Ask Me Help Desk - Does Satan really exist?

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Originally Posted by waltero

It's very important that we learn to read our thoughts as a result of knowing our Bibles, not learning from our Bibles as a result of what we have found in the world.

I have no idea what this means.

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Originally Posted by waltero

Might I suggest; try and read the Bible as you would any other story...maybe even as a child [trying] to read a children's storybook.

Yes! That's why the allegory idea works so well as we read stories in the Bible.

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Where is that mountain Jesus and Satan were on to see all over the Earth?

You don't think Satan is capable of projecting an image of the whole world? It says he "showed" him these things, it doesn't say they could see them all from where they were standing. I can look at anywhere on the planet with a few motions of my fingers. Do we really suppose a supernatural being like Satan can't do the same?

Good observation.

"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world."

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I have no idea what this means

I have re-iterated. I know I should not edit while posting. I was doing it all the while not knowing there was any response...as you can look at the post again and see no indication of it being edited.

The two of you have gone through all this before...many, many times before.

Might I suggest; try and read the Bible as you would any other story...maybe even as a child [trying] to read a children's storybook.

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Yes. That's why the allegory idea works so well as we read stories in the Bible.

It's very important that we learn to read our thoughts as a result of knowing our Bibles, not learning from our Bibles as a result of what we have read in our thoughts...(@WG)by "your idea" of thinking, you seem to be falling right into it...and you still don't understand?

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maybe even as a child [trying] to read a children's storybook.

To have child-like faith can be a good thing, but we should never have child-like understanding.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

To have child-like faith can be a good thing, but we should never have child-like understanding.

What understanding should we, of various temperaments and personalities and mental handicaps and illnesses, have?

Adult understanding. Well informed understanding. Unprejudiced understanding. Truthful understanding.

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

Terrific response!

And we get that adult understanding how?

You can start here.

1. Put away childish thinking.
2. Make truth your goal.
3. Evidence must come first, and conclusions afterward.
4. "Study to show yourself approved."

Who can you trust to be a good Christian guide(s) in your life? How do you decide?

I trust the Bible enlightened by the Holy Spirit. I don't "trust" any person completely. We are all subject to some degree of error. As to who I listen to, I look for people who are faithful to the Bible and who consistently desire to elevate the name of Jesus and make him glorious.

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try and read the Bible as you would any other book
To have child-like faith can be a good thing, but we should never have child-like understanding.

Allow me to put it another way; Maybe try reading the Bible [as a Child of God] would read any other book...having a child of God-like understanding. Putting off (the exact opposite); making truth your goal, and seeking evidence to come forth, using that to make conclusions afterward, using it as a Study guide to show thyself approved unto God.

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word.

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Maybe try reading the Bible [as a Child of God] would read any other book

I'm not sure what you mean with this. The Bible is not like "any other book". I have read the Bible, and especially the NT, many, many times. My Bible is highlighted in many places, and I have put hundreds of personal notes in it. I pray before I read it. All other books are subject to the truth of the Bible. So I can't read the Bible like "any other book", can I? Help me understand your meaning.

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Originally Posted by waltero

making truth your goal, and seeking evidence to come forth, using that to make conclusions afterward, using it as a Study guide to show thyself approved unto God.

My truth may not be your truth or my pastor's truth. Seeking evidence for what? Evidence to prove MY truth? And I AM approved by God!

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My truth may not be your truth or my pastor's truth.

That is true of opinions. It is, by definition, certainly not true of truth.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That is true of opinions. It is, by definition, certainly not true of truth.

As Pilate once said, "What is Truth?"

So you are siding with Pilate rather than Jesus who said HE was the truth.

It's just an unbelievably poor argument to suggest that there are many truths. I was surprised to see you go down that road. It is too, too easy to refute.

Please see below.

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In logic, the law of non-contradiction (LNC) (also known as the law of contradiction, principle of non-contradiction (PNC), or the principle of contradiction) states that contradictory propositions cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time, e. g. the two propositions "p is the case" and "p is not the case" are mutually exclusive.

Perhaps you can give us an example of a situation where there are contradictory/nonagreeing propositions that are all true?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Perhaps you can give us an example of a situation where there are contradictory/nonagreeing propositions that are all true?

Your idea of Hell and my idea of Hell. Your idea of Heaven and my idea of Heaven.

Nope. Both of our ideas cannot be true. So either one or both of us is wrong, and one or neither of us is correct. In other words, either hell is an eternal place of fiery horror or it's not. You are referring to opinions.

Surely you are smarter than what you are presently displaying. This is grade school stuff.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Nope. Both of our ideas cannot be true.

Then, since you're the male person, you must be correct and are speaking truth.

And on that absurd note of desperation by you, we can conclude this silliness.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

And on that absurd note of desperation by you, we can conclude this silliness.

But that's what you're thinking. I know how you guys are.

And now you know what someone is thinking. Golly-gee whiz.

Hey, I've been married to a man for 56 years! I know stuff, lots of stuff!

How is the hubster doing? I know he went through a rough patch a while back.

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we should never have child-like understanding.

This might have something to do with what "you're" talking about...this being your [sole] point of view, on what is (Scripture) being conveyed.

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It's very important that we learn to read our thoughts as a result of knowing our Bibles, not learning from our Bibles as a result of what we have read in our thoughts

Do you see what you have done? "we should never have child-like understanding." And again; "All other books are subject to the truth of the Bible."What other books?

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The Bible is not like "any other book

The Bible is not like any other blood because It is not just a book, it is a life. it takes on a life of its own.

One thing we are missing; Our God and Father, we pray for your help, as we [should] routinely because we actually believe ourselves to be tremendously in need of it both to be able to speak and to listen, certainly to understand, to obey your Word, to live in the light of its truth. And so, beyond the voice of a mere man, may we hear from you, the living God, for it is to you alone we listen and in the name of your Son we pray. Amen. I don't know where TV players or text prayers end up...My understanding is not important...Simply having the belief in prayer, is good enough for me.

Never [to] have a child-like understanding - does not a child of God make...it sure makes a fine teacher...I mean look at the Pharisees. The "Bible" is not your life, it is not your thoughts.

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Do you see what you have done? "we should never have child-like understanding." And again; "All other books are subject to the truth of the Bible."What other books?

All other books would mean...all other books.

I agree completely with your prayer.

If you have the understanding of a six year old (child), then you are in trouble. Our trust is to be childlike, but to suggest that our understanding of God and the truth of the Bible is to be on the level of what a child can understand is completely unbiblical. Any reading of Hebrews or Romans can illustrate that.

All God wants from us is to love one another, to love and take care of even the unlovable.

You are wrong. Read Hebrews 11:6, and then read Romans 3.

"Without faith it is impossible to please God, for those who come to Him must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

You're hung up on the Law.

Faith begets love. Love one another.

I didn't realize Hebrews 11 was in the Old Testament ("the Law"). Likewise Romans 3. They're as plain as can be.

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I didn't realize Hebrews 11 was in the Old Testament ("the Law"). Likewise Romans 3. They're as plain as can be.

Well stated.

We are certainly called to love one another, and loving those in the most need is great, but to say that it's all God wants from us does not align with the Bible. And to suggest that faith amounts to being hung up on the law is kind of wild.

DW, in your view, what constitutes the "heart" in NT teaching? When Proverbs tells us to "guard your heart", what does "heart" mean there? I'm in the process of reading Witness Nee's description of the heart, but he can get so wordy and technical that I get lost in the weeds.

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Originally Posted by dwashbur

I didn't realize Hebrews 11 was in the Old Testament ("the Law"). Likewise Romans 3. They're as plain as can be.

JL's presentation is full of legalese and very off-putting.

Show, don't tell.

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Read Hebrews 11:6, and then read Romans 3.

"Without faith it is impossible to please God, for those who come to Him must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

How is that "full of legalese" and "off-putting"?

JL's presentation is full of legalese and very off-putting.

I haven't made a "presentation" that I know of. Still, what amounts to "legalese" and is "off-putting"?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I haven't made a "presentation" that I know of. Still, what amounts to "legalese" and is "off-putting"?

Orders. You're full of orders. No wiggle room allowed.

I don't think God has any wiggle room. At the risk of being accused of being legalistic, I would remind you of what Jesus said. “Go in by the narrow gate. For the wide gate has a broad road which leads to disaster and there are many people going that way. The narrow gate and the hard road lead out into life and only a few are finding it.” God's way is a good way. I became a Christian more than 45 years ago and have never considered turning aside from it, but it has required me to make to some hard decisions. God does not give us multiple options to come to him. Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father but by me."

Another question for DW. Which Bible translations do you prefer?

And in case you missed this one, "DW, in your view, what constitutes the "heart" in NT teaching? When Proverbs tells us to "guard your heart", what does "heart" mean there? I'm in the process of reading Witness Nee's description of the heart, but he can get so wordy and technical that I get lost in the weeds."

I'm preaching on the heart Sunday and am not super clear on how to describe it.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I don't think God has any wiggle room.

Oh, that's right. Only 683 people are going to heaven. No Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc.