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My objection was to your comment that He was "always mentioning, 'My hour has not yet come.' " Now you say the hour had not yet come at a variety of places, and I see your point and it's a good one. I'm simply pointing out that He said it but once, and it did not pertain to His suffering but to His ministry.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.Quote:
Focus on the Cross, not your ministry.
That's just it- you hit the nail on the head. The point being; Jesus didn't come into this world just to pay lip service to the ministry. The answer that Jesus gives is just as perplexing as the one he gave in John 12:20Quote:
I'm simply pointing out that He said it but once, and it did not pertain to His suffering but to His ministry.
He said it but once (not true), and it pertains to his ministry"...Yes. Jesus didn't come into this world just to pay lip service to the ministry. Christ not only proclaims but is the gospel. He is this because He is the manifestation of that which is the very soul of personality. The sacrifice of the Lord Jesus, on which we focus first is necessary. The Lord Jesus will only win the world if he first dies.
Mary, Mother of Jesus, was all about enjoying Jesus (God). The bracing teaching about sacrifice hadn't really been heard...how important it is to try and sound all the notes of scriptureMight be Jesus was talking to those who wish to become his disciple (Pastors)?Quote:
. Focus on the Cross, not your ministry.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
If I am a Preacher and need a heart transplant, do I go for it? I could easily say yes, do it for the ministry(especially if I have the biggest ministry the World has ever seen!) ...where would my head be?
One more: If Paul remained alive, do you think people (entire cities) would have become believers of Paul? Followers of Paul, and his ministry?
@WG, What would be the best way to go about learning basic writing skills?
I see what you mean, I am all over the place.
Where else?Quote:
He said it but once (not true)
Huh?Quote:
If I am a Preacher and need a heart transplant, do I go for it? I could easily say yes, do it for the ministry...where would my head be?
No. The Gospel was never accepted by entire cities. It has always been a minority position.Quote:
One more: If Paul remained alive, do you think people (entire cities) would have become believers of Paul? Followers of Paul, and his ministry?
Okay, let me put it to you this way; If Jesus continued with his ministry (excluding his death), could he have had the entire world believing in him and his ministry?
Look at it this way. How many followers did He have after three years? 120 in the upper room? So at 40 a year, how long would it have taken?
How many would you say, if he had 700 years? being born in the time of Methuselah? IF Jesus never died, what of his ministry then?
You're missing the point. His Ministry was never the issue...never the issue with him (if that helps?).
It's two millennia later. The entire world isn't anywhere close to believing in Him.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Yah, and he died. How much less if he had never died?Quote:
It's two millennia later. The entire world isn't anywhere close to believing in Him.
And communication was very poor back then. I wonder how things would have worked out had He been born in, say, 1990.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
I get that. That's all fine and dandy. When I look into the matter of the wine, wedding, ministry thingy...I get a lot of this> For one thing, something must be lost in translation (Sound familiar?) when Jesus addresses his mother "Woman." And; For another, he says his "hour has not yet come", but he goes ahead and performs the miracle anyway. And: How much of this is because we (or at least I) don't understand the culture and how much of it is due to aspects of their relationship. And; Even though it was not the time to give them his blood, yet he gave them physical wine as a symbol of what he would later provide. One more; Just as this wine came from jars used in ceremonial washing, the blood of Jesus can truly cleanse people from all sin. This wine was so good that the headwaiter exclaimed his delight; the blood that Jesus provides truly satisfies the soul's thirst, and all who taste it will marvel at its quality. This wine helped give physical strength to those who drank it; Yet another; Jesus’ blood provides spiritual life to all who will accept it. I agree, this is acceptable. But, thinking that this is the reason why Jesus was trying to draw attention to when he said, “My hour has not yet come"...To us maybe, but not to him. Tell me he didn't have death on his mind...“For This Cause Came I into the World”?Quote:
I'm simply pointing out that He said it but once, and it did not pertain to His suffering but to His ministry.
It is clear to me, that Jesus didn't want to draw attention to himself or his ministry (something to consider; those doing pastoral work?). When the Feast of Tabernacles was approaching, Jesus’ brothers tried to encourage him to go to Judea and act publicly so he could show himself to the world, but Jesus said, “My time is not yet here.” He eventually did go to the feast in a not-so-public way, and while he taught in the temple, the leaders desired to seize him, but, “No man laid his hand on him, because his hour had not yet come.” (John 7:30) A few days later he was again teaching in the temple, and the crowd was enraged by his claims, yet still, “No one seized him, because his hour had not yet come.” (John 8:20) In all three cases, Jesus was trying to avoid bringing attention to himself. Jesus didn't come to minister to us, he came to do God's will, per se.Quote:
"We want to see Jesus"-you can't see Jesus...you'll have to go to the cross if you want to see Jesus
Quick note: coincidently enough, you see the same confusion regarding John 12:20, as you do in John 2:1-11. Hmmm?
If the ministry of the Lord Jesus had ended after the razing of Lazarus, his influence would have been superficial. His ministry would have been a failure, nobody would be changed, there would be no forgiveness of sins.Quote:
How many followers did He have after three years? 120 in the upper room? So at 40 a year, how long would it have taken?
Keep on going, Walter. You're thinking things through.
I'm nearly done.
Jesus is essentially saying to Mary, “My hour to die is not yet come, so don’t pressure me to do something that might bring that about!”
Jesus’ vision never stalled-out on death
Now I'z Gots to wonder, was Jesus afeared of Death???
I don't think it's disrespectful to acknowledge that the Lord Jesus, as a human being who was tempted in all points of human vulnerability (Romans 8:3; Hebrews 4:15), should have entertained an occasional moment of anxiety?
1. Wasn't this Jesus' first miracle?
2. Was this the beginning of His ministry?
3. What was His ministry supposed to accomplish?
Possibly (but I doubt it). First, recorded Miracle?Quote:
Wasn't this Jesus' first miracle?
After his baptism? I haven't put much thought into it. Curious; something to do with his blood (the water into wine) at the wedding, with relation to the end of his ministry, raising of Lazarus (the Greeks, aka. the world, entering the picture...wanting to see)? I believe his life was the ministry.Quote:
Was this the beginning of His ministry?
Fulfillment of the Law, Sacrifice?Quote:
What was His ministry supposed to accomplish?
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