You mean like you are doing now?
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You mean like you are doing now?
Okay. I'm finished here. Best wishes.
You're a difficult person to exchange with. You will not answer serious questions, you make assertions for which you have no support, and you raise objections that strike me as silly, so it's generally, for me, an exercise in frustration. We probably do better speaking with others. Best wishes to you as well.
The way you two snipe at each other all the time is the main reason I'm not on here more often.
I'm sure it can be frustrating, and I'm also sure I do contribute to it. Trying to carry on a discussion of that sort is a new experience for me.
Ditto!Quote:
The way you two snipe at each other all the time is the main reason I'm not on here more often.
@WG
Post #45If you could please show me where you'd like to interject this in either of these posts; 42, 43, 44? I honestly Don't understand what the question is, or if it is even a question.Quote:
What about unconditional love? Jesus loved, and still loves, us so we can love each other.
We love because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19
If it is not a question, maybe you could explain it better by showing me where you'd like to interject God's - "unconditional love," into the Bible.
P.S. I understand It is sometimes hard to understand me. If you'd be willing to help me with proper sentence structuring?
Maybe you could rewrite what it is I am trying to say, in a proper format....missing or misplaced punctuations, etc.
I'd say there are quite a number of places. John 3:16, for instance, certainly seems to use "love" in an unconditional sense. The key point, for me, is not to equate "love" with "acceptance". God does not unconditionally accept people. It is a different meaning in a number of ways.Quote:
If it is not a question, maybe you could explain it better by showing me where you'd like to interject God's - "unconditional love," into the Bible.
It might be good if everybody defines their terms. What does "accept" mean? What exactly does "love" mean, and what does "unconditional" mean? In the context of Jesus and salvation, it's important to all be talking about the same thing.
Good point.
1. Accept. To welcome into one's presence, especially in the sense of God receiving man into fellowship with him.
2. Love. To do what is in the best interest of the object of my love.
3. Unconditional. Without preconditions.
1. Accept. To welcome into one's presence, especially in the sense of God receiving man into fellowship with him.
John 6:37040
2. Love. To do what is in the best interest of the object of my love.
John 3:16 obviously
3. Unconditional. Without preconditions.
Romans 10:12
Wonderful passage! The one who comes to Christ will indeed be accepted.Quote:
John 6:37040
Agree that it is an obvious choice.Quote:
John 3:16 obviously
Not sure what your point is there, but verse 12 should certainly be read in context with verses 11 and 13.Quote:
Romans 10:12
Romans 10:12
Not sure what your point is there, but verse 12 should certainly be read in context with verses 11 and 13.
Where do those say God's love is conditional?
I have not contended that God's love is conditional. I have said that God's acceptance is conditional.
Quote:
Post 87. John 3:16, for instance, certainly seems to use "love" in an unconditional sense. The key point, for me, is not to equate "love" with "acceptance". God does not unconditionally accept people.
What (Who?) doesn't He accept?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I would prefer not to discuss this with you for reasons discussed many times in the past. If you will read your Bible, you will readily find the answer. For that matter, just read the passages listed by DW.
No mention of who isn't accepted and why.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
One must call on His name to be accepted, saved. Correct? What if that person has never heard of Him?
It requires a little bit of unbiased thinking. Thankfully, only a little bit.
It is pointed out no fewer than six times here for those willing to read and think just a little bit.
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
And those who are unable to come to Him? -- are mentally ill? Have Down's syndrome? Are autistic? Have dementia?
Why do you think they cannot come to Him? Seems to be rather a prejudiced perspective. But I am thankful that you can see the necessity of coming to Him, which is to say "believing in Him".
Luke 18. And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, “Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”
And those who are unable to come to Him? -- are mentally ill? Have Down's syndrome? Are autistic? Have dementia?
That's when we as believers get involved.
Believers are to be involved with everyone.
Yes, but those populations have special needs that demand special handling.
I would agree with that, but I'd add that most people are part of a "special needs" group. Drug addicts, single moms, military vets, and so many others. We all, I suppose, have special needs.
And one can't merely spout off Bible verses.
I don't know of anyone who has advocated for that. At the drug rehab center, we provide housing, clothing, food, friendship, and counseling. We also "spout off Bible verses", especially the ones about Jesus. On the other had, we cannot replace the Bible with our own personal preferences and ideas.
That's not what I mean. Merely preaching at people doesn't work. We must get involved with them and become part of their lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You missed this. "At the drug rehab center, we provide housing, clothing, food, friendship, and counseling. We also "spout off Bible verses", especially the ones about Jesus. On the other had, we cannot replace the Bible with our own personal preferences and ideas."
I could add that crisis pregnancy centers do a great job of getting involved and meeting needs. Samaritan's Purse does a similarly great job of doing that very thing, and yet they continue to "spout Bible verses". Sounds a lot like the first century church.
Certainly they are NOT "spouting Bible verses"! Horrors! The worst kind of "mission work"!
It is the foundation of the ONLY genuine kind of mission work. To not tell people about the teachings of the Bible is, from the Christian perspective, criminal.
There's a way to do that without "spouting"!!! And oh the stories I've heard from those who were disrespected in that wayQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I would agree that it is possible to do that. It is as great an error as the person who basically ignores the parts of the Bible that don't agree with her/his own personal ideas.
Reminds me of Jonathan Edwards' sermon, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" -- an attempt to teach his listeners about the horrors of Hell, the dangers of sin, and the terrors of being lost. Or a street preacher's ravings and threats, tossing specially chosen (negative) Bible verses at the bystanders.
Perfect illustration of this. “The person who basically ignores the parts of the Bible that don’t agree with his/her own personal ideas.”
No one is posting that parts of the Bible don't agree with that person's personal ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Christians don't (and definitely shouldn't!) convert unbelievers by threatening hellfire.
Edwards did. Finney did. Graham did. Paul did. Peter did. Many others did as well.
They were wrong.
It's a power-grabbing threat. Like, "If you do that one more time, I'm going to _____."
Sorry. I’ll go with that group rather than you.
And your benefit from it?
I’ll be in agreement with apostles.
Spreading fear among your listeners. Was that your m.o. with your own children and schoolchildren?
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