WG

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Why are you dissing me?

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I thought you could handle it. Yesterday you showed extraordinary spiritual strength by quoting all those verses about how salvation is NOT OSAS. And you seemed to accept my compliment about how much better you are with the Bible than I am.

What happened today ? Today you're all vulnerable and hurt?? What happened to the extraordinary fortitude you showed testerday ? :eek:

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

WG

I thought you could handle it.

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I see. The thing is, the dissing reflects on you more than on me. I don't feel "all vulnerable and hurt," but my opinion of you did a u-turn.

WG

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I am a (redeemed) sinner. Why isn't He hiding from me?

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I'm sorry that you're feeling vulnerable today.;)

But here's more about God hiding, for the original posting of the question about seeking God. God in His true nature is so glorious and so majestic that unprepared sinners cannot be in His presence without being destroyed. When Moses asked to see God's glory, God had to hide Moses in the cleft of a rock. Then YHWH passed by and allowed Moses to see just the edge of His glory. We are still part of that generation of wickedness that cannot have total and complete fellowship with the fullness of God's glory. Only after we've been born again AND have also received our new eternal spiritual bodies in the rapture, THEN and only then will God appear to us in His full glory. Until that day, much of God remains hidden to us.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

WG
I'm sorry that you're feeling vulnerable today.;)

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And I'm so sorry that God is hiding from you today. :(

WG

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I don't feel "all vulnerable and hurt," but my opinion of you did a u-turn.

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You're only confirming my original observation about the cat and mouse scenario.

WG

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And I'm so sorry that God is hiding from you today

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I acknowledge the importance of PROTOCOL !

Allow me to observe that we seem to be going in different directions. There is a huge distinction between seeing God face to face and having knowledge about Him gained from Bible study and prayer.

Though with the often careless and imprecise way we utilize language (and words) the one (face to face) could be loosely defined as seeking and finding God.

And the other (Bible knowledge) can also be loosely defined as seeking and finding God.


However the fact remains that seeing God face to face IS NOT THE SAME AS Bible knowledge of God.

O.K.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

WG

However the fact remains that seeing God face to face IS NOT THE SAME AS Bible knowledge of God.

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Neither of those is what I'm talking about.

WG

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Neither of those is what I'm talking about.

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In that case I can only guess. But based on what you revealed about yourself earlier (anemia, cancer) I would venture to say that you're referring to the physical (material) blessings, including healing their illnesses, that God very generously gives to many, many people. Even to those He has no intention of saving.

However, all of that in my opinion, should not be considered as part of God's gospel of salvation, which is completely spiritual.

The Church should be viewed more like a hospital than a club. Welcome anyone who is sick, we are not the doctors but we know Him. We cannot judged because we have not been judged... but forgiven.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

WG

In that case I can only guess. But based on what you revealed about yourself earlier, I would venture to say that you're referring to the physical (material) blessings

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I mentioned physical, but also mentioned emotional, i.e. spiritual.

God is a very constant Presence in my life, and I see His face in all the faces I encounter
Each day.

(I see "someone," perhaps a very hurt and vulnerable someone? NOT! taught you how to use colors in the text.)

Southamerica

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I'm thrilled for anyone who is on a journey to seek God.

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Me too. I'm very thrilled. Though my reasons may be somewhat different from your kind of thrill. In keeping to the purpose of this thread... I wish to say that the phrase "seeking God" means to me, seeking not the material blessings of this life, but rather seeking humility, seeking meekness, so that God will notice that my desire for salvation is genuine. The Bible clearly states that "God resists the proud, but gives grace (grace is a synonym for salvation) to the humble." The truly humble person will be open to learn everything they can from God's word the Bible.

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The Church should... Welcome anyone who is sick,

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There is much spiritual evidence in the Bible that God has commanded believers to get out of the churches because Satan is ruling there. That will all come to an end May 21, 2011.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

southamerica

Me too. I'm very thrilled. Though my reasons may be somewhat different from your kind of thrill. In keeping to the purpose of this thread...I wish to say that the phrase "seeking God" means to me, seeking not the material blessings of this life, but rather seeking humility, seeking meekness, so that God will notice that my desire for salvation is genuine. The Bible clearly states that "God resists the proud, but gives grace (grace is a synonym for salvation) to the humble." The truly humble person will be open to learn everything they can from God's word the Bible.


There is much spiritual evidence in the Bible that God has commanded believers to get out of the churches because Satan is ruling there. That will all come to an end May 21, 2011.

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I don't judge, but it is not difficult to feel the presence of people who try to do good-regardless of what they seek.

My dad always said that when people gather to discuss God, that is a church. When dad and I would go on hikes in the mountains-that was my church. Days full of talking about life, God, and generally feeling full of God's love. Those were good days. My "church" is always in nature (and I don't mean that I worship nature... haha).

WG

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God is a very constant Presence in my life

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Nice!!

Your sentence which I have quoted above is, to me, a simple statement of absolute fact. In other words, like gravity, God is present everyplace He chooses to be. Theologians call that omnipresent. But there I would draw a very sharp line. His presence or His absence has nothing whatever to do with my perception of it, or how I feel about it. It simply is. By no stretch of the imagination (or anything else) does that now mean that I have found God because I was seeking Him. The Bible describes God as being full of eyes, in Ezekiel. And the Bible describes the area surrounding His throne as a sea of glass, in Revelation. Those two metaphors indicate that God sees everything in the universe simultaneously and clearly. A totally mind boggling concept to us humans. But it hints that He is also present, or at least projects His power everywhere at the same time. He is "upholding all things by the word of His power." (Hebrews 1:3) Even if He does not allow us to be particularly intimate with His glory.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

the phrase "seeking God" means to me, seeking not the material blessings of this life, but rather seeking humility, seeking meekness, so that God will notice that my desire for salvation is genuine.

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That sounds very much like the Pharisees of the NT. God has already given us salvation. What God wants now is for us to desire and provide for the wellbeing and care of "the least of these" (Matt. 25:40). That's what Jesus said is the Second Greatest Commandment: Love others. Obeying that commandment is our thank-you to God for His love and grace in saving us from eternal death.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

feel

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I may end up shooting myself for having showed you how to do that.

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I have found God because I was seeking Him.

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We don't find God; He finds us.

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I don't judge, but it is not difficult to feel the presence of people who try to do good-regardless of what they seek. My dad always said that when people gather to discuss God, that is a church. When dad and I would go on hikes in the mountains-that was my church. Days full of talking about life, God, and generally feeling full of God's love. Those were good days. My "church" is always in nature (and I don't mean that I worship nature... haha).

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I can empathize and understand how you feel. Both my parents come from a European and artistic background with a deep appreciation for the charms of nature. And they made every reasonable effort to share their love of that culture with their children.

However, as wonderful and as loving as that was, it is no substitute for the Holy Bible, God's word to us. The Bible defines a church by three very specific traits.
[1] A hierarchy of spiritual overseers, elders, deacons, pastors, teachers, etc.
[2] A membership that must be fed with God's word, and that can be disciplined by acts such as excommunication.
[3] It must offer the ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table (communion).

Unless those three criteria are met, it is not a church by the standards of the Holy Bible.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

I can empathize and understand how you feel. Both my parents come from a European and artistic background with a deep appreciation for the charms of nature. And they made every reasonable effort to share their love of that culture with their children.

However, as wonderful and as loving as that was, it is no substitute for the Holy Bible, God's word to us. The Bible defines a church by three very specific traits.
[1] A hierarchy of spiritual overseers, elders, deacons, pastors, teachers, etc.
[2] A membership that must be fed with God's word, and that can be disciplined by acts such as excommunication.
[3] It must offer the ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table (communion).

Unless those three criteria are met, it is not a church by the standards of the Holy Bible.

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I guess I'll take my chances :)

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

The Bible defines a church by three very specific traits.
[1] A hierarchy of spiritual overseers, elders, deacons, pastors, teachers, etc.
[2] A membership that must be fed with God's word, and that can be disciplined by acts such as excommunication.
[3] It must offer the ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table (communion).

Unless those three criteria are met, it is not a church by the standards of the Holy Bible.

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Whew! The LCMS qualifies!! Yay!!

What about Matt. 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them"?

WG

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We don't find God; He finds us.

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Exactly!!

But one of the rules of this site is that as long as we are on a thread that stems from a question, we should make every reasonable effort to continue to service that original question. All other comments and general conversation belongs in an area called Member Dicussions board.

So while I do agree, that for the purposes of salvation it is God who finds us, this question is about us seeking God.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

So while I do agree, that for the purposes of salvation it God who finds us, this question is about us seeking God.

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Our seeking God is part of Sanctification. I said we seek God in the faces of all those around us, ministering to the least among us.