It's not a bad translation at all. I think the problem you're having is in the narrative of Job. Job isn't talking at all. Let's take a look at the verse, “Call now, if there be any that will answer thee, and turn to some of the saints.” (Job 5:1 - Douay-Rheims)Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
In the previous chapter Eliphas is mocking and, in a roundabout way, accuses Job of some impropriety, after all God doesn't punish the innocent; right? Don't those who hold the once-saved-always-saved doctrine believe that God never inflects suffering on the innocent? Eliphas continues mocking Job, by saying try and call; see who answers you. Contemptuously Eliphas asks to see which of the saints he will turn to for comfort since none seem to answer.
And why not mock Job? I'd answer that we are sometimes asked to suffer along with Christ in His name. And Job does so patiently, steadfast to his trust in God.
In an attempt to make Job confess his sins, Eliphas reminds him that only a fool would be so obstinate. So, as here, we have the fool calling those suffering innocently, a fool. Who, turns out to be the bigger fool in the end of the story of Job?
But, just to make sure we haven't infected our Catholic understanding on verse 1 of Job let's look at how some of the other translations render the same verse; especially now that we understand the narrative.
Job 5:1Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn? (King James Version)
[OH no! it's in the KJV version. Those rascally Catholics must've snuck that in there too! No doubt it's a Catholic plot – let's look at the NIV]
Job 5:1 "Call if you will, but who will answer you? To which of the holy ones will you turn? (New International Version )
[Good? - no saints here. But, who are the 'holy ones'?]
Job 5:1"Call now, is there anyone who will answer you? And to which of the holy ones will you turn? New (American Standard Bible (NASB)
[Opps we got holy ones here too. 'Holy ones' could be saints? See Job 15:15 – but then we must recognize this translation renders the same way – 'pray to the saints'. ]
Job 5: 1 Eliphaz continued, "Call out if you want to, Job. But who will answer you? Which one of the holy angels will you turn to? (New International Reader's Version )
[The NIVRV only changes saints to 'holy angels' nothing new here except that still generally conforms to Catholic understanding of the verse.]
Job 5: 1 "Call if you will, but who will answer you? To which of the holy ones will you turn? (Today's New International Version)
[TNIV version is more of the same, but, the punctuation seems helpful – at least, it does if you like the Catholic rendition of this verse]
But, let's continue to see if we can find more scriptural evidence to praying or supplicating to the saints; we have Jacob who after fighting an Angel prays to him. "Jacob prevailed over the Angel, and wept and made supplication to him." (Hosea 12: 4). Furthermore we see that Paul teaches to 'communicate' with the saints.
Rom 12:11-13 In carefulness not slothful. In spirit fervent. Serving the Lord. Rejoicing in hope. Patient in tribulation. Instant in prayer. Communicating to the necessities of the saints. Pursuing hospitality.
Not just an offhanded prayer, but prayers that are 'reverent', 'hopeful', 'patient', that is “He does not say, Bestow upon, but share with the necessity of the saints, to show that they receive more than they give, that it is a matter of merchandise, because it is a community. Do you bring in money? They bring you in boldness toward God. Given to (Gr. pursuing) hospitality. He does not say doing it, but given to it, so to instruct us not to wait for those that shall ask it, and see when they will come to us, but to run to them, and be given to finding them.” (St. Chrysostom, Homily 21)
Then of course we have Paul again who sends his three deacons to the Corinthians who minister to the saints. Paul turns his conversation in Chapter 16 to the “collections that are made for the saints.” How would such a verse be rendered with regard to praying to the saints?
And I beseech you, brethren, you know the house of Stephanas, and of Fortunatus, and of Achaicus, that they are the firstfruits of Achaia, and have dedicated themselves to the ministry of the saints: (1 Cor 16:15 ) “And that they flourished in good works also, he declares by what follows, saying, They have set themselves to minister unto the saints.” (St. St. Chrysostom, Homily 44)
JoeT
