Ask Me Help Desk - Faith is not

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You demand others explain their beliefs while you never do so. You just provide Bible verses when asked to explain. Strikes me as a double standard.

1. I did not ask her to explain anything. I simply asked her what she believed the Bible teaches. If she wants to post several clear, to-the-point passages from the Bible, then I would be thrilled. It would be a massive change for either of you to do that.
2. I have explained to you what I believe. I believe that what Jesus said is true. His statements are utterly clear and utterly to-the-point. You don't like them nor believe them. That's your choice.

Your upset because you want to flip the discussion to what my opinions are. You can hardly wait to leap and pounce upon them. Then you get frustrated when I avoid that. I simply post what the Bible says and assure you that I believe those words. That way, if you want to argue, you'll have to argue with God. I'll warn you in advance; He is not moved by what you or I think.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Your upset because you want to flip the discussion to what my opinions are. You can hardly wait to leap and pounce upon them.

Calm down. Your panties are getting in a bunch again.

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I simply post what the Bible says

Yes, you do. That's the problem. You hide behind the verses and claim everybody else puts their "opinions" above the Bible. You never seem to realize that your choice of Bible Bingo is an opinion also.

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That way, if you want to argue, you'll have to argue with God.

There you go again! Equating your opinions with God.

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I'll warn you in advance

Of course you will. It wouldn't be you unless it was accompanied by a threat.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Stop complaining and grossly exaggerating. Give and take is all part of discussion. I have actually applauded you WILDLY for your discovery that there are those who reject the Gospel.

One wild (???) round of applause doesn't make up for months of applesauce.

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I simply asked you what you believe the Bible teaches about those people. If you don't know, or don't want to answer, then that's fine. We can move on.

I believe it's in God's hands, and is not in my wheelhouse.

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If she wants to post several clear, to-the-point passages from the Bible, then I would be thrilled.

The few times I have, they weren't good enough.

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Your upset because you want to flip the discussion to what my opinions are. You can hardly wait to leap and pounce upon them.

Calm down. Your panties are getting in a bunch again.

You're so funny (as in "strange"). You are so anxious to say something to sound "big" that you pick out practically anything and reply to it. I much prefer your Darth Vader persona. It's way over the top in drama, but that kind of suits you. As a comedian, you just don't cut it.

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Yes, you do. That's the problem. You hide behind the verses and claim everybody else puts their "opinions" above the Bible. You never seem to realize that your choice of Bible Bingo is an opinion also.

You just don't get it. There are those of us who live by what the Bible teaches. We are called "Christians". We don't hide behind verses, we simply believe them. You don't, and therein lies the difference.

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That way, if you want to argue, you'll have to argue with God.

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There you go again! Equating your opinions with God.

You are really slow in getting this. If you don't like the Bible, then you will have to take that up with it's author. See how simple that is?

WG

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One wild (???) round of applause doesn't make up for months of applesauce.

You have to deserve the applause to get it.

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I believe it's in God's hands, and is not in my wheelhouse.

Fair enough. Probably just raw evasion, but still fair enough. We can go with that.

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If she wants to post several clear, to-the-point passages from the Bible, then I would be thrilled.

The few times I have, they weren't good enough.

I'm sure you are referring to your last two water-weak attempts. They were clear, but absolutely not to-the-point in regards to what you were trying to establish.

WG said: One wild (???) round of applause doesn't make up for months of applesauce.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You have to deserve it to get it.

Just like how you think of heaven.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I'm sure you are referring to your last two water-weak attempts. They were clear, but absolutely not to-the-point in regards to what you were trying to establish.

I just can't cut the mustard, can I. Woe is me. I will NEVER be good enough for you.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You are so anxious to say something to sound "big" that you pick out practically anything and reply to it.

As an analyst, you are about as effective as a Bible thumper.

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I much prefer your Darth Vader persona.

Thank you. And thanks for saying what your DV means. I didn't know that.

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It's way over the top in drama, but that kind of suits you. As a comedian, you just don't cut it.

And you were being so complimentary there! Now you've reverted to your true colors of nastiness. Not a good example for a self-proclaimed Christian.

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You just don't get it.

Oh, I get it all right. More than you will ever know.

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There are those of us who live by what the Bible teaches.

Good for you. Has anyone here ever said differently?

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We don't hide behind verses

You don't explain yourself either, while demanding all sorts of things from others so you can entrap them. Not very Christian.

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we simply believe them

You believe literally. That's where your problem is.

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You don't, and therein lies the difference.

You have no idea what I believe, but that has never stopped you from claiming that you do. Among your many unfortunate tendencies, this is a big one - assuming you know the minds of others.

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You are really slow in getting this. If you don't like the Bible, then you will have to take that up with it's author.

There you go again. Your now familiar standby when you run out of steam - "I didn't write it, I just quote it. It means what I say it means".

Why is it you care about what I believe?

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There you go again. Your now familiar standby when you run out of steam - "I didn't write it, I just quote it. It means what I say it means".

And there you go again lying. I have never said that. You know, quoted passages need to be accurate.

I did come up with one other for you.

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

WG

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I just can't cut the mustard, can I. Woe is me. I will NEVER be good enough for you.

I would love to have you in a Bible class. I think I could teach you some useful principles of good hermeneutics AND get you past this business of feeling sorry for yourself.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Why is it you care about what I believe?

Because your belief re hell is horrible and should never be taught to children (or anyone) as a condition of salvation.

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WG

I think I could teach you some useful principles of good hermeneutics

WG can speak for herself, but I must point out that your so-called "teaching" would include the most horrific evil ever conceived by man.

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AND get you past this business of feeling sorry for yourself.

Just can't resist that bit of insulting nastiness, can you?

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Because your belief re hell is horrible and should never be taught to children (or anyone) as a condition of salvation.

Well you should be thrilled to know that I don't do that. And bear in mind, for the 710th time, that it is not my belief about hell that we are discussing. It is what Jesus taught that should really grab you. But it doesn't because you couldn't care less what Jesus said UNLESS it agrees with your preconceived ideas. Now is that true? If it's not, and you actually do care what Jesus said, then why don't you accept it?

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Just can't resist that bit of insulting nastiness, can you?

It's not nastiness. It's just truth. "Woe is me. I will NEVER be good enough for you."

Please. Stop.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Why is it you care about what I believe?

Athos wants to open your heart so you don't end up in that fiery hell for eternity.

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WG, I would love to have you in a Bible class. I think I could teach you some useful principles of good hermeneutics AND get you past this business of feeling sorry for yourself.

Sweety, I have been in and taught Bible classes all my adult life, plus have had more courses and classes in hermeneutics than you could shake a stick at. You didn't catch the sarcasm in my comment about cutting the mustard? Oh, my!

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

it is not my belief about hell that we are discussing

It isn't? Then what IS your belief re hell? YOUR belief, not a verse from the Bible.

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It's not nastiness. It's just truth. "Woe is me. I will NEVER be good enough for you."

No, it's nastiness, and your inability to recognize irony.

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Please. Stop.

Sure, as soon as you stop your sick hell promotion, and your ubiquitous nastiness.

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It isn't? Then what IS your belief re hell? YOUR belief, not a verse from the Bible.

I believe that what the Bible teaches about hell is correct. For instance, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Now bear in mind that Jesus is the one speaking.

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Sure, as soon as you stop your sick hell promotion, and your ubiquitous nastiness.

"Ubiquitoous"!! Wow. That's are real Darth Vaderism.

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No, it's nastiness, and your inability to recognize irony.

Could have been irony except that she is clearly afraid to express her opinion lest someone actually challenge her on it.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Could have been irony except that she is clearly afraid to express her opinion lest someone actually challenge her on it.

I'm not afraid; my soul is weary. I've expressed my ideas on topics but have been told by you my pov is incorrect. Apparently, no honest discussion with you is possible.

Discussion isn't a slam-bam thing but full of questions, like "Have you ever read xxx? If so, what did you think about it?" or "I've always believed this about xxx. What is your experience?"

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I'm not afraid; my soul is weary. I've expressed my ideas on topics but have been told by you my pov is incorrect. Apparently, no honest discussion with you is possible.

I ask you for evidence (scripture, for instance) to support your view. On nearly every occasion, you have nothing. That is not my fault. That's why I would like to have you in a Bible class, to teach you how to discover truth in the Bible, or even just how to support an idea with evidence.

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no honest discussion with you is possible.

That is really, really, really whiny. I am not going to treat you like a little helpless female. The evidence of your life suggests you are a perfectly intelligent, brave, and accomplished human being, so I treat you in that manner. If you ever see how much you have allowed your political inclinations to influence your world view, you are going to be shocked, and it will be a great day.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I believe that what the Bible teaches about hell is correct. For instance,

I see you can't express yourself on the topic without throwing out Bible verses, even when specifically asked to do so. Same old, same old..... yawn.....

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Now bear in mind that Jesus is the one speaking.

Nooo, it's a 2,000 year old piece of paper that CLAIMS to be Jesus speaking. As a guy big on evidence, you ought to know that.

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"Ubiquitoous"!! Wow.

It's a big word only to you which is surprising for a self-proclaimed high school principal ... hmmm. Plus you're not much of a speller, are you? More hmmm.... Get spelchek.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The evidence of your life suggests you are a perfectly intelligent, brave, and accomplished human being, so I treat you in that manner.

You treat EVERYONE who doesn't agree with you like a helpless, whiny baby.

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you have allowed your political inclinations to influence your world view, you are going to be shocked, and it will be a great day.

I shouldn't love others and do what I can to help those who have been crushed by life and by other people?

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You treat EVERYONE who doesn't agree with you like a helpless, whiny baby.

If you mean I think everyone should be able to support their contentions with evidence, then I plead guilty.

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you have allowed your political inclinations to influence your world view, you are going to be shocked, and it will be a great day.

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I shouldn't love others and do what I can to help those who have been crushed by life and by other people?

No. Those concepts come only from the Christian/Jewish faiths and it's wonderful you hold them. It's the ideas that transgenderism is fine, gay marriage is fine, homosexual behavior is fine, sex outside of marriage is fine, and abortion is fine that come from your political inclinations.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

If you mean I think everyone should be able to support their contentions with evidence, then I plead guilty.

But you never accept any evidence.

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No. Those concepts come only from the Christian/Jewish faiths and it's wonderful you hold them. It's the ideas that transgenderism is fine, gay marriage is fine, homosexual behavior is fine, ...that come from your political inclinations.

Once Adam and Eve ate that apple, the universe became open to unlimited possibilities. No more binary. I have a number of friends and some relatives who are in the LGBT+ community, and I love them dearly. Nope, no influence from political inclinations, just from living life for many years.

Try a little love, JL, not bashing Bibles on people's heads.

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But you never accept any evidence.

Such as when?

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Once Adam and Eve ate that apple, the universe became open to unlimited possibilities. No more binary.

Where does the Bible teach that there is "no more binary"? Does Jesus support your idea when he said, "Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? " That sure sounds awfully binary, doesn't it? It's almost as though He is speaking to you. "Have you not heard? Wondergirl, have you not heard what God has said? Have you not heard?"

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Such as when?

Always.

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Where does the Bible teach that there is "no more binary"? Does Jesus support your idea when he said, "Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? " It's almost as though He is speaking to you. "Have you not heard?"

Yes, the Creator made them male and female but that apple-eating episode queered the deal. Now the human, animal, and even plant world are no longer only binary.