You misunderstood what I wrote and came to a faulty conclusion. I have never said "we could not trust the Bible as being authentically God's word being that man has dabbled in it."Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
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You misunderstood what I wrote and came to a faulty conclusion. I have never said "we could not trust the Bible as being authentically God's word being that man has dabbled in it."Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Oh Boy, here we go Again!!! WG, you have brought up (numerous times), in the past. Past Posts. About How we could not trust the Bible being God's word being that man has dabbled with it. And all we have is man's dibble-dabbling manuscripts of God's Word. I can accept that. Let's go with that, you are 100% right. If God wanted man to dibble dabble with his manuscripts, then that is what we have. There we have it, the Holy Bible as God has presented it to us. The living Word!
If you're not going to accept what you have been saying all along, there is no reason why anybody should listen to you. Don't you agree?
(and No!. I'm not going to look up posts that I (and you) know exist.
Take a wild Guess. Apparently not you.Quote:
Who has the True Bible?
The second scripture above doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with the topic, and I don't see why you think it is a reference to OT Jews. It is a reference to a future day of judgment, still yet to come.Quote:
Bible Saves? Should I go into - in the beginning the Word was...and the Word became flesh and so on and so on?
or; “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
As to Jesus being the Word, it is not referring to Jesus being the Bible. Surely you must realize that when Jesus walked the earth, he wasn't a King James Bible.
I just don't have a solid opinion on the idea of Jesus being capable of sinning. He was certainly capable of being tempted, but could he have chosen to sin? I don't see how, but I've never really studied it.
Just stop.Quote:
I have never said
I think WG has an affection for the Bible, but only the parts that agree with her views. So, for instance, when Jesus in Matthew 25 teaches of a horrible day of judgment coming, she simply chooses to ignore it, claim "cherry-picking", or use some other excuse to get around it. Bible teaches homosexuality is a sin? Find an obscure, practically unknown author who has a hair-brained theory to work around it. And on and on it goes.Quote:
I have never said "we could not trust the Bible as being authentically God's word being that man has dabbled in it."
Following the teachings of the Bible is like taking your medicine. Much of it is cherry-flavored and nice to the taste, but some doesn't taste so good. Still, it is all a blessing and necessary for us to follow.
Jesus saves(right). You know the Jesus that saves, I know the Jesus that saves, WG knows the Jesus that walked the earth. So what of the People of the OT that are saved? Did they know Jesus?Quote:
The second scripture above doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with the topic
Clearly these righteous sinners didn't know the God-man Jesus.Quote:
Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
We can see Jesus all throughout the Old Testament. What Word do you think he's talking about? Gods Word? Do you mean the living Bible? If God's Word lives in you...Quote:
As to Jesus being the Word, it is not referring to Jesus being the Bible.
The Bible has power and authority. Yes, God's Word includes the Bible. The Bible is God's Word, the living Word. That's why its truths are our foundation. we must believe that he is the living Rock that provides a spring full of water.
You know those Rocks that Cried out Hosanna? Well, that would be the Bible crying out. You know The men of God in the Old Testament, the Bible talking.
Damning WG is a sin. Be careful. Yes, Bible teachings are a blessing, such as love one another and thou shalt not bear false witness against a member of AskMeHelpDesk.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Posted earlier: Some people just don't mind as long as it can just be Jesus in his Humanity,Quote:
Find an obscure, practically unknown author who has a hair-brained theory to work around it. And on and on it goes.
In fact, there are people who use Jesus in his Humanity to argue for their sins. Just be reminded of the fact that the greatest tool or one of the greatest tools of deception that the enemy has is the fact that it has been easy to make people appreciate Jesus in his Humanity.
Yes, God took on flesh and was born a man. He did not take on the Nature of Man. Don't believe in Adams's humanity.
Great question. We had a long discussion of that probably a year or two ago. In my view, they were saved by faith in the coming Savior. Abraham is a great example who Paul used in both Romans and Galatians.Quote:
Jesus saves(right). You know the Jesus that saves, I know the Jesus that saves, WG knows the Jesus that walked the earth. So what of the People of the OT that are saved? Did they know Jesus?
Why do you say that?Quote:
Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? Clearly these righteous sinners didn't know the God-man Jesus.
Oh please stop. No one is "damning" you. I am pointing out what is true and can easily verify it. There is no bearing of a false witness going on.Quote:
Damning WG is a sin. Be careful. Yes, Bible teachings are a blessing, such as love one another and thou shalt not bear false witness against a member of AskMeHelpDesk.
In the Old Testament salvation was by grace through faith, the same as today. They looked forward to the coming Messiah; we look back to the cross. The gospel was taught, preached, and proclaimed in the Old Testament just as it is in the New Testament.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Why Would those who know Jesus not know what they were doing when they knew they were doing it for Jesus all along?Quote:
Why do you say that?
It's not like we (Christians) are going to be confronted by Jesus, having him say what he says, and not know what he is talking about. Jesus just said it to us (he's saying it to us as we read in the Bible). So we know now that whenever, whatever we give to somebody, we are giving to Jesus...So who is it that would be saying "When did we feed you etc. etc.?
Do you see where this is going?
Maybe. And then it's possible that many Christians know that to be true, but just don't put it altogether on that day. So perhaps your idea is right, but I wouldn't get dogmatic about it.Quote:
Why Would those who know Jesus not know what they were doing when they knew they were doing it for Jesus all along?
It's not like we (Christians) are going to be confronted by Jesus, having him say what he says, and not know what he is talking about. Jesus just said it to us (he's saying it to us as we read in the Bible).
Not really, but I'm listening.Quote:
Do you see where this is going?
Not sure I agree with that, but don't entirely disagree with it either. I think it's the part about the Gospel being, "taught, preached, and proclaimed in the Old Testament," that I will have to really ponder some.Quote:
In the Old Testament salvation was by grace through faith, the same as today. They looked forward to the coming Messiah; we look back to the cross. The gospel was taught, preached, and proclaimed in the Old Testament just as it is in the New Testament.
Don't you understand? He was not born of ordinary generation. He's the God-man who was born of a virgin. Who therefore did not inherit Adam's sin. And it is only because of that, because he didn't inherit Adam's sin, he could atone for ours, which is exactly what he did. He reconciled Us in his body of Flesh by his death in order to present us holy blameless and above reproach, in him in Christ.
Do you remember when Jesus said if you simply think in your head, about lust, that it is a Sin?
The Sin starts once you think about it. Then it grows into full fruition and you have given yourself over to sin. On this Basis, I say it was impossible for the God-Man to sin. Because in order to sin you first have to think about it and If you think Jesus thought about sin the way that you and I think about sin, then you are gravely mistaken.
(Still don't understand?)
Why did God need to create a creator?
Being God why didn't he just create??
From Wikipedia (of all places!) --Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Christian theology describes the good news of salvation in Jesus Christ not as a new concept, but one that has been foretold throughout the Hebrew scripture (known as the Old Testament in Christian Bibles) and was prophetically preached even at the time of the fall of man as contained in Genesis 3:14–15, which has been called the "Proto-Evangelion" or "Proto-Gospel".
And from --
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/e...old-testament/
God’s revelation throughout the Old Testament prefigures, anticipates, and announces beforehand the redemption that he would accomplish in the person and work of his incarnate Son, Jesus Christ.
SUMMARY
When the apostles read the Old Testament, they saw references to Christ and his kingdom, as it were, on every page. Jesus is the second Adam, the perfect law keeper, the scion of David who would sit on David’s throne forever, the ultimate singer of the psalms, the wisdom of God, the suffering servant, the perfect high priest, to name just a few. The theological foundation for this conviction is that God is sovereign over history and he is the (ultimate) author of Scripture. As such, God announced beforehand, in type and shadow, promise and prophecy, the redemption he would accomplish through his incarnate Son. He did this so that his people might believe on the promised Messiah prior to his coming and so that those who know the Christ who has come might have a greater understanding of the work that he accomplished through his suffering and glory.
...Quote:
Christian theology describes the good news of salvation in Jesus Christ not as a new concept, but one that has been foretold throughout the Hebrew scripture (known as the Old Testament in Christian Bibles)
Great post!
I'm even taking notes. Read it four times now. Do you think it's actually possible (the three of us coming together in agreement)?
I think we should work on the - "Jesus succumbing to sin" - A bit more. What does it mean to sin, what is Sin? To present ourselves to sin is to say, “Here sin, use my eyes for a while. Use me to sin. Come on into my thoughts and ruminate around.” The only Sin in Jesus's body, the only sin to hit his mind is our sin. He is Lord over all creation. He came to destroy sin and the Devel... That is God in action. God uses sin as a tool. A tool to break sin itself. Think about it? God says Jesus became sin (that's us), and Us having the full righteousness of Jesus (who is now sin) can now overcome sin and its Father the devel. Sin is dead and buried. Jesus didn't come to teach us how to live (because he already lives, all life is in him) He taught us how to Die...get it?
Thanks, waltero!Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Yes, we three are Christians. Let's pray and ask our loving Father to guide us toward unity of thoughts and useful discussions of our beliefs.
What does it mean to sin, what is Sin? To present ourselves to sin is to say, “Here sin, use my eyes for a while. Use me to sin. Come on into my thoughts and ruminate around.” The only Sin in Jesus's body, the only sin to hit his mind is our sin. He is Lord over all creation. He came to destroy sin and the Devel... That is God in action. God uses sin as a tool. A tool to break sin itself. Think about it? God says Jesus became sin (that's us), and Us having the full righteousness of Jesus, we can now overcome sin and its Father the devel. Sin is dead and buried. Jesus didn't come to teach us how to live (because he already lives, all life is in him) He taught us how to Die...get it? Dies to sin. Take on the mind of Christ Jesus...which has eliminated sin before all of creation.Quote:
I think we should work on the - "Jesus succumbing to sin" - A bit more.
Is this too far out there? Does it make any sense? Because it does to me.
In short, to sin is to not love. Sin is total love of self, selfishness, thinking only of oneself.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
I think this is pretty good. The underlined sentence seems to go much too far, but otherwise I like it. The difference is that the Gospel is explicitly taught in the NT over and over again while it is more seen in "types and shadows" in the OT rather than being clearly taught. The great emphasis of the OT is the law of Moses, a means of salvation which proved to be impossible due to the weakness and sinfulness of man. "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh."Quote:
When the apostles read the Old Testament, they saw references to Christ and his kingdom, as it were, on every page. Jesus is the second Adam, the perfect law keeper, the scion of David who would sit on David’s throne forever, the ultimate singer of the psalms, the wisdom of God, the suffering servant, the perfect high priest, to name just a few. The theological foundation for this conviction is that God is sovereign over history and he is the (ultimate) author of Scripture. As such, God announced beforehand, in type and shadow, promise and prophecy, the redemption he would accomplish through his incarnate Son. He did this so that his people might believe on the promised Messiah prior to his coming and so that those who know the Christ who has come might have a greater understanding of the work that he accomplished through his suffering and glory.
That's good, but I think sin is much deeper than that. It involves rebellion against the authority and revealed will of God. "The mindset of the flesh is hostile to God because it does not submit to God’s law. Indeed, it is unable to do so."Quote:
In short, to sin is to not love. Sin is total love of self, selfishness, thinking only of oneself.
What about the rapists and burglars and murderers and arsonists, etc. who have no knowledge of God's authority and His will? And the many who were born with a mental illness lurking?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth [l]in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident [m]within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."Quote:
What about the rapists and burglars and murderers and arsonists, etc. who have no knowledge of God's authority and His will? And the many who were born with a mental illness lurking?
Equally as important, what about all of those you listed who do have knowledge of God's authority and His will?
Being taught nonetheless. In fact, I would believe the Jews understand more about the righteousness of God, and man's sinfulness than most believers. And if you understand that We are in the time of the Gentiles (aka the time of Grace)? Upon Jesus's return, the time of grace will (be over) revert back to the Jews (but that is neither here nor there). There are two sides, one is Physical and the other is Spiritual.. believe what you will.Quote:
rather than being clearly taught.
But the fact still remains, they are still being taught to this day...the same Jesus (unbeknownst to them..."Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you...") and the same God.
Only Jesus proved it was not impossible. People who have God’s law and those who have never heard of the law are all the same when they sin. Those who do not have the law and are sinners will be lost. And, in the same way, people who have the law and are sinners will be judged by the law.Quote:
The great emphasis of the OT is the law of Moses, a means of salvation which proved to be impossible
@ WG: I know it really bothers you not knowing about those who are mentally deficient or those who haven't heard the Word. The Bible tells us not to worry about that. We are to love them the same as Jesus loves us. We are called to love all people the same as Jesus loves. We can love, but our love is nothing in comparison to God's love.
God Loves Jesus - What is that? I mean what does that really mean? So God loves Jesus - Big deal...I mean *He is God*. Are we saying God loves himself? God shows his, great, love for His Son, through the love that we have for His Son. The love that he has given to us...that love being Jesus. by Giving us that same love, (through Jesus) that we give to Jesus. We are God's love. God doesn't love Humankind. He loves his Son (who do we love?). The Bible teaches us that this is all for Jesus. Everything that has been created has been created For Jesus...And we (those who choose life) are in Jesus aka God's great love...for us!
The world is an intricate web of interrelations, such that objects no longer have their own individual existence independent from other objects
Not sure why you would believe that.Quote:
In fact, I would believe the Jews understand more about the righteousness of God, and man's sinfulness than most believers.
Not real sure what your first sentence (We are God's love) means. Maybe you could expand on that one a bit. The second statement is not true at all. Of course God loves "humankind". John 3:16 is a clear statement about that, and it's hard to imagine how it could be any more plainly stated. Romans 3:21-25 also makes the case plainly.Quote:
We are God's love. God doesn't love Humankind.
I think that's a good comment.Quote:
The Bible teaches us that this is all for Jesus. Everything that has been created has been created For Jesus...And we (those who choose life) are in Jesus aka God's great love...for us!
As for the mentally deficient, that will be placed in God's hands, and he can be trusted to do what is right.
Seek and yee will find...don't Worry, don't be scared, don't be afraid...God has it all under control. Everybody (even you) is right where their supposed to be...don't worry about it.Quote:
It does? Where?
I thought I explained it pretty well.Quote:
We are God's love
Is it? When you read it in it's proper context (We went over this once before).Quote:
The second statement is not true at all. Of course God loves "humankind". John 3:16 is a clear statement about that
Look at the Greek if it will help.
Context: You (we) need to look at the preceding verses 14 and 15. “Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.” God provided a way of escape. Thus, in the same way . . . . . . v 16. Loved: past tense. (Not “loves”) Agape love – a love of action, that responds to a need.
That's why Jesus never talked about the love of God (same in Acts) in public. He only talked about the love of God with His disciples. Why talk about the love of God when nobody can understand love, what love is, or where it comes from? I think that is what Jesus was talking about when he said; "Do not cast your pearls before swine." I was watching a video, and somebody posted a comment saying; This is unconditional love at its finest...where do you think they got that from?
We need God's love in order to "Love." What is that love? That would be Jesus. We need Jesus in order to love... more than that, we need Jesus's love in order to gain that same love that God has for his Son (God's love)...that same love that he gave to us (which is the Christ) we give back to God through Jesus. That is what makes God's love for his one and only Son so Special...being one in Jesus, we receive that same love. We have never loved God. We never asked for God's love in order to love him...It takes God's love in order for us to love Jesus. How does God show his love for his one and only Son? He shows it with the love he gave to us through our savior Jesus.
Our love is the one and the same love that he gave to us by sending Jesus...he sent his love to us. That same love that God adorns Jesus with (the love he gives to us sinners), Jesus, in turn, gives back to God (Circular reasoning).
We shall love God with all our Hearts, all our minds, all our strength, etc. etc. A commandment that is Impossible for us to fulfill. God has done it for us in the life and love of Jesus Christ. I'm sorry but God doesn't love all of Humanity (as we know it). Jesus brought us peace with God. Jesus loves all the people of the World. God in fact is angry with the world. Believe in Jesus and His love will shine through the darkness. If you don't understand - maybe think about all of Humanity being in one body...that of Jesus the Christ.
You took five words from the Bible and then just added your own thoughts. That's a dangerous habit you have. And the five words you actually quoted ("Seek and yee will find") have nothing to do with the question, and that's another dangerous habit you have. Just tossing out a word salad is not really giving a serious answer.Quote:
Seek and yee will find...don't Worry, don't be scared, don't be afraid...God has it all under control. Everybody (even you) is right where their supposed to be...don't worry about it.
I've looked at it in the Greek several times. Guess what? It reads the same way in Greek as it does in English. "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son." I just don't see how this could be any plainer. God loves sinners in the sense that, by sacrificing His only Son, He has made provision for them to not only be saved from the day of his wrath, but to enter into the eternal joys of heaven with Him. There is no love any purer or more beautiful than that.Quote:
Look at the Greek if it will help.
Context: You (we) need to look at the preceding verses 14 and 15. “Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.” God provided a way of escape. Thus, in the same way . . . . . . v 16. Loved: past tense. (Not “loves”) Agape love – a love of action, that responds to a need.
This is from Young's Literal Translation. Tell me how this helps your cause. "for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during."
The love of God for sinners can also be seen in Luke 6:35, John 13:34, and Romans 5:8.
Sometimes I'm not sure why you say; "where did you find that in the Bible"? I think we all know what Jesus said when he referred to Worry. Jesus even mentioned "Don't worry." I feel as though you are testing me. I don't feel like playing that game.
Main Points For/so : These are link words expanding or explaining something that was said earlier. We need to look at the preceeding verses 14 and 15. “Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.”
It is not "God Soooo loved." It is "God So loved" (as in verses 14 and 15) the world - . And if you look at the word "Loved" (past tense). And if you look in the World (Churches) today, you would see it is all messed up. Largely because Of that one Verse. John 3:16 seems to have summed up the entire Bible. Go ahead and read the Bible verses you posted, they all pertain to Jesus. Might I point out -Have you not read - Nobody knows the Father but the Son. How is one going to know the Father of Jesus much less The Father's love? Yes, God loves the People of the World...But only through Jesus. JESUS is the Father's love that he sends (if we ask) us...We express the Father's love that he bestows toward Jesus.
You can see what your Idea of love has done to the World today. What does It matter if God Loves Jesus? How is His love for Jesus any greater than his love for anybody or anything else? So you say God loves sinners? Big deal, right? In what way does he love sinners? In the way of him sending his love (Son) into a world of sinners. The only person who knows or experiences the Love of the Father is Jesus. In Order for us to truly know of the Father's love (at all) we must know Jesus. Once we know of Jesus, we have a choice to accept God's love or Reject the love of Jesus. if we were to reject God's love, we would never know God's love, and his love (which is Jesus) would have never known us.
A natural Father loves his Child for no other reason than it is his Child. God Loves his Son, in whom all of creation resides. We Sinners are his creation and it is our love expressed towered Jesus that the Father shows his love for his Son. In the same way, God shows his love for us sinners by sending his love (Jesus) to us sinners. Not all sinners are going to want to receive God's love...those who do not will never know love or what it is like to feel true love.
God is our inheritance means that God is our possession, our treasure, and our enjoyment. It also means that all God has promised us in salvation is being reserved for us in heaven. However, God does not inherit our natural being, but only what He has wrought into us of Himself. We are God's love and that is all we should ever express.
Walter, you said a lot in this statement. "Seek and yee will find...don't Worry, don't be scared, don't be afraid...God has it all under control. Everybody (even you) is right where their supposed to be...don't worry about it." Not worrying is one I would completely agree with, but suggesting that everyone is right where they are supposed to be is a different story. The stories of people being disobedient to God fill the Bible. They were certainly not where they were supposed to be.
As in verses 14 and 15? Where do you see the word "love" in those two verses? And the whole thing of "soooo" versus "so" is, to me, just silliness.Quote:
It is not "God Soooo loved." It is "God So loved" (as in verses 14 and 15) the world
Might I point out that you were careless in your quote. The full quote says, "No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." So yes, we can know the Father.Quote:
Might I point out -Have you not read - Nobody knows the Father but the Son.
This is very good, and especially the underlined sentence. I love that sentiment.Quote:
God is our inheritance means that God is our possession, our treasure, and our enjoyment. It also means that all God has promised us in salvation is being reserved for us in heaven. However, God does not inherit our natural being, but only what He has wrought into us of Himself. We are God's love and that is all we should ever express.
Walter, you need to know that I am very careful in my choices of words. I try to be precise as much as I can in expressing my thoughts. So when you say, "We are God's love," I really don't know what you mean. We are certainly the objects of God's love, but I don't think you can say that we ARE God's love.
Maybe that is why you don't understand a word I said. What is it to know the Father?Quote:
I try to be precise as much as I can in expressing my thoughts.
Nobody would know the Father, or understand the Love that the Father has For his son['s]. The only way we get to know (love) the Father is through Jesus. We will continue to know jack all unless the Father gives us the Love that is needed to love him. we get that love only through his one and only son. It is not our love, it is Jesus's love for us that we are able to love the Father. Jesus's love for us is the same love God gives to his son['s]...otherwise, Otherwise, God would only love his son as all earthly fathers love their sons and Daughters. We know that love...But we don't know God's love...we will never know what it is about God's love that makes it differ from our love...Until Jesus enters our lives. It's all one and the same Love, bundled up in one person.
Our love for God is [that same] love we receive for him and his Son...That's what love is...It all belongs to God. Give Back to Jesus the love God gives to you. When you "love" your enemies, it is not you loving them it is Jesus. When you love your Wife, it is not you loving her, it is Jesus. When you love a homosexual, it is not your love...it is the love that comes from knowing Jesus that came from God.
We are like clay jars in which this treasure is stored. The real power comes from God and not from us.
The Power is Love. Not that you are to love everybody as you know love. But to love everybody as Jesus loved us...Giving your (which is actually his at that point) life if necessary.
I don't know if you remember a while back when I posted John 3:16. I mentioned what I mentioned here, and a poster that we all know and love, said: That would mean my life's work is Useless! That was exactly what I was talking about (thank you poster, But you all didn't understand any more than you do now)!!!!!
It's not about how much God loves you or how you strive to love your brothers and Sisters...That seems to be the way most Christians look and feel when reading John 3:16. That is not at all what John was saying. Also; I think Dividing the Bible up into verses might play a bigger part part in that...Bigger than we could ever realize.
Please reread before you respond. I've spent Mucho time editing. Thank you.
How would me taking care with my choice of words have anything at all to do with trying to understand you???Quote:
Maybe that is why you don't understand a word I said.
If you will ponder this with even a smidgen of care, you will begin to see why your comments can be hard to understand.
Aim for this level of clarity every time and you will have more success. This is well said and on target.Quote:
We are like clay jars in which this treasure is stored. The real power comes from God and not from us.
[QUOTE]Same reason The disciples didn't understand a single word Jesus was saying. If you will ponder this with even a smidgen of care, you will begin to see why my comments can be hard to understand.Quote:
How would me taking care with my choice of words have anything at all to do with trying to understand you???
I don't know. It might have something to do with one of Us having Book smarts and the other through experience. I never understood why people feel they must go to seminary school to be an ordained minister. It's like saying; I want to feed the poor...I'd better go take a cooking class.
Yes, I understand it is hard to explain how all this (all of Creation) is simply an expression of God's love. Jesus receiving his expression and us being the recipients...which in turn (if you know that we are in Jesus and he is in us) Jesus gaining more than just an expression...Jesus gaining true love, as well as us gaining that same true love... Jesus being that true love, us receiving....round and round it goes. We enter into the fullness of the Godhead through love...So shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.
All for the Love Of his Son ['s]. God's word is love...we along with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are a culmination of God's love. If God be love, we be that love (word choice :-) too.
It's stream of consciousness. From dictionary.com:
"a literary style in which a character's thoughts, feelings, and reactions are depicted in a continuous flow uninterrupted by objective description or conventional dialogue. James Joyce, Virginia Woolf, and Marcel Proust are among its notable early exponents."
I assure you that I have been able to see that for quite some time. It has something to do with things like this. " If God be love, we be that love (word choice :-) too."Quote:
Same reason The disciples didn't understand a single word Jesus was saying. If you will ponder this with even a smidgen of care, you will begin to see why my comments can be hard to understand.
As to your experience, I've been a Christian for 45 years. I wouldn't count too much on your experience being able to prevail. And that's not to say I don't honor it, but it still all comes back to knowing the Word by the Spirit of God.
Jesus was born of a Virgin. Anybody born of sinful Nature will indubitably Sin. Had Jesus been Born of Mans sinful nature, He would have sinned and there would be no redeemer. Philippians 2:6–8 describes Jesus setting aside His divine privileges as God to take on the likeness of the humans He had created (see also John 1:3). However, Jesus did not have an earthly father, so He did not inherit a sin nature as all other human beings do (Luke 1:35).
When I mention the Carnal mind, what I mean by that is. If you are an allegorist, then you have it set in your mind that this is not true (this being the Word of God), in turn, you will miss other truths, being that you don't believe this or that previous verse. It's like When JL said I was a Calvinist (I don't know what a Calvinist believes in...Did Calvin know he was a Calvinist?) in that sense, he (JL) is liable to subject his understanding of a particular Verse, it not being "(his" belief) and in turn, ignore other verses as they were meant to be taken. You might be looking at the surface.
@JL, what is the difference between John 3:16 and John 1:14? “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In regards to tis Vers, you exclaimed, "The Bible is Not the Word he is talking about." You gave no explanation, you simply spoke it as you knew it to be...The difference is you. You got it in your Carnal mind that - John 3:16 and John 1:14 can not be.
As well as WG: Certainly God can have stones cry out...But WG doesn't believe that to be the case. The phrase "if they do not cry out, the very stones will" is a quote from the Bible, specifically Luke 19:40. It is said by Jesus in response to the Pharisees telling him to silence his followers for proclaiming him the King of glory. Jesus is saying that if his followers were to be silenced, the stones would immediately cry out.
The Virgin Mary was not sinless.
I gave no explanation? I most certainly did. I told you that when Jesus walked the earth, he was not a paper and ink book broken into chapters and verses. I guess you think he was. Go figure.Quote:
@JL, what is the difference between John 3:16 and John 1:14? “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In regards to tis Vers, you exclaimed, "The Bible is Not the Word he is talking about." You gave no explanation, you simply spoke it as you knew it to be...The difference is you. You got it in your Carnal mind that - John 3:16 and John 1:14 can not be.
As to the two passages in John and how are they different? One describes the love of God leading to the sacrifice of Christ which makes our salvation through faith possible. The other describes the nature of Jesus and the reaction of John to His appearing on earth. I suggest you do some research on the Greek work "logos" in order to understand the meaning of the 1:14 passge.
Well said, WG. However, Walter's point is that the sin nature is passed on through the father. Jesus did not have an earthly father, so he would not have inherited that. There are some reasons to believe that, but I don't know that it's all crystal clear.Quote:
The Virgin Mary was not sinless.
. I'm not saying she was sinless. Then why did Jesus have to be born of a Vergin?Quote:
The Virgin Mary was not sinless
In the same way as God declared us Holy, Mary was Holy. Why didn't God Just Fill a man with the Holy Spirit and have him impregnate Mary? Jesus was not Born out of Sin! Anybody, everybody who is Born of a sinful nature will sin. There is no other compramise.
How does one explain that God is in a book, in pages? It's the Spirit of the Word. The Ten Commandments were etched in stone. Jesus was the Rock that spewed out water for the Israelites to drink. Jesus Is the Manna that came down from heaven, God's word is alive...the living Word. Stop thinking of it as your flesh.
So Jesus is also a door? He is also the light that comes from lightbulbs? If a person tears a page out of his Bible and burns it, then he has burned God? When Moses broke the tablets, was he breaking Jesus? Since the tock that put forth water was literally Jesus, then is Jesus still in the wilderness?
One cannot.Quote:
How does one explain that God is in a book, in pages?
Symbolic.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Exactly.Quote:
Symbolic.
WOW, I didn't realize you were so far off. THE LIVING WORD! What is it you don't understand? Is there any reason why the Jews have given themselves over to their Scripture? Same With Christians. Same with being filled with the Holy Spirit.
The disciples didn't know the scripture. So how is it that once they were filled with the Holy Spirit, it brought the scriptures to life? We also have the book of life. You really should seek the spirit of the word. the life-giving spirit of the word.
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