Originally Posted by
JoeT777
The argument isn’t whether or not there will be a great tribulation, but rather when those living in that day will be brought into the Kingdom of God; whether they will be taken out of the world to, as it were, escape the tribulation. Galveston1’s reference to 1 Thes 4:15-18, in my opinion, and in the opinion of the Catholic Church is a forced interpretation.
Anyone passage in scripture must be in harmony with other passages; otherwise the author(s) would be contradicting themselves. This is not a good thing in scripture as it would produce varying different faiths; but we’re called to one faith (Cf. John 17:20-26).
This particular problem arises in the first book of Thessalonians if we hold that the living in Christ will be “raptured” out of the world to avoid the tribulation. The contradiction is that this scripture requires “the dead in Christ shall rise first.” Other scriptures call for the dead in Christ to rise only on the last day. To be raised first we hear Christ’s words, “Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all that he hath given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day.” And, you must be of Christ. Which we hear Christ pulling us into his Kingdom, “He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.” (John 6:55) So, we see that the living don’t catch up with Christ until after (or at least at the same time) as the dead on the last day when Christ comes to re-claim his Kingdom?
Why are you having so much trouble understandng that the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the changing of the living believers occurs in immediate sequence? And we have been in the "last days" ever since the time of Christ.
In Revelations 20 a spiritual battle takes place where satan is bound for a long time, during which only the “beheaded martyrs” (priests of God and Christ) are risen to minister to God in heaven. After satan is released for a short time, then the dead in Christ are risen. Then and only then the Kingdom of God is re-established on earth and living in Christ go out to meet Christ.
After satan is loosed for a short time (after 1,000 yrs of confinement) the only resurrection mentioned is that of the WICKED dead, not the righteous.
The concept of a pre-tribulation can be traced to John Darby in 1830. For some 1800-years prior to this the concept was unknown. Darby suggests that there will be “rapture” prior to the time of tribulation, later picked up by Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye. He based this on his observance of Margaret MacDonald, a 14-year old, in a levitation séance in 1830. (Cf. Dave MacPherson, The Rapture Plot) This is not a conditions I would call conducive to a revelation by the Holy Spirit.
I'm not convinced of MacPherson's objectivity. What I have heard about Margaret MacDonald is that she gave a message either in "tongues" with interpretation, or a word of prophecy, both gifts named by Paul in 1 Cor. ch 12.
As Fred has stated, multiple times, we will never know the time or place of his coming, "but of that day and hour no one knoweth: no, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone." (Matt 24:36)
JoeT
