Quote:

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Originally Posted by adam7gur

sndbay!
Dear sister!
I can see what is in your mind but I cannot see what is in your heart that causes you to think and express the way you do.
Please tell me what is troubling you.

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What we have been given is a new nature. The "Old Man" as it is written in (Romans 6:6).. What about him?" The Old Man" was crucified with Christ. We are told he "is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts" (Eph. 4:22).
"The Old Man" is full of desires or lusts. These lusts are deceitful and deceiving. They are in all things contrary to God, contrary to His Spirit, and His Word compared to the new nature, the spirit, when it is once implanted within us. In this connection, it is called to salvation.

"The Outward Man"; as being that which is seen, and that which actually perishes (2 Cor. 4:16), and this is "day by day". This tells us that as long as we are in the flesh, we must suffer this "burden": and that no ordinance connected with that which perishes, can be of any avail in that domain where all is, and must be spiritual; of the Spirit.

"The Heart" the natural heart, which is "deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked" (Jer. 17:9), so deceitful that it constantly deceives and betrays us: so deceitful that none but God can really know it. The Lord Jesus has some "teaching about the heart" of the natural man in Matthew 15:19. "Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies."

"The Carnal Mind." This aspect of the old nature is even more serious than the others. They relate rather to acts, and conditions, and character; but this relates to thoughts; to the mental activities, and reasonings and imaginations of the natural man (Rom. 8:7).


"Every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Gen. 6:5).
(Rom. 8:7, 8) that this "mind of the flesh" is "Enmity against God." "Not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." And "cannot please God."
"That which is born (or, begotten) of the flesh is flesh"



POINT IN FACT: They are born of the flesh. Only "that which is born (or, begotten) of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6).
"Whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever" (Eccl. 3:14)
"Every plant which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up" (Matt. 15:13).

POINT OF FACT:
"He That Soweth To His Flesh Shall Of The Flesh Reap Corruption" (Gal. 6:8). All efforts to improve the flesh, all provision made for the flesh, all ordinances connected with the flesh, all end in corruption and death: all "perish with the using" (Col. 2:22).



The New Man (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10). This is opposite to "the old man". This New Man, being entirely in the likenss of Christ, is called "a new creation" (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15). And "according to the image/righteousness of HIM that created him" (Col. 3:10).

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation" (Gal. 4:15; Co1. 3:10, 11). So can we acknowledge that in this connection the new nature is called to salvation? YES

"The Inward Man" (Rom. 7:22; 2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 3:16). This is the opposite of "the outward man" which perishes day by day, while this "inward man is renewed day by day" REJOICE!!!

We are being nourished and replenished day by day with grace and strength by the Holy Spirit; so that Christ can dwells in the heart by faith [Eph. 3:16) We learn something of His love which passeth knowledge, and are filled with all the fulness of God (5:19)
Remember Apostle Paul saying (and all who have like precious faith) to cry out, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death" "I thank God, He will deliver me through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 7:24). REJOICE!!!

The Mind (Rom. 7:23, 25). The word here used for "the mind" is nous meaning the new nature. This "mind" serves the law of God (Rom. 7:25) This is the Law of Faith in ONE LORD ONE FAITH ONE BAPTISM (Eph 4:4-5)

And all this because God has created within us a new nature, which He calls pneuma-Christou. However, here on earth, it is our privilege to share His rejection. "The world knoweth us not because it knew Him not" (1 John 3:1).

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Point of Fact
If anyone desires the darkness of the oldman, it is their free will to follow darkness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by classyT

Sndbay,

The Lord Jesus' standard is GO AND SIN NO MORE....period. I agree with every verse that says we are NOT to sin. But ......WE DO! (sometimes) WHY? because we still have that sin nature that WANTS to sin...loves sin. My new nature doesn't want to! IT CAN'T sin because He is the HOLY SPIRIT and He wants only to do the Father's will. So anytime a born again Christian sins...you can REST assured it was NOT the Holy Spirit that indwells them. It was their flesh or sin nature. THAT is why Paul said to reckon it dead. AND why he had to it everyDAY. We are told to do the same.

One last thing...that old man WAS crucified on the cross ( Spirtually )like Paul said...but IT HAS TO CONTINUE to be crucified daily. Oh it wants to live let me tell ya....least mine does and SURELY i am not the only one that has to die to my will everyday. am I?

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Yes ClassyT, you have detailed the Inward Man.


"The Inward Man" (Rom. 7:22; 2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 3:16). This is the opposite of "the outward man" which perishes day by day, while this "inward man is renewed day by day" REJOICE!!!

We are being nourished and replenished day by day with grace and strength by the Holy Spirit; so that Christ can dwells in the heart by faith [Eph. 3:16) We learn something of His love which passeth knowledge, and are filled with all the fulness of God

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.


Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

This one person of mind, body and spirit does try to walk in the spirit of Christ.
If I could I also would heal the sick and give sight to the blind.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

This one person of mind, body and spirit does try to walk in the spirit of Christ.
If I could I also would heal the sick and give sight to the blind.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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By the hand of God, YES, I believe your heart of love would Fred. May God bless you, and may you be all He created you to be my brother.

Gal.5:16 -26, Spirit and Human Nature
16, So I tell you; Live by following the Spirit. Then you will not do what your sinful
Self want. 17 Our sinful selves want what is against the Spirit , and the Spirit
Wants what is against our sinful selves. The two are against each other, so you cannot
Do just what you please. 18 But if the Spirit is leading you, you are not under the law.
19 The wrong things the sinful self does are clear: being sexually unfaithful, not being pure,
Taking part in sexual sin, 20 worshiping gods, doing witchcraft, hating, making trouble, being jealous, being angry with each other, causing division among people,
21, feeling envy, being drink, having wild and wasteful parties, and doing other things like these. I warn you now as I have warned you before: Those who do these things will not
Inherit God's Kingdom. 22 But the Spirit produces the fruit of love , joy, peace, patience,
Kindness, self-control. There is no law that says these things are wrong. 24 Those
Who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their old sinful selves. They have given up their old selfish feelings and evil things they wanted to do. We get our new life from
The Spirit, so we should follow the Spirit. 26 We must not be proud or make trouble with
Each other or be jealous of each other.

Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

Heart of Love

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Walk in the Spirit


1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Don't be doubleminded, and fool yourself

Gal 6:7-8 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Parable spoken by Christ

Luke 5:36-37-39 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old. And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.


Is this the heart of the old nature
Luke 5:40 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

To all here.
This has been an enlightening subject.
Thank you all for participating.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

If you take all of what was spoke on this thread and apply it to the thread of Baptism it makes a complete circle of love send by God.

Every baptism in scripture is done of water. Whether you are led to water by John the Baptist, or led by the disciples, all were bapized by the spirit of God, and water. ( and eventually that was shown of the early day baptism) Acts 1:5- 11:16

That is exactly why I trust that man can led you to water of baptism or preach baptism of the Holy Spirit, HOWEVER it take no hands of man to baptize of the Holy Spirit..


Let me example this another way,
The church priest leds the infant or adult to baptize them with water, so they were led to the water of baptism. It is only by the hand of God, known as the spirit of God, that baptizes with the Holy Spirit. The scripture in Acts have exampled that, by the word of our Lord. The Holy Spirit would be given by the hand of God.

I believe the spirit of God does manifest the revealed truth within the infant or adult when God Wills. And the Holy Spirit is not given until the confessed belief of the begotten Son, Jesus Christ .(surrender by their will and it is NOT the hands of man that forced you under water, but rather your will to submerge and be baptized)

That is also why I believe infants should be dedicated to God as infants, and led to water of baptism at an older age.. when the reveal truth and quicken spirit by the Holy Spirit can offer the newness of life, and putting a cap on the old nature or outward man.

The intention of the church is good, but God is patient to manifest forbearance in accordance to HIS Will.

This confirms was why Peter said the Gentiles who received the Holy Spirit must still be baptized of water..

************
What I believe is that Our Father in Heaven sent HIS begotten Son.(the soul of who Christ was). And Christ Jesus was born of blood and water. The blood of man that walked this earth was born of HIS mother Mary, and the spiritual body that He was was born of water the Holy Spirit. As a flesh man, Christ walked the same path that we are to walk doing the Will of the Father. As the Son of God given to die for our sin, Christ was raised to sits on the right hand of the Father.
Acts 2:32-33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


For us to follow Christ

Matthew 20:3 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

May God reveal the spirtual body of awareness

John 7:38-39 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

We had no hope of the Holy Spirit until Christ gave up the Spirit on the cross from His flesh body.

1 Corinthains 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


Understand that is how by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that our Inward Bodies can be renewed daily.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man

2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man

May the Spirit rest within ~in Christ

sndbay,
So the baby jumps into the water by himself. Eh?
I sincerely doubt that.
So the Holy Spirit speaks out and says I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, eh?
I also doubt that.
Yes the Holy Sirit is involved but so are the men who perform the ceremony as Jesus commanded.
The Holy Spirit abides with those who are baptized properly.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
So the baby jumps into the water by himself. eh?
I sincerely doubt that.

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What Baby?

Edit:Add
I think u are making the point that I have stated. (Children might be able to come, and be baptism because they wanted to do so) However a baby can't walk or talk. (So who's will is it being suffered to righteousness, in being begotten again, or born again) A baby at birth is holy according to scripture, and today we are NOT in bondage to sin, so the baby is sinless to further it's walk to learn, and decide on it's own free will and Liberty of Faith.

Fred I was baptized at one month old by the Lutheran denomination, and my parents hearts wanted me to follow Christ. When I was older my heart wondered whyy God made me a person, and why couldn't I have been an angel. It was a child's question to God.

From that day on I wanted to understand more about the word of God, and got up early in mornings to read and talk my thoughts over with God. There were many reproves and I believe God was always there to help me. My heart wanted my body swipe clear like scripture said, and it is true that satan will come and try to turn you back from following God!!

My heart became sad and felt helpless to what was happening. God is always there if we listen, and my heart knew it and surrendered wanting nothing more then Christ. Wanting HIS Ways to be what I followed. My spiritual birth became a reality, and I followed my heart to be baptized of water fully submerged. I now look to never sin again, and the ability to stand still and hear my heart of love in Christ. Christ dwells in me, and it is a spiritual world of love. My once to die was my suffered/yielded choice in baptism because our LORD is of the living. I wait for the coming of the LORD
(Hebrews 9: 27-28 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.)
********

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

So the Holy Spirit speaks out and says I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, eh?
I also doubt that.

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The very act of baptism is the Spirit + Water + Blood = ONE

( 1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth)
( I John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

The Holy Spirit abides with those who are baptized properly.

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You are saying that the Holy Spirit (puts up with/abides) what man's hands and mouth say and do?

I believe it is a command from Christ that said go baptisming. It is the pastors and priests who abide in what Christ commanded.

The Holy Spirit was given unto the Gentiles by God, and Peter then abided by the command of Christ to say they would be baptized of water. (Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? ) NO we can't forbid it because Christ commanded it.. We must abide by what Christ did and said.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

sndbay,
The point I was trying to make is that God sometimes uses His followers to do God's work.
Men are commanded to do the ceremony of baptizing and thus the Spirit and water are also involved.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
The point I was trying to make is that God sometimes uses His followers to do God's work.
Men are commanded to do the ceremony of baptizing and thus the Spirit and water are also involved.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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The laying of hands is what you are speaking of as it is a gift given to those chosen by God

Act 19:5-6 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Remember this too, because Peter told how wrong the heart could be to think otherwise.
Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul


The laying of hands is truely a gift of God, coming from God. It can not be purchsed or gained by any other source then the power of God. Peter told of this in (Act 8:19-21)And all having a gift from God should not neglect to use the gift. (1 Timothy 4:13-16)

However none can take this honour and attribute it to themselves, because as (Act 19:11) said God wrought special miracles by the hands of those chosen.

Hebrews 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

Christ showed us this to be true, because He too was the begotten Son of God

Hebrews 5:5-6 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

So look at it like this.. Your Father sends you something special, and HE gives it to UPS to hand it to you. (Who do you thank and give great appreciation to for giving you this special package?)

~in Christ

sndbay,
No I was not speaking of the laying on of hands.
I was speaking of the person who performs the baptism ceremony as John the Baptizer did.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, John the Baptist is known as a great prophet.

Like Paul has written in (Galatians 2:8), whether the apostleship for Peter or himself, it is God that wrought effectually in them both.
The same would be true in John the Baptist as the great prophet. And the same would be true of every one, evangelists, pastors and teachers. (Eph 4:11-14)

Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of HIS power

1 Peter 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

However none can take this honour and then attribute it to themselves, because as (Act 19:11) said, God wrought special miracles by the hands of those chosen. Those good stewards are the servants honoured to do what God has spoken and what God has given to them, to hand to us.

EPH 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

EPH 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

EPH 4:11-13 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ


Fred, if you believe something different, then please tell me where it is written and what the difference is?



Love
`in Christ

I don't get it? We are given a picture of a PHYSICAL baptism. John baptized JESUS CHRIST... physically. When the Lord Jesus commanded us to baptize one another... he meant physically. Therefore it takes another human being to baptize another. I mean to make this something else.. I don't understand?? NO PERSON can baptize themselves. It just isn't possible. It isn't BIBLICAL!! You can walk into a body of water and go under, but I suggest you are simply SWIMMING. Or taking a bath!! It isn't a biblical baptism accoording to the Bible.

Baptism is done this way so that OTHERS can witness your confession of what Christ did on the cross and that you WANT to die to self and live for him. It is a physical and Outward expression of a inward change that has ALREADY taken place. BEFORE the baptism!!

Eph 1:11-14 tells us... we hear the gospel, we believe the gospel and then we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit. BAPTISM is NOT a requirement. To ADD baptism is ADDING something to Paul's Gospel and we are warned AGAINST such a thing in Galatians. CHRIST FINISHED THE WORK... It is DONE... all there is left is accepting his WORK as enough. It is ENOUGH for me.

my my how we complicate the Gospel and take verses out of context, misunderstand who is writing, why it was written and who it is directly written too! GUYS... it is called rightly dividing the word of truth.

ClassyT, Who reveals unto us the wisdom of truth? Who permits some to see, and some to be blind?

Eph 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

SO That: the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him (Eph 1:17)





ClassyT who is HIS glory? Who first trusted in Christ?

That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (It says sealed with That holy Spirit of Promise!)

(Which is?)
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

ClassyT, How are we begotten again rather then begotten of man by flesh?

The seal of God in our forehead is the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!!! who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

Heavenly places is the spiritual realm of heaven.So that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

How can you be holy without being born again, (or) known as begotten again in Christ?

You must die with Christ on the cross, buried with Christ, in baptism!!



So that we can once die, and then be born again. Begotten again in Christ Jesus. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.


~child of God

sndbay,
I KNOW THAT!!
So what! John the Baptizer, a man, baptized Jesus.
It takes another person to perform the physical ceremony of baptism of one is to be performed; always did, and always will be.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
I KNOW THAT!!!
So what! John the Baptizer, a man, baptized Jesus.
It takes another person to perform the physical ceremony of baptism of one is to be performed; always did, and always will be.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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That is saying they are baptized in the name of John.

1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

It is exactly why Paul chose not to baptize but a few, because people might say it was Paul who baptized them.( 1 Corinthians 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. )


Matthew 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.


Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

sndbay, NO!
Thaey are baptized my a person in the name of the Father, So, and Holy Sprit if done properly as Jesus instructed.
You know that I think.
Peace and kindness,
Fred