What if the results are not positive? WHat if the results are a pregnancy? Or he breaks her heart and she realizes all she gave up for him?
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What if the results are not positive? WHat if the results are a pregnancy? Or he breaks her heart and she realizes all she gave up for him?
So, lacey, are you saying that they have had sex? I agree with your logic. If they break up it would be emotionally traumatic for her. Pregnancy is another big issue. I don't disagree with that. But, you do have to trust in the beliefs you have instilled in her. You mentioned he intends on joining the clergy. I don't know what his beliefs are but I think he probably feels just as strongly about abstinence until marriage as she does. Do you think he is not sincere in his beliefs? Do you think that he may be or have been sexually active?
Lacey, I didn't think they were having sex fully. Even still, Lacey, I really think you have to calm yourself as much as possible.
If you are having trouble trusting your daughter's judgement, then fall back on that strong faith you have, and trust that God will watch over your daughter, even when you can not.
Oh, Lacey, my heart goes out to you. I have been busy with final exams and just caught up on your post.
Dear, you are not the only old fashioned mother, I have just had to have the "talk" with my 2 oldest boys who are 19 and 20.
I am not LDS, but am highly religious, as are my children.
The hardest part for me was letting them go and letting them make their own decisions, right or wrong.
I would like to gently remind you that when you gave birth to your precious daughter, she did not come with a set of instructions. You learned through trial and error how to raise her. And what a wonderful job you did, whether you see it now or not.
Now fast forward to adulthood. Adulthood does not come with a set of instructions either. She must learn to be an adult through trial and error, as you learned to raise her much earlier.
She must learn to make decisions. She will learn what is good for her and what is not. But she cannot do this with you telling her what is right and wrong. She must experience this to learn from it. She must learn the consquences of her actions on her own, with no intervention from you otherwise she will not fully LEARN.
I do have a concern here though (or two) which I will address each separately.
1) You mention that while she was away at school her boyfriend gave her the Anti-Morman materials. Now, you do not say that she is going to a Mormon school, so I believe it safe to assume that this is a public school where there may be other outside influences other than the boyfriend. You understand that there is now a course in college called "Introduction to World Religion" where they explore ALL of the world's religions. Could it be possible that she either took this course or has had friends who had. Or had met other friends of different religions and she became curions?
2) I hear it is all about the boyfriend controlling and you trying to rein her in. Nowhere did I hear mention about her Father and his thoughts on this subject. It would be interesting to know where he stands in this push-pull that is going on in your family.
3) Like the others said, it seems as though you are borrowing trouble in that you are already considering pregnancy. Or breaks her heart.
Lacey dear, if he breaks her heart she will learn. It is all part of growing and maturing into the adult that she will oneday be. If her heart is never broken she will never be complete. I know it sounds strange but to love fully we must have been hurt.
What if she becomes pregnant? There are worse things that could happen Lacey. At least you will have a daughter to love and a grandchild to hold. However, if you keep pushing her you risk losing her. Is this what you want?
She is now of age to get married to whomever she wants whenever she wants. If you push her too much further she will figure that out on her own and she will do just that without the acceptance from anyone in the family.
Lacey, it is hard to be a mother, but to be a loving caring mother, one must know when to let our children make their own decisions in life.
SHe appears to not have any judgement right now. They have not have intercourse yet. But as I explained to her their intentions before were to not be anymore intimate than casual kissing it has advanced, so how can they be sure that it won't continue to advance? There have been many unintentional pregnancies right?
That is true, but you have to trust in the values that you instilled in her Lacey. I suspect she takes waiting until marriage very seriously.
I think J_9 made some good points. What is your husband's attitude?
Have you spoken with anyone at your Church as I suggested? Did they have any advice? What did they suggest you do?
Lacey, pregnancy occurs with intercourse, as I am sure you know already. Don't cross that bridge until you get to it. Trust me, I am in your shoes here with my 2 eldest sons, so I can relate to you.
Casual kissing has advanced, yeah, so. Not to sound crass, but you can't shield her 24/7 from every danger you perceive in life.
It is so hard with our oldest isn't it? We bring these beautiful babies in the world wanting the best for them, but when they grow they see life through rose colored glasses and we wish we could just take those glasses off.
But the reality is Lacey, we have to let them make their own decisions in life and hope and pray that what we have instilled upon them in their tender years will come to the surface when the time arises.
We are very lucky mothers that have children of this age who are still virgins. At least that is what they tell us. LOL So it shows some degree of maturation on their part to remain this way up until this point.
Our children are no longer of the age where we can make decisions for them, we must trust their judgment, good or bad, and love them nonetheless and support whatever decisions they make no matter how terribly it pains us.
Again, where does your husband stand on all that is going on? This is VERY important, and seems to have been left out.
My husband is not as emotional ( surprise) as I am but is in agreement with me. ALthough like you all he says she is love blind and their isn't much we can do about it. I as you all know have to being doing something. I don't know how not to . Right now she doesn't really care what church members think because currently the church doesn't mean anything either. She tells me the anti mormon stuff was online not given by him. He questioned her beliefs and asked for proof. SHe couldn't provide proof ( nor can he) so she felt he must be right. Or at least easiert to go along with because is her beleifs are right then that would mean she won't be marrying him. HE has made it clear that he wants no part of Mormonism. SHe does still question some of his doctrine but is sure that ours must b wrong. Her friends for the most part have been LDS at school so again I am concerned for her return to school if she shuts them out.
Lacey, what is the boyfriend's religion?
Baptist
So, the Baptist believe in our Heavenly Father also... They also believe that there is a Heaven and a Hell. The situation could be worse... She could be involved with skinheads!! :eek:
Thanks for making me smile!
Lacey, let me paint it in a different color, if you will.
Remember when she was in, say 9th grade? Remember she had homework, probably tons right? Did you do her homework for her? No, you let her learn her assignments on her own, right? Goodness, if you did her homework she would not have passed her tests.
Now, she is doing her homework for life's lessons. In life's lessons she has to learn on her own. You cannot do her homework for her otherwise she will not pass her tests.
She MUST do this all on her own otherwise you risk losing the beloved child you once cradled in your arms.
Lacey, I read that talking to clergy may help, but have you considered professional therapy? It may be beneficial to both you and your daughter.
A person once told me that I should parent in a way that when my kids are faced with a difficult decision to make, they hear my voice in the back of their heads saying, "Honey, is that such a good idea?" Hopefully a similar voice would pop into your daughter's head if she were to meet a 'hot' skinhead.
LOl a hot skinhead... ooooh baby.
Okay, so I couldn't think of anything else at the time and it just popped into my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Auttajasi
I could have said a NRGI schizophrenic, but since I have worked with them I have realized they are people too. :p
Just like her boyfriend could question things in her faith, and of course she does not know all of the anwers, and that is why you know who to call and find out more of the answers.
Most members of a church group does not understand all of their church rules or their churches beleifs, and I am sure that there are people in every denomination that may question a few beleifs. That does not mean they can't be members. And to be honest it is sometimes good to question your faith some, it makes you research into it and it makes you understand your beliefs better.
And please be specific, now, just being bald is not a "skin head" (barber challenged)
Ok you might not believe it but I actually work in mental health. Maybe that makes some of you smile or cry> No I didn't do her homework but I did check the planner to make sure it was done. A zero isn't the same as this though. In my mind these decisions will change the rest of her life.
I have encourged her to study for herself but it as if she doesn't want to. SHe is content with not knowing what she believes.
And so as well would her homework if not done properly in school. If not done properly, she would NOT be in college, but she got there herself. By her own hand, of her own accord. Now you need to let her get to adulthood the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacey5765
You work in mental health. What is your profession? Are you a secretary? Nurse? Psychologist? Psychiatrist?
It has become quite apparent that maybe you need to work on you rather than working on your daughter.
Lacey, you have 4 kidlets right? So do I. Mine range in age from 20, 19, 13, and 5. The difficulties you are having right now with your 19 year old will be different than the ones you will experience with your youngest. Do you know why? Because you will have already gone through the "instruction book" by the time your youngest is 19. You are giving you smart, wonderful, beautiful daughter HE1L right now, and believe me dear, she will remember it when your youngest is going through the same thing, and she will resent you for it. You will lose your daughter if you continue on this path.
I am a case manager/social worker dealing with children and adolescents and work closely with several therapist. Maybe I take my lunch with one of them LOL
So, you see the children/adolescents that are mentally ill, not the ones that are well rounded, educated and emotionally healthy.
Lacey, maybe your job is taking a toll on you. You seem to be trying to control your girl the way you control your cases.
You need to let your beautiful, for now emotionally happy daughter, spread her wings and fly. Let her make her mistakes and come crying back to you when she does. Have an open heart and open arms when she does.
Don't criticise or punish, just love and admire the wonderful person you created. She has her own mind and her own thoughts. You cannot control that, and if you do, you risk more torment that you are already experiencing.
Lacey, take a vacation, a vacation with you and your husband. Talk things over. Maybe let him take over for a while. All we see is you, you you... Not good my dear girl.
I'll let you in on something personal. Well actually the world can see it now, but this is what you risk.
I was raised in a very religious family, my parents sent me to a private school where I was expected to attend church 5 days a week during school... classes on Saturday and church on Sunday. This went on my entire childhood. Ughh, prayers morning day and night. Praying over this decision or that decision...
Fast forward to age 19 (just like your daughter I was 19 once too). I found the man of my dreams... My parents did not like him... I was too young... I needed to further my education... He was not my RELIGION!!
While I love my parents, I have become to resent the restraints that they imposed upon me, our relationship is strained to this day.
My father lies in a hospital bed and will NEVER resume his activities of daily living, and I have not seen him since his hospitalization... but I still resent what they forced upon me, that they would not allow me to grow and be my own person.
Is this what you want from your daughter? Because you are going down the same road.
And did you marry him? How did it turn out? I see what y ou are saying but is so hard to watch them make mistakes and hurt. Heck I coundn't stand to see them get shots. You are right I will have to let go. She knows how I feel and I guess that is all I can do except keep praying. ( and maybe some medication to stop crying):)
Oh, dear Lacey...
Yes, I did marry him, and we had 2 beautiful boys, the oldest I mention, 19 and 20.
We did not stay married, we were only married for 7 years. But, now there is a big BUT here... I learned how to be an adult and make decisions on my own. They were very reluctant for us to marry, his parents too, and you know, that is why we did it. Because they were so controlling. We wanted to do what WE wanted, right or wrong.
Now, looking back, (he and I have discussed this as we are still friends), had our parents not been so adamant, and had they done things differently, we believe our lives would have turned out differently.
I have admitted to him, myself, and my family, that I married him because I wanted to get away from THEM. That I felt he was my only way OUT.
Sweetie, I know this is not what you want for your daughter. But you must let her make her choices, good or bad in your eyes. She has to learn. She has to be heartbroken to love unconditionally.
I did divorce my ex and am now married to my soul mate. This man has given me the world, and would give me the world again. But, sadly, I may never have met him if I did not go through the early crisis in my life with my ex. (Even longer story on how we met and why we are soulmates).
But I do not regret that decision to marry early (3 days before my 20th birthday), I see it as a stepping stone to where I am now.
If I could reach out and wipe your tears away, you know I would. If I could hug you and tell you that it will all be okay, you know I would.
Letting go of our first is the hardest thing any mother can do, but together we must do it. We will be stronger for it. So will our relationship with our children.
Now, my dear, cry... cry all you need. Pray, He will listen. Understand that He may not answer in the way that you expect, but He will answer.
As for medication, I can suggest some great ones that worked for me.;)
And just know that we are here for you. Why don't you go take a nice long bubble bath, some wine, some candles, some soft music, and cry a river. Let Him guide you to rest tonight.
My thoughts, prayers, and heart are with you.
Lacey, dear, I will be gone most of tomorrow as I have college graduations to attend, but rest assured, I will check in and help you every step of the way if you need it.
Now, also understand that sometimes you may not like what you hear, but in your career I am sure you understand that it is sometimes necessary. So, just bear with it.
I hope you had a good cry, a long bubble bath, and a nice glass of wine. Get some rest and take comfort in knowing that you are not alone.
Congratulations on graduation is it yours right? Thanks for the help
Thank you Lacey, but it is not my graduation yet. I graduate next year from college a year behind my 19 year old son. I will be attending the graduation ceremony of a friend who does not have any close family to attend with her.
First off, I would like to say that I am not a Mormon or a Catholic but I am a Christ Follower. Why are you so angry with another person? The problem is not your daughter or her boyfriend, it seems to be your anger.
My niece recently started dated a Mormon young man, who we very much admire. They are both 19 also. His parents demanded that he date a Mormon and if she wasn't then they would not accept her. So although she did not completely understand or agree, and she did ask us our opinions first. We showed her basically what the difference was between a Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, etc... She decided to join the Mormon church anyway. Which was fine with us after she had all of the information she was free to make that decision. We did not show her hate material on any religion, but we were not making her feel bad for her decisions anyway. Our love for her is unconditional. But on the other hand, the parents of the Mormon boy will not accept their son unless he is a Mormon and he is not allowed to question it. To me this is unacceptable. We need to let our adult children grow and learn to stand on their own 2 feet. What I am trying to say is that if in your mind your daughter is making a bad decision as hard as it may be can you not just let her make the decision bad or good on her own. If you shove your beliefs down her throat she may rebel even worse.
Lacey
J9 sounds like a very intelligent woman and has given you some great advice. I have a somewhat similar story in that My wife's father was dead set against us getting married... A fact which had more than a little bit to do with our getting married. Her mother told her that she was too young but since she was nineteen she could do what she wanted. I was twenty, and I realize now, too young also. All the old wags around town either said we were pregnant or it wouldn't last six months. Our first born came along almost a year and a half later. On our thirty-fifth anniversary we decided to do a renewal of vows to see if we could make it another "six months".
We too were of different faiths... She Roman Catholic... I Protestant. I converted to her faith but the Lord said different and insisted that I preach his Word. My wife could remain Roman Catholic if she wished but has chosen to follow me and support my ministry(she is an indispensable part of our church).
My wife eventually made up with her parents. Her dad (stubborn old German that he was) even forgave her for breaking his heart (he never forgave me... He finally did accept [as inevitable I guess] me). Forty-two years later the bride of my youth has become the love of my old age. What I'm trying to say is that with the twists and turns of life's highway time will heal any rift between you... But if you are wise, there won't be a rift to heal.
You have been given some very good advice by RubyPitbull and J9 and the others on here.
Lacey, I deal often with people who say "My last words to him/her were in anger." or were hurtful, or were ______ (you fill in the blank). Hug and kiss your loved ones as you part company... Tell them often how much you love them... Snap the rubber band on your wrist two, three or four... Or however many times you need to do so in order to remind yourself to think before inserting your foot in your mouth.
Oh, and if a rubber band isn't strong enough to get your attention. Try going to the local truck-stop and get some rubber rope. I guarantee from painful experience... When you get snapped with rubber rope it gets your attention.
Blessings,
John
I am christian but I am not mormon. I have seen a lot of people stray from God that are mormon but I don't know why they stop believing...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacey5765
I agree with you J_9 for the most part although it is easier said than done when it comes to letting your children make horrible mistakes.
OK, an update for those who care. I will try to make it short. I talked with the boyfriend's mother and let her know my concerns about the relationship (sexual). SHe also was concerned since he had also made commitments to wait until marriage. AWe all got together for a very emotionl talk in which they said that they had already decided to cool things down and had realized that they were not ready for a sexual relationship. CUDOS for them!! Anyway the mother said that they still should not spend every minute together and give each other a chance to be themselves without the other. She also encouraged my daughter to look into different religions. I bit my tongue on that one. So anyway my daughter keeps emailing him and calling him. He seems to be distancing himself a little but my daughter doesn't see it. I suggested that since his mother had advised that they should be the same religion before marriage that he also look at Mormonism. My daughter said that she agreed because he sated that he wanted to know the truth and it would only benefit him to a least understand where she came form. We both agreed that since had been so willing to look at his beliefs and except his answers that he also would be willing to do so for her. Well,of course that isn't so. He said he din't see any need to look at Mormonism because he already knew what he believed. She is hurt but still doesn't see what I saw all along. He also said his mother isn't sure if she will allow it. How about that? She encouraged my daughter to leave her church but not allow her son to look at another. Anyway the prom is tonight and honestly I am hoping that he fizzles out after that. Like I said he seems to be pulling away and she had a problem with him not being willing to look at our (my) beliefs for her. Maybe she will see what I have seen all along,that she was into this relationship more that he was and he only wanted her to change but not himself. So we will see how this goes. We are getting along well. I just wish that she would work to find out what she believes. She seems content in not knowing anything and I don't want to push.
Controlling religious parents seem to a large part of the problem here.
Lacey, thank you for the update. I am glad to hear that things are going better for you all. Please keep us posted.
Its her decision what she does, just remember, god loves us all, and he is the right way, but in the end, it's a persons own decision what faith they are off.
I miss talking with you all. Things are about the same. She continues to call him, email, him and run whenever he wants to see her. He couldn't come to her friends wedding, go swimming with her, or come to dinner because he had others things to do. But she still insists that he loves her and tells her so. She still is content with not believing anything and he still had refused to listen to our beliefs until today when my husband an I suggested that if he really cared about her as much as he says, he would be willing to hear about what we believe if for no other reason than where she is coming from. ( I still contend that she has made all of the changes to accommodate him). Things that used to be important to her are not now because they aren't to him. For instance she never would go to restaurants or shopping on Sundays when friends would invite her because she said that she felt that the Sabbath day was to be spent in worship and with families. But last Sunday they went to the movies. When I asked why the change she said because his church says it is OK. They only say you shouldn't work on Sunday and that this commandment was not repeated so you don't have to observe it?? So today he says that he will listen to the missionaries explain our beliefs. He says that he will next week so we will see. We have heard it before. I am not trying to convert him or her for that matter. I just want her to see that he is still trying to change her while he is unwilling to meet her half way. Maybe all mothers feel that no one is good enough for their daughters but I want her to be with someone who truly loves her the way she is and be crazy about her. I want most of all for her to be happy. They say they are waiting until they both finish school to get married but meanwhile she sits at home waiting for him to call and misses out on life. She says she is OK with that. Is there anyway that I can make her see without forcing her to choose? I want to force a change in some ways but I do realize that she is an adult. We pay for her car insuance, cell phone and other expenses though so where do we draw the line in supporting her?
Are you saying that you will support her as long as she believes the way that you do? Is that what you mean?
The forth commandment says that we should remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. Originally the Sabbath day was on a Saturday, now it is recognized on Sunday. If she is planning on marrying this guy, is this guy not her family and she was spending time with him?
I am going through the same ordeal with my niece except the boy she is marrying is a mormon and she is not. We never push religion on him in any way. It is his mormon parents who push it on both of them. To be honest with you I am starting to believe that the mormon children purposely find someone who is not mormon so that they can find a way out. They rebel. My niece went to the mormon church and she even was babtized there. As she went she started to really disagree with some of the teachings of the religion. She says the mother of the boy who is mormon is very judgemental, and talks about everyone behind their back. My niece just doesn't want to have anything to do with people like that. And this is really posing a problem on this young couple, because the family cannot stay out of their business. I personally love her fiancé very much, I don't care if he is a mormon or not, unfortunately, his parents care if my niece is.
As far as you speaking with his mother, let me tell you something, she doesn't agree with your religion one bit, I can guarantee it. But it seems as if she loves her child no matter what. At what point in time does your religion allow you to let your child make mistakes, live her life? Is your love unconditional or is there strings attached? Will you accept her if she decides that she does not want to be a mormon or practice it? In your religion what are the consequences for her going to the movies on a Sunday? Does it make a difference in the big picture? Are you willing to go with your daughter to another church like his? If not what difference does it make?
Oh I know she doesn't agree with our religion and she has refused to let him hear about it. She has encourged my daughter to leave the Mormon church. I will love my my daughter no matter what she chooses. I just don't want her to settle with someone who isn't as in love with her as she is with him. Actually most Mormons marry other Mormons to avoid this conflict of different beliefs. No she did not spend the day with any family. She went to the movie which she previously felf was wrong.
Lacey,
Just let your daughter live her life. If you love her, respect her decisions. My hubby is LDS and he has 6 other siblings that are also married and LDS, two of them married a non mormon, and you know who had the conflict. THE MORMON FAMILY, MY IN LAWS, ESPECIALLY MY MOTHER IN LAW. She also pushed me to get baptized.
Let them do what they want to do. You can't push religion in your daughter if she decided she doesn't believe. It's just going to make her distant.
I'm sorry to say this but the biggest issue with you is that this boy is not Mormon. Admit it or not I know. I live in the Mormon state UTAH and I know how LDS people are.
If you love your daughter, let her make her own decisions, respect them and be there for her. Don't push her or her BF in something they don't want. If your daughter really believes in the church she will sooner or later talk to her BF about it and defend it. But there is nothing you should do.
Lotz, I think this part of your advice really sums it up well. Lacey, your daughter is the one that should be defending and teaching her BF about her religion. You cannot force this any further. I know you are frustrated and feel that he is being unreasonable and that your daughter is hanging on his every word and following him like a puppy dog, but that is YOUR view. NOT your daughter's view. You have to stop for a moment and put yourself in your daughter's shoes. Remember what it was like when you were her age? Didn't you think you knew everything? I know I did, and most older teens do. If you keep this up, you will push her further away and I wouldn't be one bit surprised if she marries him sooner, rather than later. She needs to live her life, make her own decisions and yes, make her own mistakes. If you back off, in time, this whole relationship may end on it's own. J_9 is away for a while, but I think you need to go back a couple of pages here and reread what she wrote to you. Look at her info about her own life, her parents, her marriage at 19, her divorce. Your daughter will have the same outcome in her life if you insist on continuing in this vein.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotz_of_Questions
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