[
Number one, when we have a personal relationship with our God, we do not want to play fast and loose with sin. We don't expect to have a license to sin, because when you have love, respect and honor for God , you wouldn't want to displease him. For someone who truly wants to please God, it's not all about just doing what is necessary to get to heaven. It is about just living to please for the sake of living to please. When a threat of hell is your motivation, doesn't it color the sincerity?



This I do believe. "Die to myself and live to please him" means to separate yourself from your ego, leave it behind and live in the "I am" which is the inner Christ in us Living in the flesh is living in the egoic part of us. The ego/flesh will lead you astray.[/QUOTE]

Cozyk,

Hmmm? Who is playing fast and loose with sin? Of course I want to please HIM! When you love someone and they just forgave you of something you could NEVER EVER pay for, you tend to get pretty Loyal. On top of the fact He puts his very own spirit to live within me. I can't earn my way to heaven and I never could. As far as motivation? I am assuming you mean BEFORE salvation. Well, I came to the Lord Jesus around 4 years old because I didn't want to go to hell and I KNEW I was a sinner and needed help. Some people come to the Lord because they get right away the LOVE of Christ and their need, some are on their death bed or sick, or have a family member sick... does any of those things mean they aren't sincere? Who comes to the Lord without a need or a motive? LOL who? NO ONE. You MUST recognize your condition as being lost and unable to do it yourself and in need of a savior. Oh YES I had motive but it didn't make me insincere.

It takes the Holy Spirit to understand the word of God. It isn't a book that one can pick up and read and get just like that. However there really is no wiggle room for error. If the God of the Universe can MAKE something out of nothing, I'm not too concerned about him being able to maintain and preserve accuracy in His word. The bible fits together like a big puzzle with the main thread from Genesis it is ALL about Jesus and it takes the Holy Spirit to open the mind and heart to understand it.

Coyz

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hmmm? Who is playing fast and loose with sin? Of course I want to please HIM! When you love someone and they just forgave you of something you could NEVER EVER pay for, you tend to get pretty Loyal. On top of the fact He puts his very own spirit to live within me.

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We so agree on this.

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I can't earn my way to heaven and I never could. As far as motivation? I am assuming you mean BEFORE salvation. Well, I came to the Lord Jesus around 4 years old because I didn't want to go to hell

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That is not my motivation. I don't even believe there is a hell. At least not the place of torture you hear about growing up in a baptist church.

Cozy,

I haven't met one person that I want to go to hell. Not even my enemies. Or people that give me reddies. Ha I don't WANT to believe in hell but the Lord Jesus spoke about it the most and it is in the bible and there just is no way around it... like it or not. But I don't suppose I'm going to convince you...

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Originally Posted by classyT

Cozy,

I haven't met one person that I want to go to hell. Not even my enemies. or people that give me reddies. ha I don't WANT to believe in hell but the Lord Jesus spoke about it the most and it is in the bible and there just is no way around it...like it or not. But i don't suppose I'm gonna convince you...

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Not as long as you use something as "shakey" as the bible to get your facts.

I hope that you always have a smile on your face. I mean no harm by writing my believes and try to show a different ideas.. Thank you for understanding..
Now.. I would ask you to read one page, But , you have to read and try to keep everything out of the way, Just for one hour, and see if you can see it the same way..
Thank you again.
John : 15 /1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25,26,27..
In John 15:10 you will find "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love.
and
In John 15/16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit. And
In John 15/22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now,, they have no excuse for their sin.

Dear friend... Please understand that I'm not trying to prove you wrong.. I understand your point view.. But to believe in Him, means allot more that saying it.. It means not to do wrong.. not to sin and have a thought of being saved because the salvation is not just talk.. It's also work.. That is the only thing I want others to see.
I'm sorry if I said or showed anything other than love and respect.. I will pull myself out of this conversation..
Peace..
Sam

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Originally Posted by samdarwen

I hope that you always have a smile on your face. I mean no harm by writing my believes and try to show a different ideas.. Thank you for understanding..
Now.. I would ask you to read one page,, But , you have to read and try to keep everything out of the way,, Just for one hour, and see if you can see it the same way..
Thank you again.
John : 15 /1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25,26,27..
In John 15:10 you will find "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love.
and
In John 15/16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit. and
In John 15/22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now,,, they have no excuse for their sin.

Dear friend... Please understand that I'm not trying to prove you wrong.. I understand your point view.. But to believe in Him, means allot more that saying it.. It means not to do wrong.. not to sin and have a thought of being saved because the salvation is not just talk.. It's also work.. That is the only thing I want others to see.
I'm sorry if I said or showed anything other than love and respect .. I will pull myself out of this conversation..
Peace..
Sam

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Now samuel, sammy, sammyboy ( or could it be Samantha?)

Anyway, now why in the world wouldn't I have a smile on my face. I am saved and headed for heaven. In ephesians I am already positioned sitting in heavenly places. That is something to smile about!! Don't ja think?

course YOU on the other hand must always be worried... did you have a wrong thought? Were your motives pure?? Was the Lord pleased with you? Or how about sins you didn't KNOW were... hmmmm? We have a flesh and it does get in the way even when we think it is in check. Or wait?? Does the blood of Jesus only cover ignorance when you sin after you are saved and you don't know you do? Or you forgot you did? I'd like a verse for that if you can find one. And my friend, care to give me the verse that says the Holy Spirit gets fed up and leaves you? Because I keep looking and my Bible says I'm SEALED with the Holy Spirit of Promise and the Lord Jesus himself will never leave me or forsake me. When the bible uses the word ALL and NEVER I stand up and take notice! Nope, I have a big smile on myself, and elephant of sin off my chest, and GOOD NEWS on my lips! This is the day the Lord has made let us be Glad and rejoice in it!! :)

NOTE: I do NOT believe that I can continue to get away with sinning!! That is not my point and the Lord will and HAS dealt with me. I am saying that all of my sins, past, present and future are covered under the blood and my salvation is secure. When Noah was put on the ark and the door was shut ( the ark is such a picture of Jesus)... he was safe and secure... Noah himself couldn't open the door. Jesus put it best... IT IS FINISHED! What a savior.

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Originally Posted by arcura

samdarwen,
I agree with you about your attitude concerning ClassyT.

Fred

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Fred,

Just sos you know... I SAW that. Ha :p ;)

Good for you dear..
Like I said.. I didn't mean to disrespect or try to make this chit chat go this far.
You are intitle to believe whatever you want to believe, That what makes us mankind.
I truly wanted to share some knowledge I earned by reading g and studying.. I understand your point view and I respect it... So please try to have the same spirit..
Thank you any way..

By the way.. I'm not Samantha, nor Samuel.. my user name is also my email.. just add the hotmail to it... And I'm from a walking distance from the Church of the Nativity, where Jesus was born about two thousand year ago.. And I do like to change this argument to be more privet, because I believe it will effect other people in a negative way.. So if you wish to talk about it any more, You are more than welcome to email me..
Peace
Sam

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Originally Posted by samdarwen

Good for you dear..
Like I said.. I didn't mean to disrespect or try to make this chit chat go this far.
You are intitle to believe whatever you want to believe, That what makes us mankind.
I truly wanted to share some knowledge I earned by reading g and studying.. I understand your point view and I respect it... So please try to have the same spirit..
Thank you any way..

By the way.. I'm not Samantha, nor Samuel.. my user name is also my email.. just add the hotmail to it... And I'm from a walking distance from the Church of the Nativity, where Jesus was born about two thousand year ago.. And I do like to change this argument to be more privet, because I believe it will effect other people in a negative way.. So if you wish to talk about it any more,, You are more than welcome to email me..
Peace
Sam

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Well, I was just debating it a bit with you. I suppose I should save my discussions and debates for the religious discussion board. Sorry.

I wanted to share my knowledge with you.. I got mine the same as you did, reading and studying AND I am not going to eat you up for having a different view point and I hope I am respectful but I won't concede when you are dead wrong. :D ( was that respectful? Lol don't take me so serious) you can tolerate me better that way.

Thank you dear.. You have a great spirit...
Like I said before; I mean no harm.. All what I mean is, If we really need to answer a question for some one indeed needs some answers, let's just answer them the way we think it's right.. As I said before; you do things the way you feel it serves you, and I will do mine.. I don't claim to know.. I'm just an average Joe.. But when I was researching for my post, this stuff took a lots of my time to understand.. And when I heard some one asking if they will be judged on the JUDGMENT DAY.. I thought, Hum.. They call it Judgment day for a good reason, and yes, we all have sins, I do and I speak for myself, and I know that if I didn't change, and kept on doing wrong, and not think of having the Lord's word delivered, then I have shared in the sin.. We as some one who believe some way or another.. Do have a duty, a duty for those in need for it.. All what I want is to help some one, and the last thing I want or need, is to try to prove stuff to some one who is not even willing to read.. And believe me, we didn't get the knowledge the same way.. I been through times that forced me to look and study, and see things I never believed it was there.. I use to believe the same way as yourself.. But things changes..
I have no wants in any way, to keep running this thing and know that we are not going no were.. I think you are here for the same reason as I'm.. You want to help some one, because that is a part of commandments that the Lord Himself asked us to deliver..
Peace
Sam

cozyk disagrees: I think it's your smugness that's condescending
Cozyk,

Well when I am replying to YOU I will remember that. Thanks for the tip.

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Originally Posted by cozyk

Not as long as you use something as "shakey" as the bible to get your facts.

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Shakey huh? I believe it is absolute truth. And by the way... my mind is WIDE open! But when it comes to TRUTH and the word of God... it is shut. I believe God he is smarter than me.

I don't understand how it works otherwise cozyk. What? Do you get to pick what you believe in the bible? How does that work anyway?? Inquiring" narrow minded thinkers" want to know.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Grommit , De Maria, Sam,

This is a direct quote from the word of God. My sins and inquities will be remembered NO MORE.

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I can't find it. Will you post the reference.

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I will NEVER stand before the Lord Jesus and give an acccount for my SINS. I will give an account of my life after salvation. The bible is clear on this subject.

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Yes, the Bible is clear. This is what St. Paul says to believers:

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

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I still do sin but like John says... If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We have no license to continue on in sin and the Lord will SURELY deal with us if we do.

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... if we confess...

Then you understand that you must repent of sin. Good.

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I kind of smile in amazement at people that actually think they have to WORK their way to heaven AFTER they accept the Lord Jesus as their savior.

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I kind of smile in amazement when I meet people who realize that Jesus died for our sins and yet claim they don't have to do anything. Don't you realize that anything worthwhile is worth working for? Don't you believe that Salvation, being united to God for all eternity, is worthwhile?

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

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ANYTHING that I may do right, good and pleasing to the Lord... is only because of HIM.

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No one denies that. What we deny is the claim that anyone who refuses to walk in the works which God has prepared for them from all eternity will go to heaven.

That would be disobedience. Refer to Heb 5:9 above.

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ALL of my righteousness is as a filthy rag to him. ( did you read that?. ALL!! )

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Does that mean that you will now refuse to do what is righteous? This is why even our works are God's gift. Because although our works are dirty rags, He rewards us for them.

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I couldn't be good enough before or AFTER salvation. He redeemed me. He bought me, He cleansed me. It is all about HIM and HIS work.

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Which He accomplishes through me. We are His hands, feet, mouth, eyes. It is through us that Christ works. That is why we are called His Body.

So, if you, a member of Christ's body, refuse to work, you will be cut off:

John 15 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

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My job is to die to myself and Live to please him... unfortunately with my flesh... I fail. And YET HIS promise to me is simple... I will NEVER ( catch that word?) NEVER leave you or forsake you. If we can't believe Jesus at His word... we are in trouble.

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Have you not read in Scripture, BY FAITH HE...

Heb 11
4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,

7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house;

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

It is because we have faith in God that we work in obedience to His Word.

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

It is lack of faith which leads us not to work. And without faith, we are condemned, because without faith, we can't please God:

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Do you not know that our works perfect our faith:
James 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

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John also says in his epistle... The blood of Jesus Christ, HIS SON, cleanses us from ALL sin. Funny, I always thought ALL meant ALL. Go figure?

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It doesn't always.

If you say, "I invited all to my party." Did you really invite all? No, you invited all that you knew or all your friends.

In the same way, Jesus Christ cleanses us from all "repented" sin. But if there are any unrepented sins, they will not be cleansed until you repent of them completely. And repentance is more than giving lip service. Repentance is repayment.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

It is doing you best to make things right again. Simply saying, "I'm sorry I busted your window." Is not enough. Not in this world and not in the world to come.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by cozyk

Not as long as you use something as "shakey" as the bible to get your facts.

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1. In what sense is the Bible shakey?
2. Are you a Christian who doesn't believe in the Bible?
3. If you aren't a Christian, why are you responding to questions about Christianity? Is there some reason why you don't believe this person is expecting a Christian response?

classyT,
As I understand it from what Jesus and the apostles say, only after we are sorry for our sins, confess that we are sinners and ask for forgiveness are our sins forgiven, washed away.
Since most of us sin often that means we must not assume that doing that one time is enough.
We must do so continually and forgive others who sin against us or our sins will not be forgiven.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by classyT

Shakey huh? I believe it is absolute truth. And by the way... my mind is WIDE open! But when it comes to TRUTH and the word of God... it is shut. I believe God he is smarter than me.

I don't understand how it works otherwise cozyk. What? Do you get to pick what you believe in the bible? How does that work anyway?? Inquiring" narrow minded thinkers" want to know.

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We all know what you believe and why you believe it.

• "It's God's word"
• "It's in the bible"
• "The bible is absolutely literally truth"
• "There is only one TRUTH"
• Your way equals the fundamentalist christian way equals the only way.

Your mind is closed shut to any other ways, possibilities, or variables.
It's fine to whole heartedly believe what we do. But to insist that what we believe is the only way to believe is what is narrow minded.

I noticed that most every opinion you have is based off scripture. Even down to you being 4 yrs. Old and accepting Christ as your savior. "A child shall lead them". It makes me wonder if you are just following the rules or if you actually have intuitive feelings. Thoughts or beliefs that come to you from your gut. An internal dialogue with God that speaks to you. A deeper place than just what you read and choose to accept as 100% factual.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

1. In what sense is the Bible shakey?
2. Are you a Christian who doesn't believe in the Bible?
3. If you aren't a Christian, why are you responding to questions about Christianity? Is there some reason why you don't believe this person is expecting a Christian response?

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I have been a christian all my life, but as the years progressed I constantly was faced with christian beliefs that made me want to say... "HOLD THE BUS! "Don't speak for me as an organization and proclaim what I as a christian HAVE to believe about this or that because I don't."

I don't want to be called a christian if it means I have to just shut up and accept. Accept anything the bible or christian leaders tell me when it does not resonate as truth with my heart, brain, conscience, soul, and gut. That is where my truth lies. I don't think people give their internal voices enough credit. I think I would call myself a free thinker with an excess amount of christian baggage.

About the bible being shaky. I and many others have spoken about the many translations, interpretations, it's adherence to the times in which it was written, and other factors that could contribute to it's huge room for error. Not only do I not understand how people can't see that, I don't know how they don't take it as a strong probability.

cozyk ,
I believe the bible because I believe God has preserved His word therein.
Yes, there are several different versions with some differences, but the latest accepted versions are the best and most accurate, this I know and believe.
I believe that God is faithful, Therefore so is His word.
So I must do as best I can to be fathful to it.
That is why I accept the bible and what it says.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Dear...
I understand your point view, and I see what is it you have in your bag.. Any one who choose to read and learn, will need answers, and when answers become the source of confused, it become harder to believe..
I did read and study the Bible, and most of it was using the Aramaic.. I believe that you are right about the way people translated the Bible to a different languages and too many believes.. But the main idea of any believe is FAITH.. And I think you have it, and because you have it, you are looking for the truth.. I will ask you to go ahead with your looking, and I hope that you will find it somewhere and understand it.. Because for most of us.. Some shadowed areas are still not easy to understand.. So I will say to you, God bless you, and good luck with your search. By the way.. I don't mean to make it sound a big thing, but if you please not use the word shaky when talking about the Bible? Some of us will not understand what you mean and will take it the wrong way... Like I said, I see your point view and I understand your looking for the truth... God bless you
Peace
Sam

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Originally Posted by cozyk

We all know what you believe and why you believe it.

• "It's God's word"
• "It's in the bible"
• "The bible is absolutely literally truth"
• "There is only one TRUTH"
• Your way equals the fundamentalist christian way equals the only way.

Your mind is closed shut to any other ways, possibilities, or variables.
It's fine to whole heartedly believe what we do. But to insist that what we believe is the only way to believe is what is narrow minded.

I noticed that most every opinion you have is based off of scripture. Even down to you being 4 yrs. old and accepting Christ as your savior. "A child shall lead them". It makes me wonder if you are just following the rules or if you actually have intuitive feelings. Thoughts or beliefs that come to you from your gut. An internal dialogue with God that speaks to you. A deeper place than just what you read and choose to accept as 100% factual.

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Cozyk,

I may have accepted the Lord young but I do NOT view Christianity as rules or even as a religion. It is for me a relationship with my savior. He knows me, he loves me in spite of me and he accepts me. My personalty is such that I could never just take what someone throws my way and gobble it up because they said so. I'm surprised you would think so. I don't think ANYTHING I have posted would suggest I would. When you have a personal relationship with the God of the universe it is an exciting thing. So, doubt no more.

The Lord Jesus said he was the way, the truth and the life... if my mind is closed to "other ways" than it is because I believe what Jesus said. AND I might add... what a wonderful compliment for you to say that most every opinion I have is based of scripture. Thank you very much. I hope so. His word is TRUTH. And when the Lord speaks to me through that internal dialogue you spoke of... He NEVER says things contrary to the word. The Lord places his word above his name!! WOW that is HUGE. Being a Christ follower... what else CAN I do? I know where I stand and it sure beats being a wishy washy, lukewarm, milquetoast, mush lover that picks and chooses out of the bible what is truth and what is somewhat questionable. (Hows about that for a opinion of my own.) :p I do NOT want to be caught tossed too and fro grabbing at every so called new intelligent thought that comes through the mind of a mere man. I believe God. Call me what you want. I know whom I believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep what I have committed unto him until that day!