Ask Me Help Desk - Purgatory - just how long is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Maria,

Are you aware that in translating words from one language to another, there is some loss in the connotation of the word? And yes, in English, prison means prison, and yes, the Greek word can mean prison when read in that context. But the Greek word carries a wider meaning which you appear to wish to ignore.

I thought you had turned over a new leaf and were going to begin answering the questions asked of you.

Here it is again:

I asked (message #459):

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I consider a place of confinement a jail. Apparently you want to put a different spin on it than the actual people who actually know the language and what it means.
[i]1 Peter 3:18-20 (New International Version)
19through whomalso he went and preached to the spirits in prison

KJV
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Literally everyone interprets it "prison", except you.

What makes you a greater authority than they?

Please answer the question. The interpreters who translated the Greek to English in the NIV and the KJV say that word means "prison" when taking into account the Greek context. What makes you a greater authority than they?

Sincerely,

De Maria

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

I thought you had turned over a new leaf and were going to begin answering the questions asked of you.

Here it is again:

I asked (message #459):

Please answer the question. The interpreters who translated the Greek to English in the NIV and the KJV say that word means "prison" when taking into account the Greek context. What makes you a greater authority than they?

Sincerely,

De Maria

YOU BOTH ARE MAKING THE SAME ARGUMENT! Just saying it diffrently he said it means prison you say it means prison God never meant us to argue the exactsame point you both agree that it means prison so we have all had enough of this please. And you need not know somones age(whether or not you asked) or there education this does not effect how the Holy Spirit brings us to a realization of what his word means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilmkiss

didnt we already talk about this read post 511 on page 52

I appreciate pointing that out, but it doesn’t settle the matter. There is a requitable element to any gift given. Accepting God’s love holds an obligation of returning that love with obedience.

JoeT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Maria,

I cannot keep doing all your work for you. You eventually have to do some of your own. As we have stated before, hades is hell. And it is across a gulf from Abraham's Bosom (not the same place).

Oh suddenly you don't want to use a lexicon.

Let me enlighten you:

Hadēs

1) name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions

2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead

3) later use of this word: the grave, death, hell
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

The realm of the dead. That description seems to jive quite well with Purgatory. Much better than with the place of eternal damnation. N wonder you lost your lexicon when asked what "hades" means in Greek.

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Ah, now you add your own private interpretation into it. There is no purgatory, nor anything that looks like purgatory here. That is the problem that you are and have been facing from the start.

I beg to differ. The one facing the problem is you as I have proven above.

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Not anymore.. that appears to be one of the points that you are missing. The other is that scripture has no description of purgatory here or anywhere else.

It seems to be quite clearly described here.

1. Note that the rich man is praying to Father Abraham, both for himself and for his brothers.
2. Note that the rich man is suffering in flames.

Therefore, it seems quite clearly to describe the condition of a soul, which it not in eternal damnation and not in heaven. The only option is Purgatory. Which you deny in spite of the Scriptural evidence.

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Maria,

I told you before, and you agreed with my approach - when your posts get to be too long, I pick what I think are the key points and respond to them.

Oh, that's fine. But I'm not complaining about your shortening the messages but about your ignoring pertinent questions. There's a difference.

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To come back now and get nasty about that is at best inappropriate.

Now, I am under absolutely no obligation to play 20 questions with you.

You're under no obligation to answer any questions, I agree. We are under no obligation to even speak to each other.

However, when you dodge pertinent questions, I will make sure to highlight what you've done.

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You are a grown woman -

You've probably forgotten. I've corrected you before. I'm a man. No harm taken.

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do your own work, argue your own points, and don't get nasty because someone doesn't do all your work for you.

I do quite well at all those things. I think you're getting upset because you have lost credibility.

First, you twist Cardinal Newman's words.
Then, you underhandedly claim that the Catholic Church is mentioned in Rev 17.
Then, you don't know the difference between the keys to heaven and the keys to hell.
All the while dodging pertinent questions and using the excuse that you are shortening the messages. Ruuuiiiiight.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeT777

I appreciate pointing that out, but it doesn’t settle the matter. There is a requitable element to any gift given. Accepting God’s love holds an obligation of returning that love with obedience.

JoeT

Grandma gives you a gift, a birthday present, free, no strings, doesn't dangle it in front of you and demand a payback. You tell her thank you and mow the lawn for her out of love.

Same with God and you. He sent His Son to die on the cross--free, a gift, no strings. You tell Him thank you and then do your best to treat others with the same kind of unconditional love.

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Originally Posted by Lilmkiss

understand that this said Nor in the next age that means you will not be forgiven!

That's certainly ONE way to interpret that text...

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and if you hadn't noticed I have already posted this up in earlyer posts so before you try to bring things like this up look in the prevous posts to see if they where descused!

No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Grandma gives you a gift, a birthday present, free, no strings, doesn't dangle it in front of you and demand a payback. You tell her thank you and mow the lawn for her out of love.

Same with God and you. He sent His Son to die on the cross--free, a gift, no strings. You tell Him thank you and then do your best to treat others with the same kind of unconditional love.

Thank you I could not have said it better myself :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottRC

That's certainly ONE way to interpret that text...

No thanks.

So what does the word Nor mean? As far as the dictionary is concerned means will not or can not, there for by definition in this text that a sin against the Holy Spirit is grounds for and automatic dismisal to hell, not to (a fake place called pergatory), or to heven you will not be forgiven ever and that is not one way to enterpret this scripture, it is the only way. (The Bible means what it says there are not muti meanings to the texts if it says if a man does this they are going to hell that's exactly what it means! And the definition of the english language might change but this is the context it was written in is plain and simple.)

If you want scripture to back any of this up ask me for it and I will be more then willing to get it for you.

And just because you use the NKJV or the KJV I am a student of old english texts, not just the bible but going to Shakespeare. Athough my spelling isn't alwase the best I can tell you what the definition of any old english word means!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Grandma gives you a gift, a birthday present, free, no strings, doesn't dangle it in front of you and demand a payback. You tell her thank you and mow the lawn for her out of love.

Then, half way finished, you decide to steal her lawnmower and go buy some booze... after consuming it, you think it would be funny to see how flammable grandma's house is and set it on fire.

Ooops... it turns out to be very flammable.

No worries though, grandma won't ask for the present back, and you certainly don't "owe" her anything to repair her house... right?

;)

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Originally Posted by De Maria

I thought you had turned over a new leaf and were going to begin answering the questions asked of you.

Sigh!

I had hoped that you had stopped making false accusations.

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Please answer the question.

I answer reasonable questions. I see no need to answer false accusations disguised as strawman questions.

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Originally Posted by Lilmkiss

(The Bible means what it says there are not muti meanings to the texts if it says if a man does this they are going to hell thats exactly what it means! and the definition of the english language might change but this is the context it was writen in is plain and simple.)

We'll have to disagree on this... I believe Scripture is polyvalent.

Peace be with you.

Why, let the stricken deer go weep,
The hart ungalled play;
For some must watch, while some must sleep:
So runs the world away.
Would not this, sir, and a forest of feathers-- if
The rest of my fortunes turn Turk with me--with two
Provincial roses on my razed shoes, get me a
Fellowship in a cry of players, sir?

:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottRC

I believe Scripture is polyvalent.
:D

To the point of taking things out of context?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottRC

We'll have to disagree on this... I believe Scripture is polyvalent.

Show me scripure to back this up and I will not believe you until you do so. But I agree with you if you where to add if you take one verse it can have many meanings but if you actuly take the rest of the verses along with it then it can only have one. On this point taking one verse and interperting it as something in and of itself with out the context is adding and or subtracting and through out the bible this is a shown as a unforgivable offence to the holy spirit and will not be forgiven again you want the bible verses I will have no problem procuring them for you.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I would say that is taking the point of what is being explained way out of context,

Just following in to the logical conclusion... the statment:

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Same with God and you. He sent His Son to die on the cross--free, a gift, no strings. You tell Him thank you and then do your best to treat others with the same kind of unconditional love.

... brings up the question of what happens when WE sin and how does that affect this "free, no-strings" gift mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilmkiss

show me scripure to back this up and i will not belive you untill you do so.

I couldn't care less if you believe me or not... I'm simply offering what I believe.

Because you are comparing people who accept the free gift to and with people that refuse the free gift that is the difference. That is mixing apples with oranges.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

Because you are comparing people who accept the free gift to and with people that refuse the free gift that is the difference. That is mixing apples with oranges.

Nope... the gift of salvation is free... but do our actions (specifically our sins) affect this gift?

If you don't believe it does, I'd be curious to see some Biblical support for the idea that sin has no consequence and our actions won't be judged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottRC

We'll have to disagree on this... I believe Scripture is polyvalent.

Does this mean that you think that we can interpret it any way that we want? Or just many different ways?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottRC

I could care less if you believe me or not... I'm simply offering what I believe.

Your personal private interpretation!

Exactly.

Ok, we are starting to insult and start attacking.

We are close to having to close their thread