Exactly. It is unexplorable when listening with your Eyes.Quote:
How does one explain that God is in a book, in pages?
One cannot.
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Exactly. It is unexplorable when listening with your Eyes.Quote:
How does one explain that God is in a book, in pages?
One cannot.
Woowwwww! That's really deep! It makes not one ounce of sense, however. Not one ounce. It's a completely ridiculous statement.Quote:
Exactly. It is unexplorable when listening with your Eyes.
I think he means, "It is unexplorable when listening with your Eyes [reading], not with your Ears [hearing]."Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Does that make sense to you?
I'll explain it then; You are looking at the surface. In scripture we have "not one jot or tittle..." we have the lambs Book of Life.Quote:
It is unexplorable when listening with your Eyes.
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Read about the Book that nobody in heaven or on earth can open...everything written in that book will come to pass.
I enCOURAGE you to open the one book that was written specifically for us. It is alive.
Rom. 10:17, So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Christ sends out His representatives to preach the Gospel. Those who hear it have the opportunity to believe. Those who believe call on Christ. And all who call on the name of Christ will be saved.
Hearing the Word (enthsiastically) preached is much a more effective way to receive faith than (with no understanding) reading the Word alone at one's kitchen table.
Every word of God brings life. God spoke it, we wrote it, and it will all come to pass. It is alive...it is his living world.
Only he can bring it to life. And he already has, through Jesus. We wrote it Jesus spoke it.
Your "jot or tittle" reference is far removed from the meaning given it in scripture. The meaning in Scripture is that we dare not ignore even the smallest teaching in the Bible.Quote:
I'll explain it then; You are looking at the surface. In scripture we have "not one jot or tittle..." we have the lambs Book of Life.
I have no doubt that I have read the Bible ten or twenty times more than you. It's why I can refer to it routinely and you cannot.Quote:
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Read about the Book that nobody in heaven or on earth can open...everything written in that book will come to pass.
I enCOURAGE you to open the one book that was written specifically for us. It is alive.
There is no book that nobody in heaven or on earth can open. Read your Bible more carefully.
None of which has anything to do with Walter's incoherent comment.Quote:
Rom. 10:17, So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
Christ sends out His representatives to preach the Gospel. Those who hear it have the opportunity to believe. Those who believe call on Christ. And all who call on the name of Christ will be saved.
But my explanation* does help this revision** of what he said:Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
*Hearing the Word (enthusiastically) preached is much a more effective way to receive faith than (with no understanding) reading the Word alone at one's kitchen table.
**"It is unexplorable when listening with your Eyes [reading], not with your Ears [hearing]."
2 Corinthians 4:4 “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”Quote:
It's why I can refer to it routinely and you cannot.
Is it right out of the Bible? Maybe that is your problem? You won't recognize it unless it's associated with a numbered verse and chapter.Okay, so you can read. Can you live it or let it live in you? No - you can't. Because you don't understand it as being the living Word (Jesus)? that offers its life to you.Quote:
I have no doubt that I have read the Bible ten or twenty times more than you.
I don't agree with that. I have always received far more from my own devotionals than from preaching, but I realize that is not true for everyone. I don't really care if the preaching is "enthsiastical" or not so much as it is based on the Word and Spirit led.Quote:
*Hearing the Word (enthsiastically) preached is much a more effective way to receive faith than (with no understanding) reading the Word alone at one's kitchen table.
I really like to see the way God repeats various truth in different places in the Bible. It gives me great confidence in those truths.
I do like to see people make reference to the Bible rather than their own ideas. Do you?Quote:
Is it right out of the Bible? Maybe that is your problem? You won't recognize it unless it's associated with a numbered verse and chapter.
Mr. judgmental strikes again. It's sad how you get so angry when someone just doesn't automatically accept your ideas.Quote:
Okay, so you can read. Can you live it or let it live in you? No - you can't. Because you don't understand it as the living Word (Jesus)?the life
Sure, it might help me do my research. Here, when quoting a Bible verse, It is only so people can dissect it and pick it apart.Quote:
I do like to see people make reference to the Bible rather than their own ideas. Do you?
Take Satan for example: He quoted a Bible verse. Now we know everything Satan says is a lie. So was that Bible verse that he quoted a lie...of course not. It was the spirit in which he spoke it...he was using it for death (so to speak). There are those Christians that would believe it to be true. Not fearing (when being offered - jumping to their death, as opposed to recanting their faith in Jesus/living word.Let the Word live to me O-Lord. You simply don't understand the Bible. Every word written and or spoken regarding the Bible is alive.Quote:
Mr. judgmental strikes again.
You think it might??Quote:
Sure, it might help me do my research
You mean the one that you don't know, and that you think "might help" you?Quote:
You simply don't understand the Bible.
You really need to stop all the bluster and start thinking about what you are saying. To say that, "Every word written or spoken regarding the Bible is alive," is just absurd. To believe that would make everything Joseph Smith taught about the Bible to be "alive", or everything the JW's have written about the Bible is "alive". Surely you don't really believe that. Is everything everyone here has written "regarding" the Bible to be considered "alive"? Really??? I really can't believe you truly believe something that bizarre.
Yes, Yes, Now you're getting it...Do you think he might have given birth to sin? Sin is alive as well.Quote:
To believe that would make everything Joseph Smith taught about the Bible to be "alive",
We are Sin. We give birth to sin once we (think) open our mouths. Nothing we speak is going to survive. There is no life/ truth in what we speak or think.
When God Speaks, It brings true life. It gives life to all who will live with his word for all eternity. When God speaks of a coming Messiah, his very word Brought a messiah into being.
God speaks and his Word is true and alive. It brings life into existence. And to go one step further, God defeated Sin with sin.
Has much to do with Sinful Men bringing God's word into their lives. That's why the entire OT is full of Jesus. The very fact that man spoke (God's word) brought it about in their lives...And they rarely, if ever, knew what they were saying...Proving God's word is alive. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. God's Word is Life. God's Word brings everything into being...there is only God's word,,, that is all. There is nothing else.
Which is better, to believe God's word (scripture) is a living Word (something so bizarre)? Or to believe whatever your mind is able to rationalize?
“It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Thus sayeth Walter.
Come on, Walter. That's foolishness. If you really believe that, then you will never speak or think another word.Quote:
There is no truth in what we speak or think.
We need to believe God's word and we need to be able to apply good thinking.Quote:
Which is better, to believe God's word (scripture) is a living Word (something so bizarre)? Or to believe whatever your mind is able to rationalize?
Titus 1. 7 For the [a]overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
Is. 1:18. “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord, “Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.
My "bizarre" comment was about this absurd idea of yours. "Every word written or spoken regarding the Bible is alive," It is just ridiculous. And then to justify it you try to assert that you meant sin is alive. Good grief.
Sometimes I think your biggest problem is in trying to put your thoughts into words. I can't believe you really consider much of what you write is true. I'd love to see you become more careful and thoughtful in expressing your thoughts.
as if that has never happened?Quote:
If you really believe that, then you will never speak or think another word.
Yeah, that's why God isn't going to do away with all this. Don't you know all of this is going to die, be wiped away? In the end, there is no you, there is no word other than the living Word (Jesus) of God. There is only Jesus. We are in Jesus. Jesus is it.Quote:
There is no truth in what we speak or think.
If you know of Satan and him being the Worship leader at one time, there was a Job opening. Jesus is the worship leader now. When Time is done, we (in Jesus) will Worship God for all eternity. We will give (sing) praise to God...that is all...I'm good with that.
But since you are speaking (writing) those words, should I consider them to contain "no truth"? After all, "There is no truth in what we speak." And that being the case, would it not basically amount to lying?
Jesus is the object of worship. But I certainly would agree that giving praise to God will be a glorious undertaking.
Oh come on, would you please STOP! You know what was meant. We can Speak on our own (as you can see what's going on in the world today... man's word in action) or we can speak the Words of truth, that comes from God. You being a preacher should know exactly what it is I'm getting at. Do you not worry when giving a sermon that you might speak using your own words? Don't worry about what you're going to say...I will give you the words I want you to say.Quote:
But since you are speaking (writing) those words, should I consider them to contain "no truth"? After all, "There is no truth in what we speak."
As I have said, I am very careful with my words. That you are not is on you. Again, I would encourage you to begin to be more careful.
I completely agree with that well expressed belief.Quote:
We can Speak on our own (as you can see what's going on in the world today... man's word in action) or we can speak the Words of truth, that comes from God.
I'm not so sure of that...your responses tell otherwise. For Example: when I said; "There is no truth in what we speak or think."Quote:
As I have said, I am very careful with my words.
Your response; "Come on, Walter. That's foolishness."
I stated something that you didn't understand. You didn't understand because you might have been thinking Carnally (not Bible-based). Only until I mentioned: "We can Speak on our own (as you can see what's going on in the world today... man's word in action) or we can speak the Words of truth, that come from God."... Did you understand. It doesn't make my first statement false. Yet you jumped to an early conclusion, without making reference to God's Word/Bible. There is a living Spirit in the Word/Bible. Its meaning is more than simply quoting scripture.
Which Bible are we talking about? -- the KJV, the NKJV, the RSV, the NRSV, the NIV, and on and on.
Yeah. I said that because your statement was completely ridiculous. My words were chosen carefully and very accurately.Quote:
I'm not so sure of that...your responses tell otherwise. For Example: when I said; "There is no truth in what we speak or think." Your response; "Come on, Walter. That's foolishness."
It just has to be someone else's fault, doesn't it? It couldn't possibly be due to thoughtless, careless wording, could it?Quote:
I stated something that you didn't understand. You didn't understand because you might have been thinking Carnally (not Bible-based).
I didn't say your first statement was false. I simply pointed out that it was stupid. Sorry, but that's just how it is. And your response above amounts to, "Well golly, why can't you just read my mind and understand my poorly, foolishly worded statement? Oh, you must be carnal! You must not know anything!!" And on and on it goes.Quote:
It doesn't make my first statement false.
Honestly, it would be helpful if you would take on some responsibility for your own actions. Here, when you make a poor comment, it gets pointed out. If you can't handle that, then let me know and I can block your posts. I'd rather not, because you do have some interesting insights, but I do get weary of being accused of nonsense because you don't know how to write accurately.
Does it make a difference?Quote:
Which Bible are we talking about? -- the KJV, the NKJV, the RSV, the NRSV, the NIV, and on and on.
On one hand, you say: "I completely agree with that well-expressed belief." And on the other hand, you say it is complete foolishness...When both statements were saying the same thing.
Put it in the context in which it was said - I was referring to the Word of God being a living word and the Word of Man being a living sin. Reality comes from knowing, living, and loving God's word, God's Law, may it live in you...Being a law unto yourself.
It's like here we are, Darkness before the light shines. GOD said -Let there be light! - and here is us, saying - what, what are you talking about, there is no light - And to this day there is no light. - God's word ("let there be light") is not a reality, it doesn't exist. Christians on the other hand - God has just now (at this very moment in time) spoke - Let there be light! - WOW!!! They can see the light, they know the light to be reality. God's word comes alive just now, not some six thousand years ago. God's word lives for all eternity, not just in time. Only in eternity, we won't have to read the spoken word, it will come straight out of our mouths. Remember the Israelites at Mount Sinai, when They became afraid when they heard the voice of the LORD from the midst of the darkness. Why did they choose Moses to speak to them directly, instead of God? Moses died, but his words live on through the Scriptures that he had written down. Sometimes the Israelites Lived life according to the scriptures...thereby bringing life into existence, God's word into reality.
Just like when I said "How does one explain the Bible being the Word of God - you said - you can't - And you are completely right. We can not explain to darkness that God's word gives life. Only God can do that. And he does it by those of us who live the life...the life of the word. Your words are not your own...belonging to sin or God.
And as far as your little comment ("is the door alive" -Yes, knock and it will be open...the door is real) about how can words, written on a page be alive. Maybe you might want to look at the AI dilemma. autonomous artificial intelligence...coding (Laws) written on a page. We have created that which we have become. Right now they are debating on whether we should be able to unplug our creation (simply words on a page), the AI, or what rights they should have, if any. Crazy isn't it? crazy but true.
Once again your carelessness betrays you. When I said, "I completely agree with that well-expressed belief," I was referring to this well-framed statement. "We can Speak on our own (as you can see what's going on in the world today... man's word in action) or we can speak the Words of truth, that comes from God." When I said it is complete foolishness, I was referring to your original poorly worded statement. "There is no truth in what we speak." It seems you are attempting to be intentionally deceitful.
Maybe, but that is certainly NOT what you said. And even this doesn't make sense. The Word of Man is a living sin??? What??Quote:
I was referring to the Word of God being a living word and the Word of Man being a living sin.
Except that I never said that. Carelessness, Walter, carelessness is your great enemy. This is what I said. "So Jesus is also a door?"Quote:
And as far as your little comment ("is the door alive"
Where was this said? I don't think this comment is true either. What you ACTUALLY said was, "How does one explain that God is in a book, in pages?" to which I replied, "One cannot" .So four strikes and you are REALLY out.Quote:
Just like when I said "How does one explain the Bible being the Word of God - you said - you can't.
This, I think, is pretty good other than the last part about the word coming out of our mouths in heaven. Where do you ge that from in the Bible?Quote:
Christians on the other hand - God has just now (at this very moment in time) spoke - Let there be light! - WOW!!! They can see the light, they know the light to be reality. God's word comes alive just now, not some six thousand years ago. God's word lives for all eternity, not just in time. Only in eternity, we won't have to read the spoken word, it will come straight out of our mouths.
(whichever translation Holds the top spot. Check your Amazon list to see which Bible translation holds the top spot. You might even see that the devotional far outshone the Bibles on the list.)Quote:
Which Bible are we talking about? -- the KJV, the NKJV, the RSV, the NRSV, the NIV, and on and on.
It apparently does to her. She brings this up every time the Bible is mentioned as being a life-giving source. She will never understand until she is able to give way and believe. That's why it's a living Faith.Quote:
Does it make a difference?
Your devotional is not a Bible. Peter captured the preciousness of divine speech in his pleading question to Jesus: “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life”Quote:
(I don't agree with that -post 131)
have always received far more from my own devotionals than from preaching
(John 6:68). human words fade. But the Word of the Lord—ever profitable for both comfort and correction—endures forever.We are in the mind of God. We give voice to his breath. Now it may only be in Praise and worship (in eternity). It would be like singing the same song over and over and over again for all eternity. But for us, every time we sing it it will be like singing it for the first time. God Gave man the breath (Jesus) of life. Through that Breath, translated into Words, spoken by men was the bringing of Jesus to life. It is done much in the same way today. If there was no mention or promise. (having God's life-giving breath...the Word/Scripture) then we would be hopelessly on our own and without a great redeemer, Messiah.Quote:
word coming out of our mouths. Where do you get that from in the Bible?
Satan said; Did God really say that. Eve had no clue as to whether God said it or not. Man (Adam) said it. Adam even added to God's spoken word. Eve, realizing that she didn't die after touching the fruit...
Adam added to God's word (he told her not to even touch it...God never said that) yet Adam Spoke well...Jesus telling us the same thing (do not think or touch, run flee, etc.) when dealing with Sin. Touching the fruit might have led to her eating the fruit. So why did Adam Eat the Fruit? Because he loved Eve. Jesus says; Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.
When I said the word coming out of our mouth. Thinking Of the time Elisha turned around and looked at them, and he cursed (spoke into the air) them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of them. Or: Elijah answered the captain, “If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men...might have been more man than God?
Which Bible version do you use, waltero?
My devotional involves reading the Bible. I do love the text you quoted. It concludes with, "and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”Quote:
Your devotional is not a Bible. Peter captured the preciousness of divine speech in his pleading question to Jesus: “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life”
WG, you didn't ask me, but I'll answer. I read/preach from the NASB, but over the past few months I have come to really like the CSB. I use the JB Philips paraphrase as a sort of a commentary, and I also like the New English Translation.
I had to look up the word "Use." I in no way use the Scripture. I might have at one time, But I see it in a different light now.Quote:
Which Bible version do you use, waltero?
If you ask me which Bible I read from. I don't know. I can't remember. I have several Bible translations in my house. There is one that I particularly like at present. But I will pick whichever one is available, depending on the room I am in. Who knows, a day might come when I like reading in the Garage more than I do the Bedroom. It's Like going to different Churches, each one might give me insight. It's like each Culture, and each language bringing the Bible to life in a different way, that I never understood before. Having the same meaning but bringing life in so many different ways...opening up God's word unto life.
God Can not be tempted...Backed up By biblical proof. James 1:13 "God Can not be tempted..."Quote:
Why was Jesus Tempted
It's really as simple as that. Believe it or not.
- Hebrews 2:18
For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.- Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
Thank you for posting JL. Those two verses almost threw me for a loop. How many Verses will support a Christian belief that Jesus had a choice, that Jesus could have sinned? There isn't one, not one verse in the entirety of the Holy Scriptures. It's only man's Idea of what Temptation is (the devil made me do it)that does us in. That is why when we come across a plain and simple verse, such as - "God can not be tempted." We simply run with it (no opinion required, even if you don't have one), instead of trying to explain it away with the use of other verses. We shouldn't (not saying you did. You explained that you have no opinion) "use" the bible in that fashion.
I found this (in the hope that it might better articulate what it is I'm getting at)This might explain away any Idea that Jesus was undergoing a test of some kind. Or as if Jesus could have succumbed or even contemplated sin. There is no choice to Choose from... is that there is no superior force for him to have succumbed to...He is the source of the only force in existence.Quote:
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted
By Satan, at his entrance on his public ministry, and a little before his death; which was done, not by stirring up sin in him, for he had none, nor by putting any into him, which could not be done, nor could Satan get any advantage over him; he solicited him one thing and another, but in vain; though these temptations were very troublesome, and disagreeable, and abhorrent to the pure and holy nature of Christ, and so must be reckoned among his sufferings, or things by which he suffered: and as afflictions are sometimes called temptations, in this sense also Christ suffered, being tempted, with outward poverty and meanness, with slight and neglect from his own relations, and with a general contempt and reproach among men: he was often tempted by the Jews with ensnaring questions; he was deserted by his followers, by his own disciples, yea, by his God and Father; all which were great trials to him, and must be accounted as sufferings: and he also endured great pains of body, and anguish of mind, and at last death itself.
For God cannot be tempted with evil;
or "evils", He was tempted by the Israelites at Massah and Meribah, from which those places had their names, who by their murmuring, distrust, and unbelief, proved and tried his patience and his power; and so he may be, and has been tempted by others in a like way; he may be tempted by evil men, and with evil things, but he cannot be tempted "to evil", as the Ethiopic version renders it; he is proof against all such temptations: he cannot be tempted by anything in himself, who is pure and holy, or by any creature or thing without him, to do any sinful action.
Yes, He could hsve been while He lived on Earth. That's why God created Him as 100% God AND 100% man. Had Jesus been tempted and sinned, then God would know Jesus was the wrong One to be the substitute for mankind. God would have had to rethink this and maybe create another God-man or come up with a different idea to rescue mankind from sin.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Trying to find the point of agreement between the James passage and the Hebrews passages is the challenge. They do agree. The question is in what way.
The utter impossibility of such an event leads me to conclude that Jesus was not capable of sinning. There was no plan B. I just don't think that there was ever any possibility of Jesus, the divine Son of God and every bit as much God as the Father, actually committing a sin. Tempted? Yes, but no possibility of him yielding to that temptation.Quote:
Had Jesus been tempted and sinned, then God would know Jesus was the wrong One to be the substitute for mankind. God would have had to rethink this and maybe create another God-man or come up with a different idea to rescue mankind from sin..
We always should remember that Jesus is the one who was "slain from the foundation of the world". In other words, it was really all settled even before His birth. God never had any intention of allowing His plan of redemption to be left teetering on the edge of a "maybe".
This is truly unbelievable. JL, HELP!Quote:
Yes, He could hsve been while He lived on Earth. That's why God created Him as 100% God AND 100% man. Had Jesus been tempted and sinned Jesus was the wrong One to be the substitute for mankind. God would have had to rethink this and create another God-man.
After all that, this is what you get out of it?
I will leave you with that.
Then why was Jesus tempted -- and why did God allow that?
Here's an interesting article:
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/artic...us-have-sinned
In that article, the author (who wrote a book with the same title as this thread) wrote (and I agree):
"I may be wrong, but I think it is wrong to believe that Christ's divine nature made it impossible for his human nature to sin. If that were the case, the temptation, the tests, and his assuming of the responsibility of the first Adam would have all been charades. This position protects the integrity of the authenticity of the human nature because it was the human nature that carried out the mission of the second Adam on our behalf. It was the human nature uniquely anointed beyond measure by the Holy Spirit."
My congrats. This is a well written (though brief) article by a well-respected theologian. I once listened to a 30 part series on philosophy by Dr. Sproul that was great. Sad that he died a year or two ago. At any rate, you came up with a winner.
I especially like his "I may be wrong" approach. I assure you he is usually more adamant than that. From a practical perspective I would agree with him, but from the perspective of God's will and God's eternal plan, I would not agree. If Jesus was the lamb "slain from the foundation of the world", then he was the perfect lamb as well.
I'd still like to know why you think this is so pertinent that you have raised the issue twice now. "Which Bible are we talking about? -- the KJV, the NKJV, the RSV, the NRSV, the NIV, and on and on."
I've raised it twice???
He was the perfect lamb because he decided not to give in to temptation.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
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