Ask Me Help Desk - Can a non-Christian do good?

Matt 19:16-17
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(KJV)

The answer to the question depends on what you define as "good". Jesus plainly says that only God is good. If you are asking about works that are helpful to others, then certainly non believers can do good, but no kind or degree of works will earn salvation.

So no one can do good if you follow the bible's word. Well that's settled then. I'll continue on doing my thing.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So no one can do good if you follow the bible's word. Well that's settled then. I'll continue on doing my thing.

Nice cop out! You didn't tell us what you mean by good. What the Bible says is that no one is good enough on their own to merit eternal life. Of course, if you don't want eternal life, then it's a moot question.

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Of course, if you don't want eternal life, then it's a moot question.

Eternal life is WAY overrated.

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

Eternal life is WAY overrated.

what makes you say that?

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Originally Posted by ineedhelpfast

what makes you say that?

It's a fond hope, at best, while this earthly life, so full of beauty and possibility, is often compromised and denigrated and cheapened by those who assure us that the next life is worth more than this one. I'm convinced that the best way to prepare for whatever comes next is to live this life with gratitude and respect and acceptance of the wonderful opportunities that it affords.

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

It's a fond hope, at best, while this earthly life, so full of beauty and possibility, is often compromised and denigrated and cheapened by those who assure us that the next life is worth more than this one. I'm convinced that the best way to prepare for whatever comes next is to live this life with gratitude and respect and acceptance of the wonderful opportunities that it affords.

That was very well said. Bravo.

What you say is true about gratitude and respect and so on, but I don't neglect this life because of a better one, if anything I try to help others enjoy this life, it is very sad to see all the depression and anger in our society. From school shootings to suicide. I don't press my beleifs on anyone, I just show them what god has done in my life, and its amazing

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

It's a fond hope, at best, while this earthly life, so full of beauty and possibility, is often compromised and denigrated and cheapened by those who assure us that the next life is worth more than this one. I'm convinced that the best way to prepare for whatever comes next is to live this life with gratitude and respect and acceptance of the wonderful opportunities that it affords.

What about this? Unforgiven sin keeps people out of Heaven and sends them to Hell. Sin also leads to STD's, alcoholism, broken homes, rape, murder, politicol corruption, wars, etc. Now if I lead a life aimed at Heaven, I'm going to miss all those bad things, so I'm in great shape. I will have a good life here if that is all there is. Those, on the other hand who dismiss all possibility of a hereafter- - - -.

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Sin also leads to STD's, alcoholism, broken homes, rape, murder, politicol corruption, wars, etc. Now if I lead a life aimed at Heaven, I'm going to miss all those bad things, so I'm in great shape. I will have a good life here if that is all there is. Those, on the other hand who dismiss all possibility of a hereafter- - - -.

The problem with your little theory is that christians "sin" just as much as non-christians, there really is no difference. Conversely there are just as many good people who are christian as non-christian.

A christian lives or tries to live a life style that is not always the same as the world, do some fail, of course, but in the end, in the eyes of the world, does no christians do good, yes, they help others, they do great works in the eyes of man, so often the worst sinner can be proclaimed to be the greatest best good person in the world.

But God does not look at the list of good works, he looks for he loves and serves and has accept him as their Lord and Savior.
And the largest difference in sin in the Christian, he is forgiven of those sins, and is not condemning thierself with that sin.

And to those that have no faith or hope for salvation, of course eternity is over rated, since of course they don't accept the fact that they will not be part of the eternal home.

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Those, on the other hand who dismiss all possibility of a hereafter- - - -.

I don't dismiss all possibility of it, I just don't think it has any real bearing on the proper way to live this life, i.e. kindly, gratefully, and generously. If there is an afterlife, I'll be glad, but I don't need the promise of it to induce me to live this one well. Would you become selfish and cruel without the threat of eternal punishment and the promise of eternal reward? I doubt it, actually.

The God that I understands, puts more in the actions, that we humans do, than the lip service spent about TRYING to be right, as we are no different, no matter what name, or group, we put ourselves in, or book we read. We are just dumb humans, who know no better, but keep hoping.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

... We are just dumb humans, who know no better, but keep hoping.

You may be, but I disagree with you on that. You can know better. You even should know better. But because your morals and ethics are based on the Christian basics you seem to lack the need for argumentation and justification for your views.
Nothing wrong with hope. But hope alone will hardly ever lead to anything better. You have to put more into that than just hope.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

You may be, but I disagree with you on that. You can know better. You even should know better. But because your morals and ethics are based on the Christian basics you seem to lack the need for argumentation and justification for your views.
Nothing wrong with hope. But hope alone will hardly ever lead to anything better. You have to put more into that than just hope.

But those without God don't even have hope, not for the life after this.
And of course as many say here morals and ethics are not just a Chrsitian issue but a issue of society, And there is no need to argue and most certainly no need to justify our beliefs. Those wanting a justification merely wish to not accept, which is thiere right, but when they wish to challenge those that believe they wish to merely try and take away that hope and belief form others.

I have always challenged that those that do this, are more than pure atheist, but are really those working for the other side, If one attacks one belief, they have to have a belief that is against it, not merely a belief of nothing.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

But those without God don't even have hope, not for the life after this.

I do not need hope for a life after this to be a good human being who does the right thing now. Only a donkey goes after the carrot...
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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

... of course as many say here morals and ethics are not just a Christian issue but a issue of society ...

The problem with that is that so many here BELIEVE that morals and ethics are a Christian issue!
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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

And there is no need to argue and most certainly no need to justify our beliefs.

That is an invalid suggestion, because many here state CLAIMS that are based on what they BELIEVE, instead of being based on objective support.
Of course you do not have to justify whatever you BELIEVE. But if you misuse whatever you BELIEVE as argument for the validity of your religious views please expect flack.
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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Those wanting a justification merely wish to not accept, which is thiere right ...

I don´t have any wish NOT to accept. But religious based claims make little sense to convince non-believers.
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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

... but when they wish to challenge those that beleive they wish to merely try and take away that hope and beleif form others.

This is not true. From me you may BELIEVE whatever you prefer. I will even defend your right to BELIEVE whatever you BELIEVE.
It is not my intention to take away hope and/or belief from others.
All I do is clearly state that what a person BELIEVES is not therefore the one and only truth.
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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I have always challenged that those that do this, are more than pure athiest, but are really those working for the other side.

What a ridiculous and unsupported proposition! What other side? If I reject deities, what "other side" is there?
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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

If one attacks one beleif, they have to have a belief that is against it, not merely a beleif of nothing.

As stated above : no belief is attacked here. But even if that were true, the argument is invalid. There is no need to believe the opposite if one argues a different personal view. Highlighting the invalidities of other views and claims is more than sufficient.
.
Your (now personal) attack at me shows that you run out of valid argumentation...
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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

But those without God don't even have hope, not for the life after this.

Those who doubt that the next life is more important than this one are less in need of hope for it.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

If one attacks one beleif, they have to have a belief that is against it, not merely a beleif of nothing.

Just so you know, it is possible to have no belief without disbelieving.

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

Those who doubt that the next life is more important than this one are less in need of hope for it.

It's not so much a case of doubt, but much more one of total lack of objective support for the existence of any format of afterlife.
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And besides that : why would an allmighty benevolent deity (if it exists) demand our total individual submission? The issue should be if the individual lived a "proper" life without causing unnecessary hurt to others.
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Hundreds of thousands of innocent victims in the Middle East due to a war supported by umpteen millions US Christians against those few not taking the Bible literally... What should a "deity" use as standard for being a good human being?
:confused:

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

Just so you know, it is possible to have no belief without disbelieving.

Spot on!;)

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

And there is no need to argue and most certainly no need to justify our beliefs.

For those who don't care whether their beliefs are true, you're right. Why justify them?

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Those wanting a justification merely wish to not accept, which is thiere right, but when they wish to challenge those that believe they wish to merely try and take away that hope and belief form others.

Fortunately, there are people who DO care if what they believe is true or not. If YOU don't care, that's fine for you. But we don't all have to live like that.

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I have always challenged that those that do this, are more than pure atheist, but are really those working for the other side, If one attacks one belief, they have to have a belief that is against it, not merely a belief of nothing.

What 'other' side? Do you really think that to have a lack of belief in something for which there is no evidence for is evil?

I couldn't stand living in this evil world if I didn't have hope.
Hope for a better life after this world is gone.
Hope for God to say to me, "Your name is in the Book of Life."
Hope for eternal salvation.
Hope is a wonderful thing to have.

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Originally Posted by Donna Mae

I couldn't stand living in this evil world if I didn't have hope.

I guess that's where we differ - you see this as an evil world. I pity you.

You may be, but I disagree with you on that. You can know better. You even should know better.
We learn more as we go through life.
But because your morals and ethics are based on the Christian basics
Actually I am not a Christian.
you seem to lack the need for argumentation and justification for your views.
I have no need for validation of my personal relationship with the God that I understand.
Nothing wrong with hope. But hope alone will hardly ever lead to anything better.
Except the consideration of the life path you take and the actions that come with your choices.
You have to put more into that than just hope.
We all hope our actions produce fruit, from our labor, don't you. Hope is what motivates us to take the right action.

But those without God don't even have hope, not for the life after this.
Maybe they don't dwell on the after life, but that doesn't mean they do not strive for a good life now.
And of course as many say here morals and ethics are not just a Chrsitian issue but a issue of society,
And a matter of personal choice.
And there is no need to argue and most certainly no need to justify our beliefs.
But there is a need to respect what others believe.
Those wanting a justification merely wish to not accept, which is thiere right,
Some need more evidence than others, but that does not diminish their choices.

but when they wish to challenge those that beleive they wish to merely try and take away that hope and beleif form others.
The challenge is in the way we convey what we believe to others.
I have always challenged that those that do this, are more than pure athiest,
That's an opinion, and yours, but no facts to back it up, so essentually your doing the same as you say they are, challenging a belief that is not yours.
but are really those working for the other side,
The otherside of what?
If one attacks one beleif, they have to have a belief that is against it,
not merely a beleif of nothing.
There are those that don't believe as you do, disagreement and debate is hardly an attack. As you disagree with them, they disagree with you. Not only is that their right, but their choice, and they have as much right as you do, to disagree.
__________________

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Originally Posted by Donna Mae

I couldn't stand living in this evil world if I didn't have hope.

If the world you live in is evil, your hope is a sham and a fraud.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

It's not so much a case of doubt, but much more one of total lack of objective support for the existance of any format of afterlife.

Well, let's face it. There's a "total lack of objective support" for ANYTHING that's predicted to happen in the future. That by itself doesn't bunch my shorts. What bunches my shorts is the idea that THIS life in this PHYSICAL body is not inherently valuable or holy and is therefore inconsequential except as the stage set for the drama of our choosing or rejecting the next one.

It won't bother me a bit if there is a next life, in fact I hope there is. But living THIS life as though its only worthy purpose is to get to heaven is a sacrilege, as I see it. I will live this life as though it were the most precious, exquisitely beautiful, and fragile gift imaginable, and treat it with the utmost respect and attention in order to understand how to live harmoniously and rewardingly with others. If that kind of life is not proper preparation and qualification for the next one, then I'll gratefully accept this one gift as sufficient.

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

If the world you live in is evil, your hope is a sham and a fraud.

The fact is, even all the self acknowledged non Christian / atheists / agnostics, on this thread keep on saying I'll do my best to be as "good" as I can in this lifetime.

This means that the above group acknowledges that there is right and wrong, good and evil.

Why?

As a believer, there is evil because that contrasts with the perfect holiness of God. A God that is the ultimate good. That is my hope.

If I did not believe in an ultimate "good" God, then there is only evil and ultimately despair.

And those who say that there is no evil in this world - don't kid yourselves.

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Originally Posted by inthebox

If I did not believe in an ultimate "good" God, then there is only evil and ultimately despair.
And those who say that there is no evil in this world - don't kid yourselves.

That's what DonnaMae was saying of this world - that it is evil. Whereas I, and a few others, were saying that there is much good as well, in fact we see more good than evil. No one was discounting that evil exists in this world, and it is done by christians and non-christians.

There would have to be a god for anyone, Christian or otherwise to be good in his eyes.

l- I certainly didn't mean to give the impression that my life is less than fulfilling, far from it! I have everything I could ever want in my life. A loving Father and Savior. A wonderful (the best) family that anyone could ever hope for. I have the joy in knowing that my family are Christians and that no matter what happens in this life, we will be together for eternity.

And yes I still believe that this is a sinful (evil) world. So many murders, people who get enjoyment out others pain, so many missing children, children being abused daily.
Babies murdered and people saying, "It's my body!" I consider all of these things evil.

I do believe in God so how about I pray for you?

I appreciate all honest questions about God and Jesus, but I don't want to get into anymore debates over whether they are real or a fairy tale.

I will say again, I know God is real and I know Jesus is our Savior and I know that the Bible is the true word of God.

And I don't believe that you are really interested in any answer I give, but I do hope that some day you will be.

Gos is not an entity that needs to have our deeds proven to. God is merely an idea within us. Any person on Earht can do something that will show someone's God that they are good.

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Originally Posted by lobrobster

For those who don't care whether or not their beliefs are true, you're right. Why justify them?

Fortunately, there are people who DO care if what they believe is true or not. If YOU don't care, that's fine for you. But we don't all have to live like that.
What 'other' side? Do you really think that to have a lack of belief in something for which there is no evidence for is evil?

Actually the Christian faith is justified it is call the Bible, so now accept it, well figure you won't like that answer but that is it, now the ball is in your court since God will hold you liable for your choice.

And yes, you are either for God or against God, there is no medium ground, Man is evil just because he is man it is only though Christ that there is salvation.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Actually the Christian faith is justified it is call the Bible,

That`s known as circular reasoning.

Does any one besides me find it curious that the top 3 religions come from the same region of the earth? (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) Sprouted from each other, and sees the rest of the world as pagans?

The bible is actually very clear on this issue. In Genesis it says that:

God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

What is not good is that man be alone. All the rest is religious speculation. God created and it was good. Ergo if God didn't create it, it isn't good.

Peace, Scotty

Can a non christian do good?

Well if you don't meet people... you'll never know!
And you surely need to find out yourself that's called experiencing life!

= Take whatever is coming to you... let the beauty of it move you..! =

Comment on black111madonna's post

Well said!

Comment on Handyman2007's post

I like it, reminds me of a bible verse in 1John: Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Comment on ordinaryguy's post

That last quote was provocative.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Actually the Christian faith is justified it is call the Bible, so now accept it, well figure you won't like that answer but that is it, now the ball is in your court since God will hold you liable for your choice.

So...

Q- Do we know God exists?

A- Of course. The bible tells us so.

Q- How do we know to believe the bible?

A- Because it is the word of God.
----------------------------------------------------

If such logic works for you, then you're welcome to it.

I'll ask again... Why not just call it faith and leave it at that? If you think the above line of reasoning is in any sense logically 'justified' you are sorely mistaken. Had you used the same method for acquiring knowledge about all other things in life, you'd still be learning to tie your shoes.