uncleshal,
You have made a very good point.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
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uncleshal,
You have made a very good point.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Hebrews 2: 1-3
We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation?
Acts 16: 30-34
He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in the house. At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.
You just need to finish the scripture. "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Donna Mae II,
Yes that is true we must do as the bible says do.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Curious here?? What would have happened to that jailer if after his confession and during the washing of their wounds he would have croaked? Of course baptism should follow the confession but for many reasons it does not IMMEDIATELY. What would happen if I were to lay in a hospital bed and turned to the Lord just before I died. I confessed I was a sinner and I needed HIM, then I died. Because I didn't have a chance to be baptized does that make me unsaved? I think NOT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Mae II
Salvation is of the Lord. All we can do is believe it by faith and accept the free gift.
Romans 10:9 IF thou shalf confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believen in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.
By the way.. I was baptized in the 3rd grade but I was saved several years before the baptism.
I do fully believe that we must be baptized into Christ, and that as soon as we accept Jesus as our Savior, we should be baptized. But as you said things can happen like an auto accident on the way to be baptized, that's where God's grace comes in. God can save anyone, but I wouldn't want to take the chance of losing my salvation by putting off being baptized. God knows our hearts and if we put it off thinking, I'm saved, I can be baptized anytime--that's wrong, and we could lose our salvation. Why would anyone want to postpone something so important to salvation.
Donna Mae II,
Yes it is a big mistake to put off being baptized.
However there are many theologians who think that if a person intends to be baptized but for some reason such as a car accident prevented that for taking place they call that "Baptism by Intent" and God's mercy and grace prevails.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Again, God can't and won't go against his word. If physical baptism is required of one for salvation.. it is required of all. NO exceptions.
Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shalll be saved.
Believe on the Lord Jesus christ and thou shalt be saved...
If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.
Salvation is of the LORD.
We are automatically spirtially baptized with Christ... something GOD does when we call upon him for salvation.
The physical act is an outward expression of an inward belief. The Lord Jesus told us to do it. I did... it didn't save me.
The Lord Jesus told us to remember him in his death with the bread and wine. I do. It doesn't save me.
The Lord Jesus said... if you love me, you will obey me.
Anyone who has called on the Lord Jesus for salvation are in direct disobedience if they don't get baptized.
It takes another human being to baptize a person. It is PREPOSTEROUS to think that the Lord would leave ANYTHING to man, he finished the work the only thing left for us to do is receive it by faith.
ONE more time for good measure... Salvation is of the LORD. Jonah 2:9
classyT,
STOP and think a minute about that...
Jesus left a lot of things and activities for we human followers of Him to do.
He told his followers (among other things) to go out into the world preaching and teaching AND to baptize. That's three different things.
He said TO DO THAT!!
I do believe that Jesus meant what He said.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Yes, salvation is of the Lord. And He also said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
dwashbur
God doesn't tell us if the thief on the cross was baptized or not. He could have been baptized by John's baptism.
Donna,
... even IF he were baptized what good did it do him? He obviously hadn't repented.. he was on the cross for crimes he committed. AND... at first HE was trash talking the Lord with the other thief... He watched and he listened to Jesus on that cross and had a HEART change. What good does baptism do IF you don't have a heart change? It does NOTHING. Just another useless act.
The Bible after the death and resurrection of Christ instructs us to BELIEVE first and then get baptized. Not the other way around.
Actually, there's only one thing in the Greek of the Great Commission in Matthew 28: make disciples. The next two actions, teaching and baptizing, are aspects of that command. "Make disciples" is an imperative (command) while "teaching" and "baptizing" are participles (descriptive) explaining some of what's involved in making disciples.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
That comes from my alter ego, Sir Nitpick ;) (I sometimes have a hard time controlling him.)
Donna, there is nothing at all in the text to even hint at such a thing. You can speculate, of course, but that's all it is. And it gets us nowhere.
Hi my name is kira and I have seen your question. I was confused and scared on this before too but not until I had read this one on a site. READ:
Now some churches multiply rules: you can’t drink, you can’t smoke, you can’t go to movies, you can’t dance, you can’t wear makeup,. But others take Luther’s realization to mean that, "Now that I’m a Christian and recited the magic words, I’ve got it made, and it doesn’t matter what I do. I can be as mean and nasty as I want. I’m saved." Have you ever met anyone like that?. Uh-huh, I have too.
And of course, that’s not right either. This is where the words of James are so important. Faith without works is dead. It’s not enough to learn about swimming from a book and recite the swimmers creed. You have to go in the water.
As Christians, we are freed from the law and the petty rules and legalisms. As Paul says, "The law kills, but the Spirit gives life."... New life. So if we are Christians, then we will exhibit the fruits of the Holy spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
But this doesn’t happen just because we say we believe in Jesus. Our faith is a free unmerited gift of God; but it’s not magic. We must accept God’s grace, and let it work in us. It’s not enough to say we believe in Jesus. We must accept him as our Lord and Savior and Master. That means committing our lives to him. It means committing to following his example, as best we can.
If you are wondering where it says faith without works is dead it is in the scripture in the bible is James 2:26.
Study hard on this what I have written. Yes of course it is possible to get a start and be saved by believing what he's done for you in your heart and by calling on his name but notice that it isn't just enough. As Christians we are new creatures Corinthians 5:17. If we are made new then the old has passed and new has come (changing from our sins and old ways to new ways). Yes it is possible to go to heaven being a sinner but there are painful consequences for that on judgement day which is when we die. We cannot just receive God and fully follow our own ways though and not try to change because that is not having works and we do not truly have faith then because it is dead without works. We need faith and works to get there! Having works is having the desire to change in the heart and trying to and wanting to be different. So those who don't believe in Christ or God and or do not follow his ways at all but there own will more likely perish. We need to have that desire to change and try to and give our lives to him.
We cannot get into heaven doing our own will and not some of his but not making a excuse of those who do not follow somewhat or do some things because they want. There is judgement day for that and they will pay the price the bible says so.
kiralyfe33,
Welcome.
I agree with you on this.
The bible gives us several examples of what we must do.
In fact one is a commandment issued by Jesus Christ and that is "Love one another as I have loved you.
Another example is if you want to be forgiven you must forgive others. Those who do not forgive will not be forgiven.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
I'd just like to say this... I really dislike the term "once saved, always saved". Because the first thing people think is we can call on the Name of the Lord and be saved and then NOT change on the inside one bit.
Jesus said we shall know true believers by their fruit. Paul lists the fruit of the spirit in Galatians.
If a person NEVER displays real fruit in their lives, then I would sincerely doubt their salvation. ( But only God knows the heart)
I can tell you this, I was saved as a child. I love the Lord Jesus and the Lord himself said something like this... if you love me, you will obey me.
Ok, having said ALL that. I have stepped outside of the will of God for my life MANY times. In other words... I was disobedient. There have been times in my life where you'd NEVER have known I was a Christian because I acted like the world or worse. AND I never once lost my salvation. NEVER
AND... incidently HE was ever wooing me back to Himself. Always!! He never gave up. Because I am his child. And besides ALL of that I ended up miserable, lonely and missing HIM desperately.
Lets not kid ourselves! The Bible even says there IS pleasure in sin for a season. I mean it can be fun. But for a Christian... I couldn't continue on because I was tormented and I had no peace. So after I reaped what I sowed... I would come running back and he took me because I am HIS OWN. He never left me anyway. I wondered off... still sealed with His wonderful Spirit.
Do I believe that a true believer in Christ can lose their salvation? Isn't NO way. My Bible says I'm SEALED with the Holy Spirit. BUT there is always a consequence for sin... this verse is for EVERYBODY.. those that are Christians those that are NOT Christians.
Be not deceived, God is not mocked for whatsoever a man soweth, THAT shall he reap.
(galatians.. I don't know the chapter and verse off hand.)
Sow the good stuff, reap the good stuff. Sow the sin, reap the consequence. Your choice.
Some people call I Karma... I call it a biblical promise!
classyT,
A true Christian believer will do as Jesus and the bible say.
That means that they (believers) ARE working their faith.
But...
The person who does not work his/her faith proves that their faith is DEAD and therefor NOT a true believer.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred,
We really are on the same page... sorta. I DO think we can get into a sin cycle. I have, it didn't change my position in Christ. I am IN HIM and No one is going to take me out. Not even ME.
Check out what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5 about the guy that is living with his stepmother in a sexual relationship. ( ewwwwww, yuck and barf.. btw). Paul calls this guy a brother... he doesn't say he lost his salvation. He says to turn him over to satan so satan could have at him but his soul would be saved in the end. Turns out the guy repented and so did the assembly for letting this go on before their eyes.
All the Lord wants is for us to judge ourselves and repent from our sins. He doesn't throw us out of the family. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ( incidentally it is what the Bible teaches too )
BUT someone who just says a prayer for salvation and who NEVER changes... I wouldn't own them as a Christian. BUT... only GOD knows the heart.
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