Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freethinka

No Starman do not get me wrong I enjoy the dialoge, however as it relater to the bible, my only quary , is its authenticity. Is it true that a heritic by the name of Martin Luther was imprisoned for his disbelief of what was in the original text, because he was a firm heritic , he was put on a diet of worms by the then king, and made to translate the bible to German. Later printed as the king james version. I would also like to say sorry if I offended you. and I hope you accept my apology.

---

Apology accepted

Martin Luther was considered a heretic along with all other Protestants who disagreed with Catholic Church dogma and its practices. But that has absolutely no bearing on the Bible which remains true to itself.

History of the Bible: How The Bible Came To Us


Martin Luther's translation wasn't the King James which was a translation from the original languages into English. Luther's translation was from the original languages into German. The King James version was translated by a group of scholars appointed by the English king.

History of the King James Version


Actually, the best testimony to the Bible's authenticity is its prophetic innerancy. That's why I provided links in my otherv posts to where the reader can check out the fulfilled prophecies if he wishes to do so.


BTW

About Luther eating worms and being forced to translate, I find no mention of it in his biography. Martin Luther - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did you read that on the Internet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J_9

WHAT!!!!!!!!!???????????

Do you and I live in the same body? No, I don't think so and I sure am glad we don't.

---

No!! Me and no human live in the same body, however there are cases where (2) persons are living in the same body(conjoined) there is enough living proof of this, I wasn't referring to that segment of persons. I don't want anyone to cast me out as stupid or the like Fr chuck, implication of silly. My point remain every man has satan and god inside. If not, here is a good example: evil is needed to recognize good, any man who claim that he is all good (God} without satan is a LIAR. A liar not only to himself, but to those around him. I hope you see, what I am getting at, but I would like to humbly say, that my statement may seem blunt, and I am not directing them at anyone in this forum, but like I said previously sorry for being so strong, it is just that I have a yearning desire for truth, but I am bombarded with insults, and the usual if you die or your child die?? My question is why christians always introduce grim messages of death to nonbelievers or loved family members, what a low blow:o in life any thing can happen to anyone of us, including you:o not threatening anyone, but only showing the difference of, non believers, we do not go around wishing ill or death to people, or their loved ones, because they are not persuaded of the truth (believe) in the life after death story that believers forcfully shove at its victims, in hopes of persuasion. I cry SHAME to the believers who continue to do this psycho-logic warfare to frighten persons to conviction then thydeing is the penalty. :cool: Please don't have me censored, or dumped off this wonderful site. The authentic God be with youall.

[QUOTE=Freethinka]

Quote:

---

... any man who claim that he is all good (God} without Satan is a LIAR. A liar not only to himself, but to those around him.

---

If you mean that we all sin and cannot claim to be totally pure then I agree with you and so do the scriptures.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned. And fall short of the glory of God

Romans 7:14-25

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin

Quote:

---

I hope you see, what I am getting at, but I would like to humbly say, that my statement may seem blunt, and I am not directing them at anyone in this forum, but like I said previously sorry for being so strong, it is just that I have a yearning desire for truth, but I am bombarded with insults, and the usual if you die or your child die?? My question is why Christians always introduce grim messages of death to nonbelievers or loved family members, what a low blow:o in life any thing can happen to anyone of us, including you:o not threatening anyone, but only showing the difference of, non believers, we do not go around wishing ill or death to people, or their loved ones, because they are not persuaded of the truth (believe) in the life after death story that believers forcefully shove at its victims, in hopes of persuasion. I cry SHAME to the believers who continue to do this psychologic warfare to frighten persons to conviction then dying is the penalty. Cool: Please don't have me censored, or dumped off this wonderful site. The authentic God be with youall.

---

First, your seeking truth is commendable and I am truly sorry that I misunderstood your intentions. Second, about the manner of preaching, I agree with you 100%. Wishing death and evil on others isn't the true Christian way. Quite to the contrary, Christians are supposed to pray for the well-being of unbelievers so that they too might be blessed. Neither is judging another person as damned to eternity since no one on this Earth is qualified to make that evaluation.

BTW

When I was a kid my parents were regularly visited by a certain Charismatic self- righteous woman whose shouted message was the threat of eternal torture if we didn't comply with her demands to attend her church. For some strange reason I never could take her seriously. In fact, neither did my parents. Yet, the threats were intended to intimidate into obedience. But if we read the Bible we don't find Christians being assigned to threaten people with damnation. The main thrust of the message Jesus wants us to convey is that of hope of alleviation from suffering and death that will come about under his kingdom rule.

[QUOTE=Starman]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freethinka

If you mean that we all sin and cannot claim to be totally pure then I agree with you and so do the scriptures.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned. and fall short of the glory of God

Romans 7:14-25

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin




First, your seeking truth is commendable and I am truly sorry that I misunderstood your intentions. Second, about the manner of preaching, I agree with you 100%. Wishing death and evil on others isn't the true Christian way. Quite to the contrary, Christians are supposed to pray for the well-being of unbelievers so that they too might be blessed. Neither is judging another person as damned to eternity since no one on this Earth is qualified to make that evaluation.

BTW

When I was a kid my parents were regularly visited by a certain Charismatic self- righteous woman whose shouted message was the threat of eternal torture if we didn't comply with her demands to attend her church. For some strange reason I never could take her seriously. In fact, neither did my parents. Yet, the threats were intended to intimidate into obedience. But if we read the Bible we don't find Christians being assigned to threaten people with damnation. The main thrust of the message Jesus wants us to convey is that of hope of alleviation from suffering and death that will come about under his kingdom rule.

---

I accept your apology, :) and I am also happy to know you see, where I am coming from, from inception Freethinka wasn't trying to be rude. Only trying to paint pictures with words, to get my point across.

Enjoy your day :)

I believe there is no god because I don't understand how its possible and where he came from. And there's no proof. Then again I do wonder how we are all here or if we really even are here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starman

Apology accepted

Martin Luther was considered a heretic along with all other Protestants who disagreed with Catholic Church dogma and its practices. But that has absolutely no bearing on the Bible which remains true to itself.

History of the Bible: How The Bible Came To Us


Starman Martin Luther's translation wasn't the King James which was a translation from the original languages into English. Luther's translation was from the original languages into German. The King James version was translated by a group of scholars appointed by the English king.

History of the King James Version


Actually, the best testimony to the Bible's authenticity is its prophetic innerancy. That's why I provided links in my otherv posts to where the reader can check out the fulfilled prophecies if he wishes to do so.


BTW

About Luther eating worms and being forced to translate, I find no mention of it in his biography. Martin Luther - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did you read that on the Internet?

---

Enter into your search engine "Martin Luther given worms to translate the bible" and look up "English bible translation". I didn't know that Martin Luther was an alcoholic, he drank allot of beer when he translated the bible, also a profanitist, using the word () loosely Martin Luther also said to (love God), but as a heretic he publicly stated he (hated god). How do you feel about Martin Luther :o

The internet is not a valid reference. You can find webpages that claim that the moon is made of cheese and that the most powerful politicians in the world are actually lizardmen disguised as humans.

You need to provide better evidence than "put it in your search engine".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capuchin

The internet is not a valid reference. You can find webpages that claim that the moon is made of cheese and that the most powerful politicians in the world are actually lizardmen disguised as humans.

You need to provide better evidence than "put it in your search engine".

---

Capucin, you are not telling Freethinka you are afraid to look, Starman asked if it was on the internet, how could you automatically dismiss Martin Luther as false. It is he who translated the bible from its original text to German. "Text don't bite". :o
.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kt1205

i believe there is no god because i dont understand how its possible and where he came from. and theres no proof. then again i do wonder how we are all here or if we really even are here.

---

Kkti205 first you would have to recognise who you are, this could only be achieved in solitude once you know who you are, without any dogmatic, spiritual doctrine, to compromise thoughts or being, you would be on the right track. Secondly take a closer look at things around you, in its wonderous glory. It wouldn't be long before you make contact with the real God :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freethinka

Enter into your search engine "Martin Luther given worms to translate the bible" and look up "English bible translation." I didn't know that Martin Luther was an alcoholic, he drank allot of beer when he translated the bible, also a profanitist, using the word () loosely Martin Luther also said to (love God), but as a heretic he publicly stated he (hated god). How do you feel about Martin Luther :o

---

Here is what I found.
The word "Diet" also means assembly. Worms is a city in Europe. So the Diet of Worms means an assembly held by the Catholic Church in the city of Worms in order to address the issues brought forth by Luther's challenge to Catholic authority.

Diet of Worms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Luther metaphorically refers to being drunk or engorged with the teachings of the papacy to the extent of being unable to see things clearly.

Excerpt:

The reader should know that I was once a monk, the most rabid of papists, when I took up this whole affair. I was so drunk, so submerged in the pope's doctrines, that I was ready, if I could, to kill or help kill those who would have advocated by so much as a single syllable withdrawing obedience to the pope. That's how much of a Saul I was [i.e. St. Paul, who, before his conversion, was called Saul and who was zealous in his persecution of Christians], as many still are. I wasn't so icy cold in defending the papacy as was Eck and those like him, who seemed to me to defend the pope more for the sake of their bellies than through serious commitment. To this day they seem to me to be laughing at the pope like Epicureans. I took the matter seriously because I had a horrible fear of the Last Day, yet still wished from the depths of my heart to be saved.

Consequently you will find that, in my earlier writings, I most humbly conceded many important things to the pope, things which I later detested and now detest as being the greatest blasphemy and abomination. Therefore, dear reader, kindly ascribe this error or, as my calumniators call it, this contradiction to the time and to my inexperience. At first I was alone and surely much too inept and unlearned to be dealing with such matters. For, as God is my witness, it was by accident and not by my own will or desire that I got involved in all this turmoil.


Martin Luther, preface to Latin works (1545)

About Luther's hatred:

One thing to keep in mind about Luther was that his experience as a monk was very frustrating to him. During most of that time he was under the impression that he was never approved totally by God because he felt that his efforts to please God were too meager and tainted with sin. In short, he was depending on works and not Grace to achieve a good standing and because of his misunderstanding of God's requirements hated the righteousness required of him buy God. Actually, this amounted to his hating his own concepts of God based on his misunderstanding of God.


Excerpt
“I labored diligently and anxiously as to how to understand Paul's words in Romans 1:17 where he says, 'The righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel.' I saw the difference, that law is one thing and gospel another. I broke through, and as I had formerly hated the expression 'the righteousness of God,' I now began to regard it as my dearest and most comforting word, so that this expression of Paul's became to me in very truth a gate to paradise.”

But this was before his realization and enlightenment and subsequent turning away from the CC.

Martin Luther: From Birth to His Conversion (1463-1516)



What do I think about Luther? Well, I believe that his efforts were a significant step toward the restoration of 1st century Christianity. But even after his efforts and their immediate results there was still much more to be done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fightn_tha_goodfight

the natural man can't understand Spiritual things, so if you want to know the mysteries of My GOD the Father of heaven and earth, let me ask you something, if you died right now where would you go? lets set aside the philosophy and the natural answers and look to your heart and ask the question.

---

Fightn_tha_good_fight: If I die right now. I don't know where I would go. Like every man that had died they couldn't tell you where they went, when they died, and like every man who is alive presently, when they die they do not know where they will be going. I cannot say it any other way, because any other way is only assumption. "Sorry to say, simply my truth"...

I don't have to make you silly, you talk about yourself in the third person, don't state your own opinions about anything, and only post questions that you can attack and cause trouble, So you make yourself silly very easy,

You play games to try and attack others, and sadly want to draw people into discussions where you don't really want an answer but a chance to challenge things you don't even believe in to start with.

You come into Christianity and merely attempt to make fun of it, sorry but if you don't really want to learn and if you don't really want to find Jesus and convert it is easy to see why you are here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I don't have to make you silly, you talk about yourself in the third person, don't state your own opinions about anything, and only post questions that you can attack and cause trouble, So you make yourself silly very easy,

You play games to try and attack others, and sadly want to draw people into discussions where you don't really want an answer but a chance to challenge things you don't even belive in to start with.

You come into Christianity and merely attempt to make fun of it, sorry but if you don't really want to learn and if you don't really want to find Jesus and convert it is easy to see why you are here.

---

Fr Chuck look as if I really am bringing out your unholy side, why are you so angry if I wore out my welcome on this site you can let me know and I would make it my last post. I am tired of being personally verbally attacked by a God fearing man. Respect due to senior members I am a junior member I understand how it works.

J_9 sorry, but J_9 has to agree with the good father. Freethinka look like an idiot.

You see you come here not to ask realistic questions, but rather to start debates that are not winnable, you refer to yourself in the third person, etc. I could go on, but I don't have all night.

Just know that J_9 is watching your posts.

Quote:

---

In Internet terminology, a troll is someone who intentionally posts messages about sensitive topics constructed to cause controversy in an online community such as an online discussion forum or USENET groups in order to bait users into responding.[1] They may also plant images and data on networks that others may find disturbing in order to cause confrontation.

---

Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why am I reminded of that Seinfeld episode: "Jimmy likes Elaine...Jimmy is sweet on you. Jimmy can jump."