house with a separate laundry, the Holy Spirit started speaking to me. He told me to get baptized by full immersion.
    I said, "where am I supposed to go, the lutheran church, the prostestant church, besides, I am supposed to be in the one true church" (You see, even I believed it once)
    The Holy Spirit told me to go and see this bloke that I used to buy drugs from.
    He got busted bringing Buddha sticks back from Bali, glassed inside a surfboard.
    I thought about it, and my idea of Christians, was like a Mormon or a Jehova's witness, that is, short hair dressed in a suit.
    I said, "Look Lord, if I don't settle down in the world by the time I hit 35, I will find you then, even if I have to become a priest or a monk or a nun!" (I was being facetious)
    Fortunately, He didn't strike me dead, but He was faithful, and at 35, he told me audibly to get baptized.
    Even then, if yo read my profile, I have been bitten by snakes, one a taipan, and all the signs in Mark 16, I have in my life, so yes, I do have the signs, and I wasn't sold a pup, no-one brainwashed me.
    God has a plan for my life, as He does for yours, I know, because He showed me.
    There have been many other things that God has done in my life, but that will have to wait for another time.
    Grace and Peace
    Peter.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 08:07 AM
    De Maria
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Peter Wilson
    Actually, DeMaria, I do have those signs following, when I was 21, even though I was into dealing drugs, drinking, sex and whatever else would come my way, I still used to pray.
    Must have been the catholic in me eh!

    No. That is Luther's teaching. "Sin and sin mightily and grace will abound the more." Of course that is completely against Scripture:

    Romans 6 1 What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid.

    How many Protestants have I spoken to who claim that ALL their sins, past and present have been forgiven simply because they made a profession of faith. Tons and tons. Sorry, but that is a Protestant teaching. Not Catholic at all.

    Quote:

    Sorry about the long runs of words with no breaks, I'm a builder, no writer, I suppose that's obvious though.
    Just hit the Enter button after you've completed an idea. And that way you'll build a better more readable message.

    Quote:

    Anyway, I was out in the back yard of my parents house, and I asked God to let His light shine through me to help other people.
    I walked back inside and something washed over me, and I started to speak in tongues, I thought that I had made up a new language, and thought I was pretty cool.
    Even though I had been brought up a Catholic and went to Catholic school, I never even heard about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
    I felt wonderful, I would walk around the backyard speaking in this new language to my dog, she didn't seem to mind.
    After that, I had three dreams, the first one was-
    Dream 1.
    I was kneeling down in a catholic church praying, I was alone, my back got really hot, so I turned around and saw blood and fire raining on the church.
    I was instantly taken from there straight up, and taken back to the beginning of time, as I was flying in, I saw a figure dressed in a white monks habit, he had his hands together inside his sleeves and his head forward, so I couldn't see his face.
    He was standing beside a screen, on this screen was scriptural type words, moving slowly up the screen.
    I looked around to see where the light was coming from, it was shining down from space onto something else and reflected onto the screen. I could see the earth, dark and void, there was no stars or moon.
    Suddenly, a very powerful voice started speaking to me, it sounded like thousands of voices of one loud voice.
    I knew that that was my life on that screen, that it had been written down.
    I didn't know what to think, I thought maybe it was judgement day or something.
    I woke up with a start and was shaking and sweating profusely.
    If you know your scriptures, you will understand this dream and the significance of it to me.
    Dream 2.
    I was walking along in a field, it was a beautiful sunny day, I walked down into a gully, and along the end of the gully, was a door leading into the earth.
    I walked down and opened the door, there was a cave hewn out of the earth, I could see the roots of the grass sticking through.
    At the end of the cave, about 20 feet or so, there was, what looked like a white ball, that had a square cut into it and padded, just like the inside of a coffin.
    I stepped into the ball, and it immediately started spinning.
    It was a pleasurable experience, but then, I was rolled out of the ball into an underground cave.
    It was dark, except for an eerie light that was coming from around a corner.
    I was picked up spiritually, or that is the best way to describe it, and forced/carried to the corner of the cave.
    I looked around, I could see tables and chairs some fallen over in various places, there were also plates and cups strewn about.
    On the corner that I was hanging onto, was a wooden bench, there was wooden shelves on the walls with old bottles standing and some lying down.
    Everything looked as if it had been untouched for hundreds of years, all covered in dust.
    This force pulled me off the post that I was hanging onto, and I was stood with my back to a large hole behind me. I looked down and saw an armour plated steel ramp leading back into the hole.
    My back got really hot, and I could see the flickering of flames on the walls.
    I thought, "This must be Hell, I must be at the very gates of Hell!"
    I immediately began to call on the name of Jesus, I was saying "I love Jesus, Jesus is my Lord".
    As I continued to say it, the power dragging me into hell, suddenly let go and I fell forward and started walking away.
    I stopped saying it and the power started pulling me back again.
    I almost tripped over my tongue and continued saying "Jesus is Lord, I love Jesus!"
    The power stopped pulling me and I was able to go back to the hole, crawl up through the ball, out of the cave, back into the sunlight, and then I woke up sweating and shaking again!
    Again, if you know your scriptures, you will recognize the significance of this dream.
    Dream 3
    (Hope your not getting bored) It was night time, I looked over to my left to see a town all lit up, I was on a boat about 300 or so metres offshore.
    I looked to my right, and there was an enemy gunship, firing onto the shore.
    There was about 6-8 other people on our boat, which was shaped exactly like Noahs ark.
    I told everybody to jump off and I would ram the enemy gunship.
    I turned the boat around and headed toward it.
    Just before we collided, they saw me coming, and turned their guns on me, but it was too late.
    We crashed into each other and as we did, I jumped off and started swimming away.
    Unfortunately, the boats sank so fast, that I got sucked down with them.
    I started swimming to the surface thinking, "I'll make it, I always do."
    Suddenly I stopped swimming, I had drowned, I thought," Well I'm dead now, I might as well wake up".
    And so I did, sweating and shaking again.
    Again, if you know your scriptures, you will understand the symbolism.
    Yeah. And its all Catholic. Apparently you've received the gift of prophecy but not the gift of interpretation.

    In the first dream you were in the CATHOLIC Church praying and you were taken up TO SAFETY.

    In the 2nd dream, the Post which you were clinging to is the Pillar of Truth, the Church. And when you were pulled away, you were standing on the precipice of hell.

    In the 3rd dream, you were in the Ark and safe, the Ark has always been a symbol of the Barque of Peter, the Catholic Church. But YOU made a shambles of the Ark, you sunk it and then you drowned.

    Obviously, God is calling you back to the Catholic Church, but Satan is keeping you in his grip.

    Repent, go to confession and reconcile yourself to God and His Church.

    Quote:

    I told that, to tell you this.
    As I was walking around the backyard and in the laundry, it was an old house with a separate laundry, the Holy Spirit started speaking to me. He told me to get baptized by full immersion.
    Did you try the spirit? Because that wasn't the Holy Spirit who spoke to you. If you were Baptized Catholic, you need not be baptized again.

    Quote:

    I said, "where am I supposed to go, the lutheran church, the prostestant church, besides, I am supposed to be in the one true church" (You see, even I believed it once)
    The Holy Spirit told me to go and see this bloke that I used to buy drugs from.
    He got busted bringing Buddha sticks back from Bali, glassed inside a surfboard.
    I thought about it, and my idea of Christians, was like a Mormon or a Jehova's witness, that is, short hair dressed in a suit.
    I said, "Look Lord, if I don't settle down in the world by the time I hit 35, I will find you then, even if I have to become a priest or a monk or a nun!" (I was being facetious)
    Fortunately, He didn't strike me dead, but He was faithful, and at 35, he told me audibly to get baptized.
    Even then, if yo read my profile, I have been bitten by snakes, one a taipan, and all the signs in Mark 16, I have in my life, so yes, I do have the signs, and I wasn't sold a pup, no-one brainwashed me.
    Read the Scripture:

    Matthew 7 21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    Quote:

    God has a plan for my life, as He does for yours, I know, because He showed me.
    There have been many other things that God has done in my life, but that will have to wait for another time.
    Grace and Peace
    Peter.
    I think He has a plan for you. But you have been running from it. Come back to the Fullness of Truth and you will take your first steps in the right direction.

    Sincerely,

    De Maria
  • Jul 31, 2008, 09:53 AM
    ScottRC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    Ah, so you are trying to say that when you get a group of men together that the combined error in their interpretation is better than a just having that error by yourself.

    It's not just any group of men... it is those chosen by the Apostles to carry on their mission... those who are protected and guided by the Holy Spirit through the laying of hands... in other words, Apostolic Succession.
    Quote:

    Now, if that is okay for your denomination, then it must be okay for all other denominations also, right?
    Yes... any that have a valid priesthood with Apostolic Succession... Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 10:51 AM
    Fr_Chuck
    A lot of posts have been deleted, persoal attacks on faith, difference between explaining what ideas and teachings various denominations have, and bigoted comments about a denomination.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 10:55 AM
    N0help4u
    My point was that you can not say it is one denominations teaching when it IS in other denominations so none can point fingers.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 11:12 AM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    It's not just any group of men... it is those chosen by the Apostles to carry on their mission... those who are protected and guided by the Holy Spirit through the laying of hands... in other words, Apostolic Succession.

    Something that I would suggest is also not scriptural. Therefore I would suggest that it is just any groups of men. Jesus did not start a denomination, nor did He delegate a single denomination.

    Quote:

    Yes... any that have a valid priesthood with Apostolic Succession... Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox.
    [/QUOTE]

    According to the man who you claim to be the pope, I am a valid priest.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 11:20 AM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by De Maria
    Lets see. According to the BLB, metaneo means also:

    heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins
    Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

    You are quite selective is what you choose to quiote and not quote. Let's look at all of it:

    1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
    2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

    Note that the context even of the line that you quoted has to do with chnaging one's mind. Nowhere does this suggest doing penance.

    Quote:

    Just goes to show, that the Douay is actually the most accurate translation in the English language.
    Again, I find it hard to believe that you even believe that statement.

    Quote:

    You don't know the difference between heaven and hell?
    I know the difference and I also know that when Jesus opens the door to one for a person, the door to the other is closed. What controls one, controls the other. That is the Biblical gospel.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 11:31 AM
    ScottRC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    Something that I would suggest is also not scriptural. Therefore I would suggest that it is just any groups of men. Jesus did not start a denomination, nor did He delegate a single denomination.

    Opinions vary obviously, but again we come back to the question of how to decide who is right? :)
    Quote:

    According to the man who you claim to be the pope, I am a valid priest.
    Certainly... Christ, high priest and unique mediator, has made of the Church "a kingdom, priests for his God and Father." The whole community of believers is, as such, priestly. The faithful exercise their baptismal priesthood through their participation, each according to his own vocation, in Christ's mission as priest, prophet, and king. Through the sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation the faithful are "consecrated to be . . . a holy priesthood."

    But you are not an ORDAINED priest= a presbyter, from the Greek πρεσβύτερος, presbęteros, which is conferred by the cheirotonia, ("Laying-on of Hands"), or Holy Orders... something quite different than what you are asserting.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 11:39 AM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    Opinions vary obviously, but again we come back to the question of how to decide who is right? :)

    The Bible. We find that there are only 12 apostles and no more (other than jesus who is described as "The Apostle"). Thus there is no apostolic succession.

    Quote:

    But you are not an ORDAINED priest= a presbyter, from the Greek πρεσβύτερος, presbęteros, which is conferred by the cheirotonia, ("Laying-on of Hands"), or Holy Orders... something quite different than what you are asserting.
    The Bible records that the ordained priesthood was done away with.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 11:40 AM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    Opinions vary obviously, but again we come back to the question of how to decide who is right? :)

    The Bible. We find that there are only 12 apostles and no more (other than jesus who is described as "The Apostle"). Thus there is no apostolic succession.

    Quote:

    But you are not an ORDAINED priest= a presbyter, from the Greek πρεσβύτερος, presbęteros, which is conferred by the cheirotonia, ("Laying-on of Hands"), or Holy Orders... something quite different than what you are asserting.
    The Bible records that the ordained priersthood was done away with. I would say that being a priest with a ministry gioven by God is better than a manmade priesthood of a denomination in any case.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 11:47 AM
    ScottRC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    The Bible. We find that there are only 12 apostles and no more (other than jesus who is described as "The Apostle"). Thus there is no apostolic succession.

    Obviously that is your opinion... and it was not shared by anyone who was directly tought by the Apostles.

    Yours is a SERIOUS misinterpretation of Clement and Ignatius, since both of them recognized the three-fold ministry of bishop-presbyter-deacon.

    "Take care, then who belong to God and to Jesus Christ - they are with the bishop. ....Do not err, my brethren: if anyone follow a schismatic, he will not inherit the Kingdom of God. .....Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: for there is one Flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one Cup in the union of His Blood; one altar, as there is one bishop with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons." (St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Philadelphians 3:2-4:1)

    "You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the Apostles. Reverence the deacons as you would the command of God. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." (Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans 8:1-2)

    And who was the bishop for these Smyrneans? It was Polycarp! And Polycarp is the one who gives us the key to understanding our dispute here. For, as we know, Ignatius speaks of Polycarp several times as "the bishop of Smyrna." And Polycarp never objects to this, or acts as if he does not possess monarchial authority in Smyrna. Yet, when Polycarp writes to the Philippians, he does not call himself "the bishop," but rather introduces himself saying,

    "Polycarp, and the presbyters with him, to the Church of God sojourning at Philippi: Mercy to you, and peace from God Almighty, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, our Savior, be multiplied."

    Polycarp was tought DIRECTLY by the Apostle John.

    Seems the Apostles don't agree with your interpretation of Scripture.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 06:21 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    Obviously that is your opinion... and it was not shared by anyone who was directly tought by the Apostles.

    Scripture states specifically how many Apostles there have and will be. It is not opinion (other than perhaps God's and I hope you would not challenge that as "only God's opinion")
    Quote:

    Yours is a SERIOUS misinterpretation of Clement and Ignatius, since both of them recognized the three-fold ministry of bishop-presbyter-deacon.
    I note that you immediately try to refute scripture with opinions of men.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 06:22 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    Obviously that is your opinion... and it was not shared by anyone who was directly tought by the Apostles.

    Scripture states specifically how many Apostles there have been and will be. It is not opinion (other than perhaps God's and I hope you would not challenge that as "only God's opinion")
    Quote:

    Yours is a SERIOUS misinterpretation of Clement and Ignatius, since both of them recognized the three-fold ministry of bishop-presbyter-deacon.
    I note that you immediately try to refute scripture with opinions of men - ironic!
  • Jul 31, 2008, 06:32 PM
    ScottRC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    I note that you immediately try to refute scripture with opinions of men - ironic!

    Ironic is that you continually give your opinions to show how others opinions don't matter...
  • Jul 31, 2008, 07:21 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    Ironic is that you continually give your opinions to show how others opinions don't matter.....

    So you downplay scripture as opinions, but the private interpretations of your denomination as mandatory. Hmmm
  • Jul 31, 2008, 07:22 PM
    N0help4u
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    So you downplay scripture as opinions, but the private interpretations of your denomination as mandatory. hmmm

    Exactly what I have been picking up from De Marie and what is being said in these posts on Mary, purgatory and sola scriptura. It is ironic.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 09:49 PM
    ScottRC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    So you downplay scripture as opinions, but the private interpretations of your denomination as mandatory. hmmm

    You can try to twist my words any way you'd like... I'm confident that most who read this will notice that I never once said that "the private interpretations of your denomination as mandatory"... it's simply just a lie on your part.

    Please remember, I'm just explaining what I believe... I don't have problem at all with what you believe and don't judge your salvation.

    From the hateful and anti-catholic rhetoric on the site you've put in your signature, I doubt you extend me the same level of love and respect.

    To each his/her own. God alone will judge.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 10:11 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    You can try to twist my words any way you'd like... I'm confident that most who read this will notice that I never once said that "the private interpretations of your denomination as mandatory"... it's simply just a lie on your part.

    Abuse does not help. It is not a lie - as you can see I am not the only one getting that impression. In another thread you call those who disagree with you denomination's view of the Bible as "stupid".

    Quote:

    From the hateful and anti-catholic rhetoric on the site you've put in your signature, I doubt you extend me the same level of love and respect.
    I put "Discernment Resources" and "Last Days Bible Conference" in my signature, and that is hateful and "anti-catholic"?

    Which do you find hateful and anti-catholic, discernment or a conference on the Bible?

    Perhaps lowering the level of abuse at those who disagree with you would reduce the impression that you are insisting that we accept your denomination's poisition.
  • Jul 31, 2008, 11:01 PM
    ScottRC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    It is not a lie - as you can see I am not the only one getting that impression.

    Well, it's certainly not the truth... please show me where I said Catholic interpretations are mandatory for you or any non-Catholic to believe or retract the statement. Simple really.
    Quote:

    Perhaps lowering the level of abuse at those who disagree with you would reduce the impression that you are insisting that we accept your denomination's poisition.
    I think you are just fine where you are... and I certainly would not refer to your faith as a "cult" or any of the other garbage on the "discern" site:

    "Roman Catholicism is not truly Christian, but is in fact, the largest and oldest "Christian" cult in the world."

    "The blasphemous dogmas of this official Catholic catechism reveal the blindness and wickedness of those "evangelicals" who are calling for closer relationships with Romanism."


    Abuse? I think this site takes the cake.:cool:
  • Aug 1, 2008, 05:20 AM
    sndbay
    2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
  • Aug 1, 2008, 06:39 AM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    Well, it's certainly not the truth... please show me where I said Catholic interpretations are mandatory for you or any non-Catholic to believe or retract the statement. Simple really.

    Your attitude is clear.

    - On this thread where I disagreed with your denomination, you said that I and others were stupid.
    - On another thread today, you said that Luther, believing in the non-Catholic canon was in heresy.
    - On that same thread, you said that to believe what the New Catholic Encyclopedia itself said about the Council of Trent was an error (it disagrees with the official position of your denomination).

    These and many other statements make it clear that you are putting forward your denominations's position as the standard of truth, and no matter what documentation we put fiorward, even if it comes from within your denomination, it is wrong.

    Now, if you want this percpetion held by myself and others to go away, then start dealing with the facts and the evidence and stop calling us stupid and liars.

    Quote:

    I think you are just fine where you are... and I certainly would not refer to your faith as a "cult" or any of the other garbage on the "discern" site:

    "Roman Catholicism is not truly Christian, but is in fact, the largest and oldest "Christian" cult in the world."

    "The blasphemous dogmas of this official Catholic catechism reveal the blindness and wickedness of those "evangelicals" who are calling for closer relationships with Romanism."

    It is interesting that you chose not to post the link as to where specifically you found this so that the context could be seen - and without noting that this lcomment is NOT found anywhere on my site, but rather on someone else's site.

    Now as for how you refer to my faith, I guess that you feel calling us liars and stupid is showing love and respect. Note that your comments go after the person.
  • Aug 1, 2008, 07:37 AM
    Peter Wilson
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by De Maria
    No. That is Luther's teaching. "Sin and sin mightily and grace will abound the more." Of course that is completely against Scripture:

    Actually, I was so liking the lifestyle I was in, that I decided not to follow god at that time, I don't know how you got that verse to answer what I did at that time, I wasn't looking for forgiveness, I wanted to continue in my sin, which I did for a further 15 years.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by De Maria
    Romans 6 1 What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid.

    How many Protestants have I spoken to who claim that ALL their sins, past and present have been forgiven simply because they made a profession of faith. Tons and tons. Sorry, but that is a Protestant teaching. Not Catholic at all.


    Actually, we are forgiven for all our sin when we turn from sin (repent) confess our faults to Jesus, the ONLY mediator between man and God
    1 Timothy 2
    5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
    6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
    If we believe (the Faith) that Jesus became a curse on that cross, and paid the penalty for our sins, then if we accept that sacrifice,(the free and most precious gift of God to man, the life of His only Son) as our own, then we receive forgiveness of sin, by the grace and mercy of the Father.
    If we think that we can pay for our own sin by penance or works, then Jesus death was worthless.
    If we confess our sin, then we should believe God when He says that that sin is gone.

    1 John 1
    6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

    7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    I still sin, we all do, but if we recognize our sin, then it is my advice, to keep short accounts with God.
    It is not as if we are confessing to God, all we are doing is agreeing with Him, He already knows we sinned, He is just waiting for us to come into agreement.
    He judges the thoughts and intents of the heart, there is nothing hidden, best release it to Him and receive forgiveness.
    There is a flip side to this, if we do not believe that Jesus sacrifice was enough, we agree with the devil, and open a door of oppression, guilt and shame that does not belong to us.
    Jesus already took that to the cross.
    It also opens up the opportunity for the devil to bring the curse on our lives.
    God's law cannot be broken, it is eternal, but it is there for our good not for evil.
    however, satan takes advantage of the law and if we have broken it, satan ( his name means accuser) goes before God and accuses us.
    If we harbour that sin in our hearts, and don't bring it to the feet of Jesus, satan has a legal right to bring the curse of death on our lives, in one form or another.
    Look at Job, satan could not touch him without God's word, look at 1 Corinthians 15

    56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by De Maria

    Just hit the Enter button after you've completed an idea. And that way you'll build a better more readable message.

    Thanks, I will take your advice on this one.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by De Maria
    Yeah. And its all Catholic. Apparently you've received the gift of prophecy but not the gift of interpretation.

    In the first dream you were in the CATHOLIC Church praying and you were taken up TO SAFETY.

    Actually, it was raining blood and fire on the catholic church and I was taken out of there, then taken back to before the world was formed and I was shown that God has pre-destined me from way back then, as I believe He has for us all.
    Rev 8
    7 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.

    The first of the judgements of God on the earth.
    It is our choice to follow the Holy Spirit and Gods will for our lives or follow the teachings of man.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by De Maria
    In the 2nd dream, the Post which you were clinging to is the Pillar of Truth, the Church. And when you were pulled away, you were standing on the precipice of hell.

    Wrong again, I was happy doing my own thing in life, I would try anything, any sin was okay, particularly sexual sin. The shape in the ball was like a coffin, and the cave, the grave.
    The underground cavern, was a place of drunkenness and selfish gratification.
    The hole and the heat and the flickering of flames on the walls, was definitely the gates of hell, with the devil drawing me down with my own selfish lusts.
    When I called out to Jesus, He was right there, He saved me from the sin that was drawing me into Hell.
    He that calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved (Rom 10:13)

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by De Maria
    In the 3rd dream, you were in the Ark and safe, the Ark has always been a symbol of the Barque of Peter, the Catholic Church. But YOU made a shambles of the Ark, you sunk it and then you drowned..

    Wrong again, the ark, according to 1Peter 3

    18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

    20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)
    by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

    Here, even Peter says that baptism is the answer of a good conscience toward God.
    Did you have a good conscience toward god before you were baptized?
    It is accepted that baptism is an adult decision to follow Christ.
    It also has the symbolism of death, burial and resurrection.
    This is the meaning of the dream, the ark, symbolic of baptism, is used to destroy the enemy, sin. Then there was a dying under water, and resurrection, e.g.. "I may as well wake up!"
    Romans 6

    3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


    6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

    7For he that is dead is freed from sin.



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by De Maria
    Obviously, God is calling you back to the Catholic Church, but Satan is keeping you in his grip.

    Repent, go to confession and reconcile yourself to God and His Church



    Did you try the spirit? Because that wasn't the Holy Spirit who spoke to you. If you were Baptized Catholic, you need not be baptized again.



    I was "baptized?" a catholic, but I put no credibility on it. My brother is God father to a number of children in the catholic faith, yet never goes to church and lives to please himself... [/QUOTE]



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by De Maria
    Read the Scripture:

    Matthew 7 21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.



    Everything I do and that I believe, can be found in the bible, without twisting scripture to fit the doctrine.
    God's word is as plain as the nose on your face, He doesn't really make it that hard to find Him.
    I don't believe that a God that would give His son to die for us, would send us to burn in excruciating pain for centuries to pay for the sin that was too much for Jesus to handle.
    what about the thief on the cross, seems he jumped right over purgatory straight into paradise.
    What about those that will be still alive when Jesus returns, to be forever with the Lord.
    Will they have to say, hang on Jesus, you didn't finish the work you were sent for, I just have to burn for a few centuries, thank you for your loving kindness, then jump into the fire. I think not!

    1 Thessalonians 4
    13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

    14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

    15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.



    Have a good weekend, grace and peace to you.
  • Aug 1, 2008, 07:38 AM
    Peter Wilson
    That didn't work right, how do you do the quote to be high lighted, thanks.
  • Aug 1, 2008, 07:39 AM
    rhadsen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    It is interesting that you chose not to post the link as to where specifically you found this so that the context could be seen.

    Where did those quotes come from? I would like to see the context.
  • Aug 1, 2008, 07:39 AM
    ScottRC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3
    It is interesting that you chose not to post the link as to where specifically you found this so that the context could be seen.

    It's a site YOU linked to... you need me to show you what's on it? :confused:
    Quote:

    Now as for how you refer to my faith, I guess that you feel calling us liars and stupid is showing love and respect. Note that your comments go after the person.
    **YAWN**
  • Aug 1, 2008, 08:00 AM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    It's a site YOU linked to... you need me to show you what's on it? :confused:

    **YAWN**

    Ah, so you lied when you said:

    "I think you are just fine where you are.... and I certainly would not refer to your faith as a "cult" or any of the other garbage on the "discern" site:"

    This is not on the "discern" site after all, and I did not say it.

    Perhaps it is you who should now apologize, and rather than trying to demean your opponents through false accusations and name-calling, deal with the issue!
  • Aug 1, 2008, 09:17 AM
    rhadsen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottRC
    It's a site YOU linked to... you need me to show you what's on it? :confused:

    **YAWN**

    Nowhere did he ask you to show him what's on it. If I'm understanding him correctly, he was saying that you should have posted the link for those of us who may be checking in from time to time.

    The quote above from your post Scott does little to move the discussion forward. It just emotionally charges the discussion. That is not to say that Tj3 might have been more careful in regards to what he linked to.

    Rob
  • Aug 1, 2008, 09:26 AM
    ScottRC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rhadsen
    Nowhere did he ask you to show him what's on it. If I'm understanding him correctly, he was saying that you should have posted the link for those of us who may be checking in from time to time.

    Fair enough... I just thought it amusing that I'm supposed to give HIM a quote that he uses in his signature.

    1. Go to Discern.ca
    2. Click Roman Catholicism
    3. Go to the bottom of the page where you will see:
    4. Other Links
    Various Articles on Catholicism

    You'll forgive me if I don't post any more of the hate-speach from that site... this step-by-step will have to be enough.
    Quote:

    The quote above from your post Scott does little to move the discussion forward.
    Hence the **YAWN** crack... I hope this will be quite enough of this... and we can get back to Purgatory.
    Quote:

    That is not to say that Tj3 might have been more careful in regards to what he linked to.
    Glad you agree.
  • Aug 1, 2008, 10:42 AM
    rhadsen
    ScottRC,

    I've seen it go both ways. There is a website (RC) where there is supposedly a code of conduct - acceptable usage policy that states no ad hominems and to keep it polite, yet the regulars refer to the Reformers as the Deformers & etc. yet if a Protestant doesn't capitalize the word Catholic, all "you know what" breaks loose. The other posters also deliberately "misinterpret" what the Protestant posters say and the other members pile on. Finally, the home team posters will deliberately ride the line on acceptability, then when the Protestant finally bites back he is censured.

    On the other hand, it must be tiring to read a post by a misinformed individual attacking your church with the same tired lines, when all he is doing is parroting something that he's heard. (Which is not to say that I agree with your church's theology.)

    So, I can sympathize.

    Rob

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