 |
ZachZ its blatantly apparently that you asked a question which you DO NOT Truly want an answer to. It seems that you get off on yourself righteous and rather annoying attempts to entrap well meaning christians in a game of semantics. Therefore, Im over it.
May God give you clarity.
Zach it is blatantly apparent that you DO NOT Truly want an answer to this question. It seems that you get off on entrapping well meaning Christians in yourself righteous and rather annoying game of semantics. Therefore I'm done. May God give you clarity
Actually I really, truly do want an answer. Why can't an answer be provided? How is exposing such a fundamental internal contradiction about such a fundamental cornerstone of your faith an "annoying game of semantics"?Quote:
Originally Posted by pnkrkmama
I can only show you the way back, you have to walk down it.
May God indeed grant you clarity, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachZ
Zach Z
if you want the truth and answers than you have to be willing to hear everything that is being said not defend or retaliate against everything being said.
The answers to your questions have already been given to you and they are the answers that reference certain text of the Bible. If you are familiar with the Bible remember Pilate talking to Jesus right before handing him over to be crucified in John 18
"37 Pilate said, “So you are a king?”
Jesus responded, “You say I am a king. Actually, I was born and came into the world to testify to the truth. All who love the truth recognize that what I say is true.”
Those that truly seek to know the Truth will hear it and understand it.
The Bible says that God's ways are higher than our understanding and we can not begin to fathom the spiritual because it is beyond our mental capabilities. Just like a kid has to trust its parents even though he can't understand and piece together the way things are because he doesn't understand doesn't make what he doesn't comprehend not so.
You have to look at things from a spiritual concept and that is about impossible to do if you do not even believe in spiritual things. Like how is a skeptic to believe ghosts exist until they encounter one themselves. If you want to understand you first go beyond your comprehension and have to open your spiritual eyes and heart
How can we be sure that we're not hearing lies dressed up as truth? One the ways we can tell is when what's being said contradicts Torah. Another way is when what's being said contradicts itself! You believe God requires belief in self-contradictory concepts? Thank goodness Torah teaches otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain_man
In your case I would say start by answering do you believe there is a supreme being WHOEVER He may be? Can you accept that the supreme being created the universe and work on what you can find believable about a creator and go from there.
If you are an Atheist skeptic we can never come up with answers that will suit you.
If you are searching for answers because you do want to believe then you have to take the basics you do believe and maybe build on that to the extent you are able to believe.
You seem to be another person who thinks that belief in God requires total disengagement of the brain, and abandonment of logic and reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
Often-quoted from Isaiah 1: "Come now, and let us reason together, says the LORD". God does not requirement abandonment of all reason. Can any religion that hinges on such a requirement be true?
Of course I do! If for some reason it hasn't become clear yet: I believe in God -- the ONE God of Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachZ
We can be sure we are not hearing lies because of a personal relationship with God.
Do you have a personal relationship with the god represented in the Torah? If so, how?
Also, if you are basing all "contradictions" against the Torah then why are you posting and needing to know so vehemently the question in the OP. Does that question even matter if you know what the Torah teaches as being true? Just something to consider
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachZ
OKAY I wasn't sure cause some of the things you say are just like skeptics and atheists say.
Can you tell me then, since you believe in the Torah, how you rationalize why God would demand sacrifices of animals? Can you tell me the logic in that in order to please God and whatever significance it has to you that makes sense?
This is a subjective answer that is easily proven unsatisfactory: Catholics believe they have a valid, personal relationship with God, and pray to Mary. Mormons believe they have a valid, personal relationship with God, and believe we can all become gods. Muslims believe they have a valid, personal relationship with God, and deny the trinity. Zoroastrians believe they have a valid, personal relationship with God... Heck, even the Heaven's Gate cult who committed mass suicide at the approach of comet Hale-Bopp in 1997 believed they had a valid, personal relationship with God! Are they ALL right because they "feel" they are? The Jewish bible warns against exactly this sort of subjective "feeling" as justification for your religion: 1 Kings 18:Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain_man
So we know that 'feeling' is not enough. There are externally-verifiable requirements. I have pointed out an internal contradiction in Christian dogma. I have shown that 'feeling' is not enough. Can you not address the point of the OP?Quote:
In the 18th chapter of I Kings, the Bible relates that when Elijah had challenged 450 priests of Baal to bring a sacrifice to their gods and see if their offering would be miraculously accepted with fire, there was a peculiar spectacle which followed. It seemed as though there was no doubt in the minds of these pagan worshipers that Baal would hear their supplications and consume their bullock with a heavenly fire. The Bible vividly recounts how they enthusiastically entreated Baal and prayed fervidly for a miracle all day. They even climbed on top of the altar and began to prance beside their sacrifice, and when that failed to secure a response from their gods, in their frantic zeal they used knives and lancets to slice away flesh from their bodies. These prophets of Baal were on fire for their gods. Regardless of their unyielding zeal for their idols, they were commanded to turn away from these abominations.
Yes, but that would be going down yet another tangent path. It should suffice for me to point out that there is nothing internally contradictory about understanding the plain Torah text regarding sacrifices at face value. This is not a parallel concept to the explanation of the resurrection, which does have that problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
But it still is something you have to take by faith of why God would do something like that.
It is something that really doesn't make much sense in a human reasoning so I would think if you can take that leap of faith. Also the Torah does teach in the three and you believe in the three just not the way Christians do. I take it you are a Jew and God says he loves the Jew first and then the gentile so maybe you don't even need to worry about the trinity being one. I don't know.
"Jesus is the way the truth and the light NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him"Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachZ
I'll take that as your inability to come up with a relevant response.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain_man
You are right that 'feeling' or putting your faith in a denomination is not enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachZ
I do not trust religions because they give you man made formulas.
That is why I said to ask God to open your spiritual eyes and heart and ask him to reveal himself to you. The Bible says pray and seek the truth and study the word and he will lead you.
ZachZ to answer the OP...
He (Jesus) is fully God and fully Man like you said and He came back to life after 3 days... who did that, He did, He is fully God and fully man.
That is fairly easy for me to understand, to try to explain it in some deeply theologolical way would be to discredit that fundamental tenant of the faith
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachZ
You asked if they were all right and I posted my response, that to me is a relevant response
Who says my spiritual 'eyes' are not already open? Who says He has not already revealed Himself to me? Who says I do not already wear kippah, tallis and tefillin and pray daily?Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
If you claim that because I do not 'feel' what you think you feel, you're back to arguing against what you yourself just agreed with!
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:46 PM. |