lambsev,
Yes Jesus is the savior not the law, but Jesus tells us that we are expected to obey the law.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
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lambsev,
Yes Jesus is the savior not the law, but Jesus tells us that we are expected to obey the law.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
What makes it easier to understand the question of this thread is obedience to God, and His will being done on earth as it is in heaven.
Ask yourself what Christ did? We are told to follow His footsteps.
The royal law known in James 2:8 is "Love" and that means to love your neighbors.
So our discipline is love! Love God above all, love each other as he loved us, love your parents and family. Let that love determine how you treat one another. And in that love comes what determines how much you love God. Do you love God enough, to do as He created you to be in HIS likeness? His likeness would be not the facial appears of God, but it is the righteousness and truth that He offers us.
Adam and Eve failed to do the righteous will of God, but Christ set us free from that curse. Christ lived the righteous will of HIS Father, and we walk then in His footsteps to follow HIM..
Love is the completed circle in discipline that has been given to you as a calling of hope.
It became a decision by freewill to answer that calling. As the bread comes from the Father in revealed truth, who will answer that calling, and who will not fall asleep. Who out of love for Christ Jesus will walk as He walked? Remembering that Christ spoke, and did everything according to HIS Father in heaven. Showing complete love to HIS Father in heaven.
Can you walk as He walked? We are to be begotten again, being one with Christ as He was one with the Father.
It is written: Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his crossQuote:
Originally Posted by ActionJackson
ordinances = what is legal, proper, fitting, custom, behavior
law = body of prophetic teaching
commandments = code of wisdom, what is prohabited by the precept of God
statutes = civil enactments prescribed by God
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...-418031-7.html
Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
John 1:17
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(KJV)
You are either under Law or Grace. Not both.
Jesus did fulfill every "jot and tittle" of the law; therefore everyone who is "in" Him is counted as having done so.
Jesus incorporated the moral law into His teaching and made it binding on His followers. He allowed his disciples to violate the Sabbath, and did Himself heal sick people on that day.
On judgment day, we will stand before the bar as either under Law or Grace.
If under Law, then we will be on our own and the Law will condemn us.
If under Grace, then we are free from the curse of the Law.
Sunday became the new Sabbath in order to commemorate and celebrate Jesus' resurrection (years before Constantine showed up on the scene).Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionJackson
The Law = S.O.S. = Shows Our Sins
The Gospel = S.O.S. = Shows Our Savior
Because Jesus lived a perfect life under the Law and saved us from its condemnation, we are now free to live a life of love and service to our fellow man.
We do not do good works out of fear of the Law's punishment, but out of love for Jesus Christ and to emulate Him.
Matthew 25 --
34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'"
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is to walk in light and not in darkness.
Romans 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
~in Christ
Col 3:1-2-3
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
One death on the cross with Christ
One baptism to be buried and raise as Christ raised.
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances
If you wish to die the second death then continue to sin and eat at satan's table!
(Rev 2:11, Rev 20:6, Rev 20:14, Rev 21:8)
sndbay,
I believe that you are right that following Christ is to emulate what He did and a big part of that was obeying the ten commandments.
Thus we are expected to do so.
Also another is to forgive as Jesus demonstrated.
He also told us that if we are to be forgiven of our sins then we MUST forgive others in the same manner we want to be forgiven.
So the best way to forgive is quickly and without conditions.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
You are right Jackson.
I cannot comment on what different religions say but if the bible is anything to go by, then the 10 commandments were done away with but we are still bound by the spirit of the commandments.
If you find a commandment repeated in the new testament then we are expected to obey it.
If one is not repaeted, then it wouldhave been part of the Mosaic law that we no longer follow.
The two commandments that Jesus mentioned, actually covers the 10 commandments.
If you love your neighbour (Samaritans, neighbours were also enemies) as yourself, you would not steal from them, kill them, lie about them, disrespect them, etc etc etc.
If you love the God of the Bible, you would not mix his requirements with those of other religions, i.e. have other Gods.
So you would want to keep your worship as pure as you can, hence the first century Christians were willing to be fed to the lions rather than do anything different to what Jesus instructed them.
Yes Fred as it is written in Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
It is written: Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
And without the new nature received at the time of salvation, it is impossible to love God according to the commandment.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambsev
Therefore, since carnal, unregenerated man can NOT love God, he has broken the first commandment, and therefore all the Law.
Aren't you thankful for your new nature!:)
Yes and Amen to that!:D
2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Israel was a very young nation that didn't understand love, so at this point in their growth, God couldn't say, "Love me and love your neighbor." Israel wouldn't have known what God meant. God had to give them rules and regulations (the Ten Commandments), lots of dos and don'ts. It's like God was raising a young child who has to be told "No" because the child doesn't know how to express love; he understands only "no." Later, God felt the nation was ready for lessons on how to love, so Jesus did the teaching for those.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Newton
Wondergirl,
Yes that's true.
The 10 Commandments are a blueprint of how to live this life well and it is summed up in the 2 great Commandments.
I wish all here to have a wonderful, happy, and prosperous new year.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Let us remember Christ suffered on the cross to fulfilled scripture, He suffered baptism to fufill baptism, and Christ came not to destroy the commandments or the law but to fulfill them.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
~in Christ
Actually God did say both those things to Israel:
Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
He even said the following which is tantamount to saying "love your enemies":
Leviticus 19:34
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Lambserv,
Well said.
Fred
But like a small child, Israel had no idea what "love" meant, so had to be told item by item what should and should not be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambsev
Don't kick your brother.
Don't spit on your sister.
Don't keep tapping Mother's shoulder in order to say something.
Don't sass your father.
Would you agree that it is direction and discipline in what to love? I trust they had knowledge of love but had to direct discipline in what to love. The same holds true today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
They were told specifically what NOT to do with the hope that they would conform to that and thus learn the opposite. That is, once they had learned NO, the opposite would be YES. Don't spit on your brother would then come to mean "you love and respect your brother by being nice to him when you don't spit on him (or kick him or slap him or break his toys)" or "when you DON'T tease or force your girlfriend into having sex, you thereby show her you love and respect her."Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
No, I do not think they had knowledge of love until learning the NO part hopefully caused them to see the opposite, the YES.
If you have a child, you will understand.
According to Luke 16, the story the rich man and Lazarus, we do need the law to lead us to Christ. As children of christian parents we should and ought to have the commandments explained to us. Others like myself who are born again as adults usually have learned the law from many painful mistakes, mistakes we might have avoided by the knowledge of the 10 Commandments and even the law. Nonetheless, I wonder sometimes why we don't all "get it" that God is love just from the evidence of His craetion...
Even knowledge of the Commandments doesn't allow us to avoid making mistakes. We wake up each morning with a clean slate, and that slate becomes dirty within an hour (I'm being generous) after we get out of bed.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambsev
God's creation is full of animals killing other animals, avalanches sliding down onto helpless creatures and killing them, mudslides, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, man killing man or otherwise hurting him, car and other transportation accidents, vegetation falls and dies, weeds grow in gardens... should I go on? What's to "get"? Like the hymn "The World Is Very Evil" by Bernard of Morlas, 12th century, there's death and destruction everywhere we look.Quote:
Nonetheless, I wonder sometimes why we don't all "get it" that God is love just from the evidence of His craetion...
Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Eph 4:21-22 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
The ONE subject that the Apostle Paul dealt with in his letter to the Galatians was about Law keeping.
A careful, thoughtful reading of that letter will clear up this whole issue and give a definitive answer to the OP.
I pray we all have "good success" in this. As the Lord told Joshua:Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Joshua 1:7-9 (King James Version)
7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper withersoever thou goest.
8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.
True! And back it up by studying Romans and Hebrews. The quote from Habakkuk 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith" appears in Galatians, Romans and Hebrews!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by galveston
Amos would be much more appropriate.
"He has showed you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" Micah 6:8
Why Amos?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Deed triumphs over creed.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambsev
Creed? Or faith?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Deeds without faith are filthy rags:
Isaiah 64:6
For we have all become like one who is unclean [ceremonially, like a leper], and all our righteousness (our best deeds of rightness and justice) is like filthy rags or a polluted garment; we all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away [far from God's favor, hurrying us toward destruction].
Faith must lead, and works follow.
What's "faith" without deeds?Quote:
Originally Posted by lambsev
All I've seen here is creed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
So is what you are saying this: that this discussion is not of faith? Then it is sin according to Romans 14:23c "...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." If this is so perhaps you should refrain from the discussion.
The dictionary yielded these definitions of creed:
1 : a brief authoritative formula of religious belief
2 : a set of fundamental beliefs; also : a guiding principle
Perhaps you should define deeds for us.
Faith without deeds (works) is dead so the bible says.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Putting on the new man to follow Christ in righteousness is exampled in Luke. But before you review the parables of Luke, what we have to acknowledge is that once you have put on the new man which would be unity unto Christ, there is no double minded, or sinful nature. Everything written concerning the new creature or new man says the old passes away. That is what it meant to dead with Christ. (2 Cor 5:17 Eph 2:15 Eph 4:24 Col 3:10) Thus you leave the law or schoolmaster because the law is written in your heart (Isa 51:7), you have a good conscience toward God. Buried then in baptism able to raise as Christ did.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambsev
Reference Luke: The new!
Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
This is the old nature of man, the ones not willing to follow in righteousness. The sinful nature that does not please God. If you remain as the old man then you are a sinner Review--> (1 John 3)Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us,
Luke 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luke 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Christ set us free, we are no longer in bondage to sin. Christ is the completeness and our rest. We only need to follow HIM, and that means in HIs footsteps. This is all written and the truth sancified us.
John 17: 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Belieiving in Christ, and having the spirit to walk in righteousness, where Christ dwells in you. If one does not believe this, one does not believe in HIS worthinesss.
~behold the glory in Christ
Regardless...
We who put on Christ are still human and therefore sinful.
Not one of us is completely free from sin for we still sin.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Correct. I'm saying too often the conversation with the non-Christian is all about creed -- what does the non-Christian believe and "Believe what I believe" -- when, in fact, that should be the LEAST worry by a Christian at that point. Deed, not creed, is the important connection.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambsev
But that doesn't happen in this life. We never escape our sinfulness.Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Those that do not believe in the worthiness of HIS blood remain under the law. 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
~in Christ
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