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I believe the Bible specifically tells us what will happen, but others do also, and believe a different thing, so who's to say who's right and who's wrong?? So, why argue? 1 Cor. 8: 9 says you could be a stumbling block to the weak in this way! So, I say, live by the love commandment, read and study your Bible and let only the Holy Spirit, and your pastor, teach and direct you in the way you should believe!
Apparently YOU specifically believe I'm wrong. What you say and what you do seem to be two separate things.
I will teach you the way you should believe, please email me if you want to attend my classes. I have been shown the truth.
As far as I'm concerned the original question has been answered. The Bible is our final authority on all matters.
You can study for yourself. In reference to "turning the other cheek"- many interpret that as wrong as they interpret "unconditional love" So you'll have to look to the pros for that.
The question has been answered- there is nothing left but one's faith.
We agree to disagree. At least I do.
Wrong dear. My answer is correct - no one knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrotia
I fear you have been led down Satan's path. I will pray for you to find your way.
When you die, you die. End of :p
I don't ordinarily defend Hope but in this case I must, along with poppa's opinion - a disagreeing opinion is not "blatantly telling them that their choices are wrong."Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
As for the rest it would have been helpful and proper to cite who said what, but I'll agree Retrotia's comments were unwelcome. So that leaves what, one guilty as charged? ;)
:confused: I hope that you do not do very much out reach because this is not the way to speak to people !Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrotia
Where did I say that I like the devil?? Did you not read all my post's? When I said I can call the Lords name.Quote:
Originally Posted by poppa0777
Just remember we will all be judged one day. But mine will be the right one. Not by a person of this earth ! So please do not judge me or my views because only at my final resting place in the after life will I be judged.
Where have I said anything about following the church of satan?
No wonder the church today is lossing more and more people turning away with the way that I have seen people speak on this forum. I would like to know what give's people the write to tell people that they are not welcome in a section on a global forum, if you where an Admin or Mod of this site then you could say this, are you sceared when people do not see things your way, so you tell them to go away and leave you in peace. I am sure that Jesus would not tell people to get out of his face because they asked a question !
I do not like this my faith is better than yours or my views are better than yours. Remember the Bible is a book of power and meaning and this is viewed by lots of people in lot's of different ways. I can not beleave the nerve of some people on this forum the way they have spoken to others and claimed this to be in the name of God !
I have no problem with people disagring and having different views, but to gang up on people and make silly claims against them is just plain stupid. None of the people I have seen acting bad on this thread have looked at the bigger picture... You are doing out reach on this forum and making people of the Lord brothers and sisters look very bad.
I will keep you in my prayers !
Well, we may have our small differences of opinion on that. I believe love is what you do rather than what you say. And based on that here, I can fully recognize when the evil one has been let in the door.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbler
I don't speak for Poppa0777-we don't need to do that-get others to back us up because we aren't strong enough ourselves to do that-but he's not here & I can tell you that your "position" was unclear when you 1st answered here-& I too thought differently about you for a while. Just my observation.
Back to the quote about me. Consider this passage if you will:
2 Corinthians 10 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
2 Corinthians 10
The Spiritual War
1 Now I, Paul, myself am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ—who in presence am lowly among you, but being absent am bold toward you. 2 But I beg you that when I am present I may not be bold with that confidence by which I intend to be bold against some, who think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
Thank you I will take your passage on board and reflex on it some what.Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrotia
Please take a look at this -->> Romans, chapter 15
1: We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2: Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3: For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
4: For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
5: Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
6: That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7: Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.
8: Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
9: And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
10: And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
11: And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.
12: And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
13: Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
14: And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
15: Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
16: That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17: I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18: For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
19: Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
20: Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
21: But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
22: For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you.
23: But now having no more place in these parts, and having a great desire these many years to come unto you;
24: Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company.
25: But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
26: For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
27: It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
28: When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain.
29: And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
30: Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
31: That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;
32: That I may come unto you with joy by the will of God, and may with you be refreshed.
33: Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
NK,Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Have you been born again? I hope so. That is the truth.
Regards,
Poppa
I do not understand why people do not believe the Bible to be Gods word! The Bible has NEVER been proven wrong! For HUNDREDS of year scholors, scientists, etc. have dedicated their lives to finding faults with the Bible. Yet NO ONE has been able to find faults or places where the Bible contradicts itself!! How could a human being write something with such incredible accuracy?? The point is... NO human being could! However the Koran( Muslim bible) and other religions "bibles" have been found with errors, contradictions, and historical and scientific inaccuracies. This just backs up the fact that the ONLY truth lies in the Holy Bible, Gods word.
This being said you can find the ONLY answer to what happens to you when you die in the Bible!
Romans 3:23-"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and because of that sin we deserve to go to hell!(Rom. 6:23) BUT God provided a way of escape by dying on the cross for our sins (Rom. 5:8) BUT that is not enough. To get to heaven, we must accept his way of escape which is accepting and believing in him! Romans 10:9- "That if thou shalt confess whith thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
... so its not by just being a good person you get to heaven, its by confessing and accepting God to get to heaven.
Many scholars, scientists etc. would disagree very much with this opinion you have formed. Your entitled to it but it doesn't make it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kick277Kate
You do not understand why I don't accept the bible to be the word of God.
I don't understand why you do. But I respect and accept that you do and don't try to make you think otherwise. The same courtesy in return would be much appreciated but often seems unforthcoming from many Christians here.
This thread seems to have deteriorated to the point of name calling, insults and proselytizing the particular brand of religion the poster happens to follow.
It's gotton out of hand and the mods should terminate it. Any time you get into a religious argument emotions run high. Who's right? Who's wrong? Who cares? The following statement was made by one member to another. This should not be tolerated on this site. Debate,yes! Insults,No!
"You are one hateful, miserable dude. If you don't like the religion, change the channel.
Religious freedom. You too Skull. Totally prejudiced bc we aren't like you
You are the ones coming on here bc you want to harass. If this were a church I'd have you arrested for harassment. Go away! RIP!"
Spoken like a true religious fanatic! Doesn't the word "intolerance " just jump right out atcha? I've seen this tactic used many times by the religious whackos outside the cliunic I used to work at. If you're losing a debate then mount a personal attack on your opponent. And that's exactly what's happened here. Iv'e watched this thread go downhill until it's nothing more then a platform for fundamentalists to proselytize there particular brand of religion. The mods should close off this thread as being nonproductive and augmentative.
And it took a atheist to point this out to you people. Go figure!
I have no power or authority in the matter, but since part of the quoted statement was directed at me, here's my take on it. I think it should be allowed to run its course. The longer it goes on, the clearer it becomes who is actually being hateful and intolerant. Maybe if if it gets to the point where nobody is being civil it ought to be terminated, but as long as it's just one or two, I'd just as soon let them show their true colors for all to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedball1
"Originally Posted by Kick277Kate
I do not understand why people do not believe the Bible to be Gods word! The Bible has NEVER been proven wrong! For HUNDREDS of year scholors, scientists, etc. have dedicated their lives to finding faults with the Bible. Yet NO ONE has been able to find faults or places where the Bible contradicts itself!!!"
SAY WHAT?? Gimmi some of that stuff you're smoikin! The Bible's loaded with contradictions.
If you to challenge me on this I'll be more then happy to debate you on it.
Although it won't be much of a debate since all I got to do is Google "Biblical Contradictions" and copy the Biblical passages that contradict each other and all you got to do is disprove them. Should be interesting since I'm at my best when debating logic and reason against faith and belief
I understand you fundamentalists take every word in the Bible as actual truth
But men don't live to be hundreds of years old and the earth really is older then 5000 years. There's just one rule if you're going to debate me on religion.
Don't proselytize me and don't use this debate as a platform to give personal testimony. Also I expect any claim you make to be backed up with fact and proof.
Still want to claim the Bible doesn't contradict itself? I'm going to give you a "A+" for devotion and a "F" for common sense!
Contradictions
God good to all, or just a few?
War or Peace?
Who is the father of Joseph?
Who was at the Empty Tomb?
Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
Which first--beasts or man?
The number of beasts in the ark
How many stalls and horsemen?
Is it folly to be wise or not?
Human vs. ghostly impregnation
The sins of the father
The bat is not a bird
Rabbits do not chew their could
Insects do NOT have four feet
Snails do not melt
Fowl from waters or ground
Odd genetic engineering
The shape of the earth
Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt
Earth supported?
Heaven supported too
The hydrological cycle
Order of creation
Moses' personality
Righteous live?
Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
Jesus' last words
Years of famine
Moved David to anger?
The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?
God be seen?
CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD
Tempts?
Judas died how?
Ascend to heaven
What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?
How many time did the cock crow?
Who killed Saul
How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount
Does every man sin?
Who bought potter's field?
Who prophesied the potter's field?
Who bears guilt?
Do you answer a fool?
How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
Marriage?
Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?
How many apostles were in office between the resurection and ascention?
Judging
Good deeds
For or against?
Whom did they see at the tomb?
God change?
Destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)
Who's sepulchers?
Strong drink?
When second coming?
Solomon's overseers
The mother of Abijah
When did Baasha die?
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
Who was Josiah's successor?
The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah
What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?
What did they give him to drink?
How long was Jesus in the tomb?
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Contradictions
The Bible is riddled with repetitions and contradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors. The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark--is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones? The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem--a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus Christ' father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan.
Of the various methods I've seen to "explain" these:
1. "That is to be taken metaphorically" In other words, what is written is not what is meant. I find this entertaining, especially for those who decide what ISN'T to be taken as other than the absolute WORD OF GOD--which just happens to agree with the particular thing they happen to want...
2. "There was more there than...." This is used when one verse says "there was a" and another says "there was b," so they decide there was "a" AND "b"--which is said nowhere. This makes them happy, since it doesn't say there WASN'T "a+b." But it doesn't say there was "a+b+litle green martians." This is often the same crowd that insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation (i.e. only "a") and the only way. I find it entertaining they they don't mind adding to verses.
3. "It has to be understood in context" I find this amusing because it comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the verses in the contradictory set is suppose to be taken as THE TRUTH when if you add more to it it suddenly becomes "out of context." How many of you have goten JUST John 3:16 (taken out of all context) thrown up at you?
4. "there was just a copying/writing error" This is sometimes called a "transcription error," as in where one number was meant and an incorrect one was copied down. Or that what was "quoted" wasn't really what was said, but just what the author thought was said when he thought it was said. And that's right--I'm not disagreeing with events, I'm disagreeing with what is WRITTEN. Which is apparently agreed that it is incorrect. This is an amusing misdirection to the problem that the bible itself is wrong.
5. "That is a miracle." Naturally. That is why it is stated as fact.
6. "God works in mysterious ways" A useful dodge when the speaker doesn't understand the conflict between what the bible SAYS and what they WISH it said.
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REFERENCES:
The King James version of the Bible. Quotes provided.
Self-contradictions of the Bible.
William Henry Burr
ISBN 0-87975-416-8
Poole, Matthew, 1624-1679.
Annotations upon the Holy Bible. Vol. II : wherein the sacred text is inserted, and various readings annex'd, together with the parallel scriptures : the more difficult terms in each verse are explained,. The third edition, with the addition of a new concordance and tables, by Mr. Sam. Clark; the whole corrected and amended by the said Mr. Sam. Clark and Mr. Edward Veale.. London : Printed for Thomas Parkhurst [and 6 others], MDCXCVI [1696].
Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1041:1.
UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform
"the x-rated bible" by ben edward akerley, published by american atheist press, austin Texas, 1985.
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A good source of _literal_ Biblical self-contradictions is (surprise) "Self-Contradictions of the Bible," written by William Henry Burr in 1859 as a response to fundamentalism. It is currently published by Prometheus Books, 700 East Amherst St. Buffalo, NY 14215. P.B. also publishes a large number of books on religious inquiry and biblical critiques, the majority of which have a humanistic/atheistic slant. As far as "Self-Contradictions ..." goes, it contains about 140 textual inconsistencies, classified under "Theological Doctrines," "Moral Precepts," "Historical Facts," and "Speculative Doctrines."
"The Bible Handbook" is a compilation of several previous works by several authors, including W P Ball, G W Foote, and John Bowden. Also, the writing by Mr Foote is dated 1900, so we see that this is not a new endeavor. _The Bible Handbook_ by W.P. Ball, et al. available for nine dollars from the American Atheist Press, P.O. Box 2117, Austin TX 78768-2117. It's a collection of biblical contradictions, absurdities, atrocities, immoralities, indecencies, obscenities, unfulfilled prophecies and broken promises. This 372-page volume will give the atheist tons of scriptural ammunition for shooting down the flimsy arguments of the reality impaired.
Wow, looks like we got us a professional Googler here. Let me help out here, no need to Google just go right to the source. And I'll see your infidels and raise you a Tektonics. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by speedball1
Hey Speechless,
The source you provided is the same one I used in my last post. Are you offering to debate the statement, "NO ONE has been able to find faults or places where the Bible contradicts itself!!!" made in a post by kicky kate?
If you do I'll open another thread. Ordinarily I don't get into religious debates
Since I left the abortion debate sites but when I run across a statement that's so blatantly off the wall as the above I just got to step up and say something. Regards, Tom
No kidding? Ok, pardon my sarcasm but that's the standard source for most of this contradiction stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedball1
Nah, been there, done that and it ends up getting rather pointless and nobody ever persuades anyone of much of anything. And besides, there are a lot of gung-ho Christians out there that just aren't very prepared to get into the meaty stuff so cut 'em some slack when they say something that seems off the wall. Of course there are 'difficulties' in the bible but most can be explained satisfactorily and the rest really don't matter a heckuva lot. But if you want to take one here and there and throw it out on the board for discussion then by all means do so. It'll be fun I'm sure. :DQuote:
Are you offering to debate the statement, "NO ONE has been able to find faults or places where the Bible contradicts itself!!!" made in a post by kicky kate?
If you do I'll open another thread. Ordinarily I don't get into religious debates
Since I left the abortion debate sites but when I run across a statement that's so blatantly off the wall as the above I just got to step up and say something. Regards, Tom
Speechless,
I note your signature "I miss my dog ". Three years ago I lost my friend and companion, a small Malteese named Toby. I not only miss him but still mourn him. About 2 years ago I read in the paper about a little Shih Tzu that was about to be put down because Animal Control termed him unadopable, a bitter and a runner that had turned back in by three families. To make a long story short I petitioned to adopt him. He was everything they claimed he was but I've always maintained that there are no bad dogs, just bad owners.
After Bandit,( that's his name) became accustomed to being around me 24/7 he morphed from a biter and runner into a kisser and a cuddler. While I still miss Toby, Bandit has wormed his way into my heart. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I know what you're going through and how you must feel. Adopting a dog that needs you as much as you need him may be the answer.
Remember, " Adopting one dog won't change the world , but it will change the world for that one dog. Regards and good luck, Tom
Thanks for the sentiments, Tom. Yeah, Blue was my buddy and shadow for over 10 years and I really do miss him terribly. We do however still have 2 beautiful girls to love on and 9-year old Skyler, bless her, has taken to shadowing me everywhere I go now. Molly, who is 6, also mourns for her friend Blue. I don't care what anyone says, dogs do mourn. Anyway, I'll be featuring all of them as time goes so they don't feel left out :)Quote:
Originally Posted by speedball1
This is Molly last summer...
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