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  • Apr 29, 2021, 10:44 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    They are the essence of Christian living and love.
    No, they are not. Christian living is obedient living.

    Quote:

    Millions of parents who had trans children because of DES being given to the pregnant mom are eagerly awaiting your answer. Please research DES.
    Says you. I am still waiting for an answer to those famous "broken chromosomes."

    Quote:

    "Found nowhere in the Bible" because that kind of sex was prostitution set up to bring in money to pagan temples.
    It is found nowhere in the Bible.

    Quote:

    Tell them YOUR truth, you mean....
    You still don't know what truth is.

    Quote:

    Interesting how selective your memory is. Except when it suits you to remember.
    You have nothing. If you did, you would have already presented it. Just more fantasy.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 10:49 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    No, they are not. Christian living is obedient living.

    You have absolutely NO idea about their (or anyone's) "obedience" -- unless you go around with your binocs, peeking into bedroom windows.
    Quote:

    I am still waiting for an answer to those famous "broken chromosomes."
    "Diethylstilbestrol (DES), a synthetic estrogen, inhibits mitosis in mammalian cells and causes chromosome lagging or malorientation during recovery. Electron microscopy indicates that DES causes disruption of the mitotic spindle, centriole elongation, and unusual chromosome associations due to interkinetochore microtubules."
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3913...20microtubules.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 10:52 AM
    jlisenbe
    I'm going off of what you said. "She is legally married to a woman." That is plainly being disobedient to the Bible's definition of marriage. To be plainly disobedient to God is far removed from loving God. If I am cheating on my wife, I can't plead, "But I was baptized as an infant and attended a Lutheran grade school. Besides, I give money to charity and help other people." Yes, but it is rebellion against God.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 10:52 AM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You have nothing. If you did, you would have already presented it. Just more fantasy.

    Oh I have something, Jl, and you know it. I'm waiting for you to acknowledge what you already know. In the meantime, you can sweat a little.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 10:58 AM
    jlisenbe
    Sure you are. Just like any day now you are going to explain why you cut off the quote from Jesus in order to be deceitful. I'll post it AGAIN. You see, that's how it works. If someone seems to be deceitful, then you post it so they have a chance to clear up what might have been a simple misunderstanding. I have given you that chance multiple times. I don't play the "I'm waiting for the right time" game.

    Quote:

    It's very simple. In the first quote, Jesus is speaking in the present tense of his time on earth. He did not come then for judgement but rather for salvation. The second speaks of the coming day of judgement when He will judge.

    In a gross truncation of a quote which reminds me of your Aquinas debacle, you intentionally misrepresented what He said. The entire quote very nicely answers your question. It is startling that you did not, I suppose, bother to read it for yourself.

    "47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. (present tense JL)

    48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. (future tense JL)"
  • Apr 29, 2021, 11:08 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    To be plainly disobedient to God is far removed from loving God.

    Do you eat beef fat along with the meat? Bible says no. Do you eat shrimp? Bible says no. Do you eat pork? Bible says no. Do you drink a shake when eating a cheeseburger? No mixing of milk and meat! Have you ever masturbated? (another no-no)

    Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 11:24 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
    No one is casting a stone, but you are doing those ladies no favors by telling them their lifestyle is fine with God. Give your opinion if you want to, but at least be honest enough to admit that it does not agree with the teaching of the Bible.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 11:36 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    No one is casting a stone, but you are doing those ladies no favors by telling them their lifestyle is fine with God. Give your opinion if you want to, but at least be honest enough to admit that it does not agree with the teaching of the Bible.

    I don't tell them their lifestyle is fine. The NT does.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 11:38 AM
    jlisenbe
    It does? The NT says two women living together in marriage is fine? Where?
  • Apr 29, 2021, 11:51 AM
    waltero
    Quote:

    Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
    You can accept the sin in "their life" (putting up with it). Promoting such behavior, why?
    Commit yourself to Christ Jesus.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 11:56 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    It does? The NT says two women living together in marriage is fine? Where?

    The Bible doesn't ban homosexuality. If you know anything about history and cultures, homosexuality was part of society's fabric during Jesus' time on earth. The word "homosexual" didn't wiggle into the Bible until 1946.

    Jesus was a Hebrew rabbi -- and, atypically, unmarried. John was the disciple whom Jesus loved. Only one disciple had the courage to go with Jesus to his execution. That man clearly had a unique place in Jesus' heart. In all classic depictions of the Last Supper, John sits next to Jesus, very often his head resting on Jesus's breast. When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom He loved standing at the foot of the cross on which He was dying, He said to his mother, 'Woman behold your son!' Then He said to John, 'Behold your mother!' And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home."

    Growing numbers of the LGBT+ community are or have become followers of Jesus – lay and even ordained. If Christian churches would more openly accept, embrace, and love them, even more in the LGBT+ community would become Christians.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 12:05 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Jesus was a Hebrew rabbi -- and, atypically, unmarried. John was the disciple whom Jesus loved. Only one disciple had the courage to go with Jesus to his execution. That man clearly had a unique place in Jesus' heart. In all classic depictions of the Last Supper, John sits next to Jesus, very often his head resting on Jesus's breast. When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing at the foot of the cross on which He was dying, He said to his mother, 'Woman behold your son!' Then He said to John, 'Behold your mother!' And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home."
    Jesus was not a formal rabbi, which is to say trained in a rabbinical school. He never married because He knew where His life was heading. It's really sickening that you can read what you did and come up with the conclusion that Jesus had a homosexual lover. That is stated NOWHERE in scripture and would have certainly been presented as a slam-dunk in the charges against Him during His trial. The uniform testimony of the Bible is that homosexual behavior is sinful. It is nowhere described as acceptable to God.

    Your idea is strictly the conjecture of a person desperate to come up with some small shred of support for her own ideas.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 12:09 PM
    waltero
    Quote:

    If Christian churches would more openly accept,
    A person doesn't join a Church, you are born into it.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 12:11 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    "Diethylstilbestrol (DES), a synthetic estrogen, inhibits mitosis in mammalian cells and causes chromosome lagging or malorientation during recovery. Electron microscopy indicates that DES causes disruption of the mitotic spindle, centriole elongation, and unusual chromosome associations due to interkinetochore microtubules."
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3913...20microtubules.
    You do realize that nowhere in the relatively short article you referenced does it say that DES causes transgenderism or even, for that matter, mentions TG or "broken chromosomes"? In other words, it provides your idea with no support at all.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 12:28 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You do realize that nowhere in the relatively short article you referenced does it say that DES causes transgenderism or even, for that matter, mentions TG or "broken chromosomes"? In other words, it provides your idea with no support at all.

    Not even "disruption of the mitotic spindle, centriole elongation, and unusual chromosome associations due to interkinetochore microtubules"?

    This was supposed to get your scientific mind interested enough in DES and what it is so you will investigate on your own. Guess I'll have to spoon-feed you.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 12:34 PM
    Wondergirl
    Here ya go, JL.

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/religi...s-transgender/

    https://transfemscience.org/articles...rans-etiology/
  • Apr 29, 2021, 12:48 PM
    waltero
    Quote:

    Here ya go, WG.
    https://www.bing.com/search?q=who+is...ANNTA1&PC=U531

    https://www.debate.org/opinions/is-it-wrong-to-be-lgbt

    You should not have a relationship with the World. “Do not love the world or the things in the world.” Love for the World Pushes Out Love for the Father
  • Apr 29, 2021, 12:55 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Not even "disruption of the mitotic spindle, centriole elongation, and unusual chromosome associations due to interkinetochore microtubules"?
    Nope.

    Quote:

    This was supposed to get your scientific mind interested enough in DES and what it is so you will investigate on your own. Guess I'll have to spoon-feed you.
    I have some bad news for you. I was a science major and a science teacher. You are not able to spoon feed anyone.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 12:55 PM
    Wondergirl
    Broken chromosomes:
    If a karyotype* shows a usual number and structure of chromosome set, it is known as a normal karyotype. Abnormal karyotype shows an unusual number or structurally malformed chromosomes in the karyotype.

    *A karyotype is an individual's collection of chromosomes. (Karyotyping is the process by which photographs of chromosomes are taken in order to determine the chromosome complement of an individual.)
  • Apr 29, 2021, 12:58 PM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    If someone seems to be deceitful, then you post it so they have a chance to clear up what might have been a simple misunderstanding.

    Do you practice what you preach, Jl? I think not.

    When will you post what shows your fraudulent nature?
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:03 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    Love for the World Pushes Out Love for the Father

    The Father's Son said love God and each other.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:04 PM
    jlisenbe
    From your own article. "The precise cause of gender transition is unknown." So much for your "broken chromosomes". The rest of the article puts out an unsupported idea that DES "might" be responsible for TG.

    Is that really all you have? Really? Your second link is to a long-winded, largely meaningless "debate" that I'd bet you have not bothered to read yourself. Thankfully, it did allow me to vote "yes" that LGBT is morally wrong. Thanks for giving me that opportunity. Sadly, it provided nothing for your weird idea.

    "Broken chromosomes" is still an unsupported idea fit only for non-science people like WG.

    "Love not the world nor the things of the world."
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:05 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You are not able to spoon feed anyone.

    Open up, JL! Here comes the spoonful of facts and information about science you never studied or taught.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:07 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Do you practice what you preach, Jl? I think not.

    When will you post what shows your fraudulent nature?
    Actually, I do practice what I preach. Here is your deceitful post again, still waiting for an explanation. I am happy to give you that chance.

    It's very simple. In the first quote, Jesus is speaking in the present tense of his time on earth. He did not come then for judgement but rather for salvation. The second speaks of the coming day of judgement when He will judge.

    In a gross truncation of a quote which reminds me of your Aquinas debacle, you intentionally misrepresented what He said. The entire quote very nicely answers your question. It is startling that you did not, I suppose, bother to read it for yourself.

    "47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. (present tense JL)

    48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. (future tense JL)"
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:07 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    "Broken chromosomes" is still an unsupported idea fit only for non-science people like WG.

    Once a cherry picker always a cherry picker. I figured you wouldn't understand it or even try to.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:08 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Open up, JL! Here comes the spoonful of facts and information about science you never studied or taught.
    I'm afraid a spoonful is all you are capable of. Regardless, if you are going to post links, then post a quote from the links to show that it actually has content worth reading. Your first three were all losers.

    Did you ever discover what "truth" is?

    I would suggest you drop the "cherry picking" references. Honestly, it makes you appear to be completely stupid and desperate for something to say. You plainly don't even know what it means or how to illustrate it. I don't think you're stupid and it bothers me for you to present yourself in that manner.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:11 PM
    waltero
    I'm not sure what your getting at? We are all sinners. We are all rotten to the core!
    Does it make a difference if you're a woman in a man's body?
    Now, getting a sex change isn't what Jesus was talking about, when he talks about "Being Born again."
    Get out of 'Self" and be born-again. Love your "Friends", support them but don't try and promote wrong behavior???
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:21 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I'm afraid a spoonful is all you are capable of. Regardless, if you are going to post links, then post a quote from the links to show that it actually has content worth reading. Your first three were all losers.

    But why? You don't read quotes.
    Quote:

    I would suggest you drop the "cherry picking" references. Honestly, it makes you appear to be completely stupid and desperate for something to say. You plainly don't even know what it means or how to illustrate it. I don't think you're stupid and it bothers me for you to present yourself in that manner.
    It's exactly what you do: cherry pick. You post only the parts that prove your point, even if you have to omit important words and phrases -- as you do with things I say.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    Does it make a difference if you're a woman in a man's body?

    I wish you could be born again as the male you are (but only on the outside) and with every part of your soul, mind, brain screaming, "I'm female!"
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:23 PM
    waltero
    Quote:

    important words
    Word! Bird is the Word.

    Quote:

    I wish you could be born again as the male you are (but only on the outside) and with every part of your soul, mind, brain screaming "I'm female!"
    Yes, either way, We must learn to master it.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:24 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    Yes, We must learn to master it.

    You can't. Dysphoria becomes the norm.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:27 PM
    waltero
    Quote:

    You can't
    Sin becomes the norm. Become born again and you will experience the transformative power of the Holy spirit.
    A person is not required to do anything other than Believe in Jesus. God will do the rest.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:29 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    Sin becomes the norm. The Holy Spirit come in.

    It isn't sin. Is being left-handed a sin? Being born blind is a sin?
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:30 PM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Actually, I do practice what I preach.

    No, Jl, you do not. You have a long history here of evading and dissembling. Not to speak of downright refusing to answer simple questions because they do not accord with your misunderstanding of the Bible.

    Unable to compete with your own words, you usually hide behind the words of an ancient book claiming the words were spoken by Jesus although you have not a scintilla of proof they were spoken by him, rather than written down several centuries after Jesus lived.

    This is a fact. A fact which you fraudulently claim as "proof" of not believing the Bible. When will you man up and admit the truth of this? I admire Waltero who has been honest on the issue of hell. You should imitate him.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:39 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    But why? You don't read quotes.
    I read your last three articles. There was nothing there to support your idea.

    Quote:

    It's exactly what you do: cherry pick. You post only the parts that prove your point, even if you have to omit important words and phrases -- as you do with things I say.
    Quote:

    It's exactly what you do: cherry pick. You post only the parts that prove your point, even if you have to omit important words and phrases -- as you do with things I say.
    That's not what cherry picking is.

    Quote:

    No, Jl, you do not. You have a long history here of evading and dissembling. Not to speak of downright refusing to answer simple questions because they do not accord with your misunderstanding of the Bible.

    Unable to compete with your own words, you usually hide behind the words of an ancient book claiming the words were spoken by Jesus although you have not a scintilla of proof they were spoken by him, rather than written down several centuries after Jesus lived.

    This is a fact. A fact which you fraudulently claim as "proof" of not believing the Bible. When will you man up and admit the truth of this? I admire Waltero who has been honest on the issue of hell. You should imitate him.
    Blah, blah, blah. You're done Athos. You will not defend your own offense, and you cannot show mine. You're finished until you man up and do it.

    As to what I "hide behind", I give you the words of Christ. If that's not good enough for you, then I can help you.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:40 PM
    waltero
    Quote:

    You can't. Dysphoria becomes the norm.
    I understand. I'll but out. Your quick fix might not be the best option.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:42 PM
    jlisenbe
    Completely misrepresenting the message of the Bible is always a bad idea. Now she has Jesus with a homosexual lover. Unreal.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:45 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    I understand. I'll but out. Your quick fix might not be the best option.

    What's my quick fix? (P.S. there isn't one.)
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:46 PM
    waltero
    Quote:

    Now she has Jesus with a homosexual lover. Unreal.
    How does one respond to such a statement? Guess this is a good time for me to withdraw.
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:51 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Completely misrepresenting the message of the Bible is always a bad idea. Now she has Jesus with a homosexual lover. Unreal.

    Why didn't he marry at 15-16 like Jewish males did back then?
  • Apr 29, 2021, 01:53 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    How does one respond to such a statement?
    Good question.

    Quote:

    Guess this is a good time for me to withdraw.
    I think that's a mistake.

    Quote:

    Why didn't he marry at 15-16 like Jewish males did back then?
    Has already been answered above.

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