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People kill each other because of free will. People use their free will to do good or evil. Two male penguins parented an orphan baby penguin because of free will. The internet is full of stories about same-sex individuals that worked together as caregivers.
Yet another question unanswered.Quote:
Give me an example that is not the result of a genetic abnormality.
Has nothing to do with the fall of Adam/Eve resulting in non-binary individuals. Nothing at all.Quote:
People kill each other because of free will. People use their free will to do good or evil. Two male penguins parented an orphan baby penguin because of free will. The internet is full of stories about same-sex individuals that worked together as caregivers.
You have documentation for this? Even if true, did the two male penguins have sex with each other? Did they continue to mate with female penguins? Did they attempt to act like female penguins?Quote:
Two male penguins parented an orphan baby penguin because of free will.
Of course, it does!!! Mother Nature got free will.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Yes, I'm a retired librarian, but you have a brain ... hmm ... and can search.Quote:
You have documentation for this? Even if true, did the two male penguins have sex with each other? Did they continue to mate with female penguins? Did they attempt to act like female penguins?
How?Quote:
Of course, it does!!!
Let's see now. YOU are retired librarian, and yet you cannot do your own searching and need someone else to do it for you? "Hmm," indeed. Again, you would be better served to be honest and admit you don't know at all.Quote:
Yes, I'm a retired librarian, but you have a brain ... hmm ... and can search.
More unanswered questions. "...did the two male penguins have sex with each other? Did they continue to mate with female penguins? Did they attempt to act like female penguins?" There is now a plethora of them. (I knew you would like that word "plethora".)
It's not MY searching. The obligation is on you. Plus, as a teacher, did you always hold a student's hand? I bet not. You let him do his own work and make discoveries on his own.
You don't know how to research? Googling is so helpful!
One of many similar headlines:
Gay penguin couple become first-time dads at New York zoo
So the answer is no, you have no idea whether or not two male penguins raised an orphan penguin. Don't know why you can't just be honest and admit to it. And why I would have some obligation to find documentation for a claim made by you is just a mystery.Quote:
It's not MY searching. The obligation is on you. Plus, as a teacher, did you always hold a student's hand? I bet not. You let him do his own work and make discoveries on his own.
You don't know how to research? Googling is so helpful!
Actually, it's not. Just trying to get out of a tight spot, are you?
Quote:
More unanswered questions. "...did the two male penguins have sex with each other? Did they continue to mate with female penguins? Did they attempt to act like female penguins?" There is now a plethora of them.
I added more to my post. Please read. As I said, that headline is only one of many similar ones.
Here's another:
We’re getting used to celebrity public transgender announcements but did you know that plants can also change their sex?
The Fortingall Yew (Taxus baccata), proclaimed as the UK’s oldest tree is undergoing a partial transformation from male to female.
Yew trees are dioecious (meaning ‘two houses’) so plants can be either male or female. Male plants produce pollen, and female plants have bright red berries. The Fortingall Yew in Perthshire, Scotland, believed to be anything from 3000 to 9000 years old has always been described in records as a male plant. But a few months ago local experts noticed that one small part of the upper canopy was starting to produce female berries.
It’s not an unknown phenomenon for trees to change sex – some conifers do it and ash trees are notorious for switching. The plant’s hormones are altered by environmental factors, or perhaps age. Botanists at the University of Tuscia in Viterbo, Italy have recorded instances of female yew trees changing to male, and noted that female yew trees are more prone to suffer stress.
https://gardendrum.com/2016/01/07/ye...ansgender-too/
Did the Yew tree actually develop female reproductive organs (flowers) thus becoming capable of producing offspring (seeds), or did it simply claim to have become female with no evidence at all?
As to the penguins, I'll ask the unanswered question again. Do the two males have sex with each other, or are they simply companions as in friends? Might add that the entire scenario of the two of them incubating an egg was contrived by the zoo personnel, and referring to them as a "gay couple" is just ridiculous.
I do give you credit for looking up your two examples. Neither of them, however, did anything to prove your case that Adam and Eve somehow released transgenderism on humanity. Keep looking.
I actually have no problem with you using these types of examples to attempt to prove your case for TG and homosexuality. I don't agree with them at all, but it is legit. It's when you try to make this seem legitimate by connecting it to the Bible that you fall flat.
this is what I mean. the two of you are too much.
Judas walked with Jesus for three years, what are the two of you doing?
I'm sorry you don't approve of our discussions.
For me, I am walking with Jesus now more than ever. I hope you are as well.
When God gave the universe free will, that included genetic abnormalities such as autism and bipolar illness and wow! gender identity!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Look around you. Nothing is perfect in this life.
And you've got the wrong penguin story.
That is an observation but not an example. I asked for an example concerning your comment about, "...non-binary in plants, insects, animals, birds, humans."Quote:
When God gave the universe free will, that included genetic abnormalities such as autism and bipolar illness and wow! gender identity!
How do you know that bi-polar illness and autism are genetic abnormalities? They might very well be, but I haven't heard that.
we can say the same for Judas. Watch out!Quote:
For me, I am walking with Jesus
One doesn't have free will when it's in one's own nature to sin. Free will belongs to God (and he has a son) and God alone. Iniquity was found in Lucifer (who are his offspring)? You could [almost] say, before the Fall man had free will. After the fall, free will...Quote:
When God gave the universe free will
The Fall happened because mankind WAS GIVEN free will by God. Mankind had a choice but made the wrong one.
A person sins because he has free will and can make a good choice -- but too often ends up making the wrong choice.
“We can say the same for Judas. Watch out!”
And your advice applies to you as well. Correct??
I said your advice applies to you as well. Correct??
What does "walking with Jesus" mean?
Me, more than anybody else.Quote:
And your advice applies to you as well. Correct??
Okay, let us go with that.Quote:
mankind WAS GIVEN free will by God.
Operative word being "Had.Quote:
Mankind had a choice
Wrong choice - According to whom...according to God aka life? God said; "for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die"... an invitation to death?Quote:
But [ Mankind] made the wrong [choice] one.
Or, rather a person sins because they are born in sin. It is in our nature to sin. we can do nothing but sin. All we bring to the table is sin.Quote:
A person sins because he has free will
oppose to sinning? Sorry, that is not good enough. it is not the "we" that is important here. "we" will continue to make bad choices and sin regardless of what "we" want. Paul explains that. You're confused. Man's "good choices" are just that - they belong to man and his (this) world...the World that we all know and love (right).Quote:
and [we] can make a good choice
No one is good...
no longer "ZGood choice."
God's choice is where it's at... no longer "free will as we've known it."
WG: and [we] can make a good choice
waltero: oppose to sinning? Sorry, that is not good enough.
WG: We can choose to steal or not steal. We can choose to murder or not murder. We can choose to hate or not hate. And so on.
We still have a choice to do good or do evil.
That isn't here nor there.Quote:
We still have a choice to do good or do evil.
We Sin."Choosing" to steal or not to steal is still a sin.
So choosing to do something has nothing to do with choice? Not sure I'm following that reasoning.
I choose to stab you for no reason, waltero. Is that a sin?
I choose to smile at you, waltero. Is that a sin?
Yes. What makes you choose to smile at me?Quote:
I choose to smile at you, waltero. Is that a sin?
Can God sin? Can God choose to sin? Could Jesus sin?
One thing is for sure; man has a choice. Man is continually presented with choices. Just as they say - any person can flip out at any given second. Humans can and do change their minds at the drop of a hat.
Being nice to someone is a sin?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Why would I? Perhaps I saw you at McDonald's when you gave a homeless man a few dollar bills. Or perhaps I saw you petting and talking to a dog at the animal shelter.
Yes. If it doesn't come from God it is a sin. Your goodness, your being nice has little to no value.Quote:
Being nice to someone is a sin?
Can God sin? No
Can God choose to sin? No
Could Jesus sin? Yes
That's what I said.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
I totally disagree. So when a Hindu or a Sikh or a Buddhist is nice, that's a sin??? Absolutely not!Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
This is where you go amiss.Quote:
Could Jesus sin? Yes
You are confusing choice with free will.Quote:
One thing is for sure; man has a choice. Man is continually presented with choices. Just as they say - any person can flip out at any given second. Humans can and do change their minds at the drop of a hat. -
That's what I said.
There goes your mind again. Try not to think with your carnal mind, just for a moment, please. When either of you agree or disagree, then you become blind. You don't want to understand because you have already made up your mind.Quote:
I totally disagree.
I'm taking it slow. I haven't come to the point yet, and already you have made up your mind?
Jesus was true man and true God. Remember the stories in the NT when Jesus was tempted to sin, but He didn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Free will says I have a choice.Quote:
You are confusing choice with free will.
This is where you go amiss.Quote:
Could Jesus sin? Yes
You are confusing choice with free will.Quote:
One thing is for sure; man has a choice. Man is continually presented with choices. Just as they say - any person can flip out at any given second. Humans can and do change their minds at the drop of a hat. -
That's what I said.
There goes your mind again. Try not to think with your carnal mind, just for a moment, please. When either of you agree or disagree, then you become blind. You don't want to understand because you have already made up your mind.Quote:
I totally disagree.
I'm taking it slow. I haven't come to the point yet, and already you have made up your mind?
Have it your way. You are correct. Your way is best. Don't bother trying to figure it out...it appears you already have it all figured out (as if anybody is able to figure out God).
Google is your friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Bipolar runs in my father side of the family. At least one person in each of three generations has been medically diagnosed as bipolar.Quote:
How do you know that bi-polar illness and autism are genetic abnormalities? They might very well be, but I haven't heard that.
Autism runs in my husband's father's side of the family. Three generations have been affected. Three males were professionally diagnosed.
Free will gives an individual the opportunity to make choices. If no free will, then no choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
I have free will. I can go to McDonald's and order a chocolate sundae instead of a caramel sundae.
What do you mean when you say that?Quote:
Try not to think with your carnal mind
WG, does God have free will?
I mean for her to hold her horses before she brings in outside forces (like - Hindu or a Sikh or a Buddhis) to block her mind.Quote:
What do you mean when you say that?
It is as plain as day. Before the fall, man had free will. After the fall man no longer has free will. Free will is the power or capacity of humans to make decisions or perform actions independently of any prior event or prior state of the universe.
I don't mean about Wondergirl. I just mean what does thinking with the carnal mind mean for anyone?
It has much to do with the same fact that I don't want to go off onto another tangent.Quote:
thinking with the carnal mind
It is as plain as day. Before the fall, man had free will. After the fall man no longer has free will. Free will is the power or capacity of humans to make decisions or perform actions independently of any prior event or prior state of the universe.
When you say your "choice" you are referring to Lucifer's choice.
As a Christian; when you say "good choice" you are saying God's choice.
God gave. Adam and Eve free will after He created them. They had a choice to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil -- or not. Eve decided the fruit looked good, so she ate of it, then handed some to Adam to munch on. That's how sin came into the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Come on Walter. What does it mean to "think with the carnal mind?" This is not an answer.
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It has much to do with the same fact that I don't want to go off onto another tangent.
That's the problem with this forum and the two of you. You are simply looking for an argument. I'd like to stay on subject. is that ok? Soon (as always) the two of you will go off half-blistered on an entirely different tangent.
That's right. Free will was a thing before the event. There is no more free will. We have already chosen. The choice was death. Now we are in the Devil's playground...sin makes the choice for us, sin has already made the choice for us. Whether you know it or not, sin is directing your choice...and we will always choose sin unless the intervention of God.Quote:
God gave. Adam and Eve free will after He created them
Not true. We have free will. We can make choices.Quote:
After the fall man no longer has free will. Free will is the power or capacity of humans to make decisions or perform actions independently of any prior event or prior state of the universe.
Don't you understand? We have already made our choice... Adam and Eve made the choice for us.
What? You didn't get a say? Sin already made that choice for you.
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