Here you go Athos, I'll post the Topic once more.
Quote:
What it means to believe God
What have we Witnessed?
By reading and reflecting the scripture, I can be a witness to Christ Jesus in my personal life- yes?
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Here you go Athos, I'll post the Topic once more.
Quote:
What it means to believe God
What have we Witnessed?
By reading and reflecting the scripture, I can be a witness to Christ Jesus in my personal life- yes?
Answered - Here's where -- post #s 42,44,49,52,58,56,59,64,67,70,72,74,76,79,118, and 120.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
If you can't get what you're lookin for in all those posts, there's no hope for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
WG replies: Simply reading and reflecting on the Scriptures isn't enough to be a witness. As we well know, our Old Adam is always very present to twist and mangle the words in the Bible. That's why I asked you to list your beliefs in 1, 2, 3 order snd state them in short, simple sentences.
Wow! That was really impressive. It has to be one of the best Darth Vader impressions I've ever seen. "Luke! Your post has disgraced you. It has become your death knell. Luke! Bewaarreee of the DEATH STAR."Quote:
It's your death knell here, Jl, and you have only yourself to blame.
On a serious note, when I post the words of Jesus, you can accept them, reject them, or whatever, but however you respond, your response is to Him and not to me. My post was entirely accurate.
Here are some others to ponder.
24 “Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.25 “Truly I tell you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for your benefit that I go away, because if I don’t go away the Counselor will not come to you. If I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world about sin, righteousness, and judgment: 9 About sin, because they do not believe in me;
Accept or refuse what?Quote:
We don't accept it on our own--we can accept it only with the Holy Spirit's help. We ourselves, on our own, can only refuse it.
I was responding to YOUR comment: "It's a glorious message to me, and it's a glorious message to anyone willing to accept it."Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Remember, we can accept it only with the Holy Spirit's help.
So you do agree that the message of the Gospel has to be accepted, and that some people reject it?
True, myself included. I get it, your saying- the Bible can't be trusted.Quote:
As we well know, our Old Adam is always very present to twist and mangle the words in the Bible.
Sake of argument: (spiritual life)
You say- God is the highest life- Man is the Center life- Bible is the lower life.
If the spiritual faculty, whose proper work it is to give light, be itself diseased—if it discerns not singly but doubly, and therefore dimly—then the whole life also is shrouded in gloom. If that is the case with the higher life (man), what will be the state of the lower(Bible)!
So we have
God- Bible- Man,
Mans life is the only life shrouded in darkness...If the light that is in man be darkness, the darkness how great will it be!”
You must believe that God is in charge, he has provided us with his Word, fully intact and true. Man Cannot Corrupt Gods Word!
Besides, there is absolutely no reason to believe the words of the Bible have been "mangled". The evidence points very strongly in the other direction.
I agree that the Holy Spirit works faith in us and some people reject it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
What happens to those who reject it?
Noooooo! You DON'T get it! You always get your thoughts and then your sentences all tangled up. Keep it simple! Freud would call it "flight of ideas".Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
We are always on the prowl (lookout) for them to show them our love and, through that love, witness to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Either you believe in the Bible or you don't. Why would anybody pretend to believe in something that was created by man?
Well, yah know, God meant well by giving us this Book. But like always man Screws it up. Please. What God is it that you desire?
That is precisely what she is saying. "twisted and mangled"Quote:
your saying- the Bible can't be trusted.
I still wonder what you believe happens to those who reject the Gospel message.
I said, "our Old Adam is always very present to twist and mangle the words in the Bible."Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Yes. The words of the Bible have been, in your view, twisted and mangled, and are thus unreliable. What other meaning can come from such a statement?
What happens to those who reject the Gospel?
Thank you. I do my best.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
That would be true IF those were actually the words of Jesus. Some may be, some may not be. In any case, ALL those quotes are COPIES of what a writer put on paper (parchment?) 1700+ years ago. Jesus lived three centuries before that.Quote:
When I post the words of Jesus, you can accept them, reject them, or whatever, but however you respond, your response is to Him and not to me.
Your post was grossly INaccurate. It was only to relieve yourself of the responsibility of answering in your own words. Your reliance on a book is robotic. When someone disputes a passage from a book, you don't tell the person to go argue with the author, you present your position in your own words.Quote:
My post was entirely accurate.
Do you think Jesus will send to hell those sinners who do not hear the call? Your own words, please.Quote:
"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
How have you changed and become like a little child?Quote:
“Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mysterious words. Why will the Counselor not come if Jesus does not go away? Answer only if you can. No pressure. I don't expect you to unravel every mystery in the Gospels.Quote:
Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for your benefit that I go away, because if I don’t go away the Counselor will not come to you.
We heard you the first time. You have stated in the past "The bible (in itself) has been corrupted." So be it, no biggie. Believe what you will. You should know that the Bible is the Word of God. If you read it and believe in it, then it will spring to life in your mortal body. Hence the Living Word.Quote:
I said, "our Old Adam is always very present to twist and mangle the words in the Bible."
Earth to Athos. They were not my words. But even at that, why would you want my words when you have the words of Jesus? If you don't accept what Jesus said, why would you want to know my views?Quote:
It was only to relieve yourself of the responsibility of answering in your own words.
You haven't disputed a passage. You simply don't like them. It's not the same thing. Besides, do you really intend to argue with Jesus? Really?Quote:
Your reliance on a book is robotic. When someone disputes a passage from a book, you don't tell the person to go argue with the author, you present your position in your own words.
It makes no difference what I think. You have the words of Christ. Why would you want mine?Quote:
Do you think Jesus will send to hell those sinners who do not hear the call? Your own words, please.
He is speaking of the trusting disposition of a little child.Quote:
How have you changed and become like a little child?
So you believe the Bible has remained EXACTLY as it was when holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost? (2 Peter 1:21)Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
It will bring life. It has so much more 'meaning. It can be nothing other that the work of God.Quote:
So you believe the Bible has remained EXACTLY as it was when holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost? (2 Peter 1:21)
If it was at all the work of God, it would still remain the work of God. It's not a game of hide and seek.
It's not only when they spoke, it is their Walk there entire life that is in the Bible.Quote:
holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost?
Now THAT is a great, great question. It is most almost certainly not EXACTLY as it was when written. Has it been twisted and mangled? There is no evidence of that. The evidence shows that the Bible has been changed largely in terms of spelling and grammar which basically amounts to nothing. The estimates I see is that the Bible is over 99% accurate and that no major doctrines of the Bible have been effected by whatever relatively minor changes have taken place.Quote:
So you believe the Bible has remained EXACTLY as it was when holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost? (2 Peter 1:21)
So over the millennia, there have been no mistranslations, misunderstandings of words and terms and cultural references as the Bible has been translated from Hebrew and Greek to the English versions (note: VERSIONS) we have now?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Duh. Yes, I know. That is my point!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Answered above. Again: That would be true IF those were actually the words of Jesus. Some may be, some may not be. In any case, ALL those quotes are COPIES of what a writer put on paper (parchment?) 1700+ years ago. Jesus lived three centuries before that. That's why I want your words for your own belief.Quote:
even at that, why would you want my words when you have the words of Jesus?
Please stop misquoting me. I never said I don't accept what Jesus said. I clearly said that what you read in the Bible (probably KJV in dated English) has been misinterpreted by you.Quote:
If you don't accept what Jesus said,
Good question. I really don't - I already know them. I just want to see you own up to them without hiding behind the skirts of a book. (Bad metaphor, I know).Quote:
why would you want to know my views?
How soon they forget!Quote:
You haven't disputed a passage.
To help you see the error of your ways. Putting things in your own words helps to understand what you're quoting from a book.Quote:
Why would you want mine?
The question is - How have YOU become like a little child?Quote:
He is speaking of the trusting disposition of a little child.
Let us say there has been variants imposed into the Bible. If that is so, God will honor them. Remember, it was never God's intent for Israel to have a King. And if you look at history man has always interpreted The bible incorrectly. It still works.
P.S. Can I assume Athos is still going on about that 'Hell' thing?
Man Alive, He really doesn't like Hell! Strange, for a fellow that doesn't believe Hell exists. But hey, let him have his fun while it lasts. @Athos, No worries Athos, you ain't a gonna end up in Hell. I have a feeling Jesus has better plan for you.
Why do you think there are so many Christian denominations? Each has its own favorite beliefs somewhat different from the others' beliefs. Would you be comfortable in a Mormon church? a Lutheran church? (even different beliefs in those) a Catholic church? a Pentecostal church?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
You're digging that ditch deeper and deeper. You'll never be able to crawl out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
As far as I know, no one here has denied that the Bible is a"good book". It's even called that as a title!Quote:
It still works.
Easy enough to find out, Waldo. Just read my posts. If you don't read, you'll never know.Quote:
Can I assume Athos is still going on about that 'Hell' thing?
Do you like hell, walter? What is it you like?Quote:
He really doesn't like Hell!
Why is it strange? Would you be silent if you discovered others were preaching to children that horrible eternal torture awaits them if they don't believe in Jesus? Describing that torture? Is that your idea of fun?Quote:
Strange for a fellow that doesn't believe it exists.
For once, how about answering the question? You have a tendency to run away when things get difficult for you.
In the same sense that Jesus, Disciples Didn't know what he was talking about.Quote:
And if you look at history man has always interpreted The bible incorrectly.
I honestly tried, I could not figure out what you were going on about. I sensed a Hellish overtone from what I did read.Quote:
Just read my posts. If you don't read, you'll never know.
Honestly, I Don't really think about it.Quote:
Do you like hell,
I've been here all day.Quote:
You have a tendency to run away
That's so funny. Athos is the one who disappears for days at a time. Strange, indeed.Quote:
You have a tendency to run away
I've been here all day.
Of course there have been, but it is just silly to speaking of "twisted and mangled". The two are worlds apart.Quote:
So over the millennia, there have been no mistranslations, misunderstandings of words and terms and cultural references as the Bible has been translated from Hebrew and Greek to the English versions (note: VERSIONS) we have now?
If you're being honest, which I highly doubt, and you could not read what I wrote, then you've got a bigger problem than I thought. Anyone may disagree with WHAT I write, and some do, but they cannot complain HOW I write since my posts, like the others here, are coherent and properly constructed. Something that cannot be said for how YOU write.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Then why make an issue of it?Quote:
Honestly, I Don't really think about it.
That's not an answer, Waldo. Can you explain WHY you can't or won't answer that question?Quote:
I've been here all day.
You're full of merde, Jl. That's French for sh*t.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I seem to remember you disappearing for a month or so, n'est pas?
Tell you what. I'll point out the next time you disappear so we can all note it. It won't be long. And if you are going to call Walter "Waldo", then please don't whine anymore about some imaginary episode of me calling you names. That is really muet.Quote:
I seem to remember you disappearing for a month or so, n'est pas?
We don't have lives and responsibilities? You disappear during the afternoons and on Sundays.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
No, it's more like I could not look at it anymore. You can't seem to let it go. So I glanced over a few fragments and I could only guess what you were yammering about.Quote:
you could not read what I wrote
Huh? ya that was me.Quote:
Then why make an issue of it?
hmm, what was the question? As far as I knew you were done.Quote:
Can you explain WHY you can't or won't answer that question?
Not all that Strange. I have noticed- that's his MO. He's all too predictable really.Quote:
That's so funny. Athos is the one who disappears for days at a time. Strange, indeed.
Tell you what - shove it where the sun don't shine. You didn't explain your month absence. Or was it longer than that? Waldo can speak for himself. He sure as hell doesn't need you to do it for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Your nastiness is hardly imaginary. Don't forget, you're on record here - permanent record. Ask not for whom the death knell tolls - it tolls for thee.
Muet? You got me there.
Ah, there's the problem. You guessed at what I wrote. You have a habit of inadvertently writing what you don't want anyone to know. Keep doing it. Your subconscious at work. It helps all of us to see into your soul.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Here it is -Quote:
hmm, what was the question?
"Would you be silent if you discovered others were preaching to children that horrible eternal torture awaits them if they don't believe in Jesus? Describing that torture? Is that your idea of fun?"
Oh calm down. The world has not come to an end, not even for Darth Vader. "Luke! You are on permanent record here, Luke. Permanent as in forever and ever and ever, and then even longer than that. Keep your light saber near you at all times, Luke, for the death star tolls for thee!"Quote:
Tell you what - shove it where the sun don't shine. You didn't explain your month absence. Or was it longer than that? Waldo can speak for himself. He sure as hell doesn't need you to do it for him.
Your nastiness is hardly imaginary. Don't forget, you're on record here - permanent record. Ask not for whom the death knell tolls - it tolls for thee.
Nice try, but weak. You just ain't got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You really have to drop it down a notch or two, your not thinking strait.Quote:
You guessed at what I wrote.
What has gotten you so frazzled? I viewed a few scathing posts and I didn't look any further. I assumed you were referring to the Hell thingy.
I P.S.st in one of my posts. I wasn't really expecting getting a response from you (as far as I knew, you were done talking to me).
It turns out my hunch was right- you were making reference to the Hell thingy...why would I want to read any further. It was clear you were upset. You dislike it when Christians preach Hellfire and brimstone. I'm not a fan either.
Ah, you've been to a Catholic School?Quote:
Would you be silent if you discovered others were preaching to children that horrible eternal torture awaits them if they don't believe in Jesus?
Rather than accuse me of not thinking straight, why don't you say exactly what it is? There's a word for what you are doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Why do you bother at all if you won't read what I write? I'm feeding you so you can continue to play the troll. But you're starting to bore me. The lack of content, etc.Quote:
I viewed a few scathing posts and I didn't look any further
Here you are making assumptions after just admitting you won't read the posts. ?????????????Quote:
I assumed you were referring to the Hell thingy.
Because you're here on this website posting what you won't do? Why are you here then?Quote:
you were making reference to the Hell thingy...why would I want to read any further.
interesting that you keep saying I am "upset" or "frazzled" or something else. You must be getting that from your partner in crime.Quote:
It was clear you were upset.
Gee, ya think?Quote:
You dislike it when Christians preach Hellfire and brimstone.
You could have fooled me.Quote:
I'm not a fan either.
Quote:
Would you be silent if you discovered others were preaching to children that horrible eternal torture awaits them if they don't believe in Jesus?
What does THAT mean? As far as I know, Catholics believe in hell. Do you claim they don't?Quote:
Ah, you've been to a Catholic School?
More importantly, why didn't you answer the question?
Why are you trying to drag me into your little spat with JL. I'm staying out of it.Quote:
Would you be silent if you discovered others were preaching to children that horrible eternal torture awaits them if they don't believe in Jesus?
Ah, you've been to a Catholic School? Didn't mean anything other than I find most people with this sort of frustration have come from a Catholic School.
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