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  • Jul 22, 2009, 04:08 AM
    N0help4u
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    (Genesis 5:1-29) speaks of the generations of Adam directed to Noah. And of course Noah had three sons, Shem, Japheth and Ham (Genesis 5:32) This record family lineage from Adam spoke "only of his son Seth.." This goes to Noah generation (Genesis 6:9-10) continues in family lineage with Shem Japheth and Ham. We know at this time that God looked upon the earth and found it corrupted. God said all flesh was corrupted and was corrupting Noah's way of a perfect generation (Genesis 6:9 Genesis 6:12)

    Then came the flood... Up to this point we knew Cain had been sent away and we know (God told satan refer: (Genesis 3:15) from the beginning that HE would put enmity between (satan's seed/spirit of evil) and (Eve's seed/spirit of God) So we know we have the division of good and evil that does exist.

    However we do know that (Cain /seed or spirit of satan) was the known as the first murderer from the beginning, and his generation is spoken of in (John 8:44)
    AND Satan's seed/evil spirit is also spoken in the JEWS actions refer: (Matthew 23:35-36) when Zacharias, who is John the Baptist father, and son of Barachias, was slain by the JEWS between the altar and temple.

    *************

    To remain on track, continue in the generation after the flood of Naoh (Genesis 10:1-32) which offers the divided nations on earth, known by generation in their nations. In the middle of this family lineage and noted in (Genesis 10:5) you will find the "Gentile generation" that began with Ham (Genesis 10:20) that would have us find importance in language spoken, their countries, and nations. This is a very important description if you would understand the heritage of countries, nations and language that God will further have written in the Word to destinguish each one from another.





    I draw the importance on Gentiles because I trust you could better understand the refer of the Bible saying Gentiles were cut off and need grafted back in.
    ( It is only in the kingdom of grace that such a process, contracy to nation, can this be sucessful) Ham's son was cursed by Noah (Genesis 9:25) because Ham saw the nakedness of his father. (Genesis 9:22) One can only understand the truth of what is written in this by reference of KJV in translation or meaning in uncovered his father's nakedness. (Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.. KJV)

    Ham actually had a son by his mother, who was his fourth son, Canaan that Noah cursed and made a servant to Shem (Genesis9:25-26 ) which was mentioned in an odd manner, showing Noah's sons that went forth from the ark, and then mentioned oddly among those sons is Ham's fourth son with distincive difference in being Ham's son . (Genesis 9:18)

    **************

    (Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.) These are the generations of Shem (Genesis 11:10)

    Through Noah's son Shem, came the generations of Terah, and Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot. Then long after the beginning generation of Jocob, who is the son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham (Genesis25:26) God changed Jocob's name to Israel (Genesis 32:28) The 12 Tribes of Israel are of Jacob (Genesis 49:28)


    All of this information as studied can show direction and distinguish the House of David as it continues. However I still find many questions in other human life that comes in contact with the Israelites. Where did they come from, the Egyptians, the Romans?

    Such as Paul's hertiage as a JEW. He spoke of being born in Tarsus , a city in Cilicia, maritime province in the southeast of Asia Minor, boarding on Pamphylia in the west, Lycaonia and Cappadocia in the north and Syria in the east.

    Tarsus was a major city in Cilicia and the birthplace and early home of Paul.( Acts 9:11; 21:39; 22:3) Even in the flourishing period of Greek history it was an important city. In the Roman civil wars, it sided with Caesar and on the occasion of a visit from him its name changed to Juliopolis. Augustus made it a free city. Its was renowned as a place of education under the early Roman emperors. Strabo compares it in this respect to Athens and Alexandria. Tarsus also was a place of much commerce. It was situated in a wild and fertile plain on the banks of the Cydnus

    Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, [and] taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

    Gamalie was a Pharisee and celebrated doctor of the law, who gave prudent worldly advice in the Sanhedrin respecting the treatment of the followers of Jesus of Nazareth. Acts 5:34 (A.D.29.) We learn from Acts 22:3 that he was the preceptor of Paul. He is generally identified with the very celebrated Jewish doctor Gamaliel, grandson of Hillel, and who is referred to as authority in the Jewish Mishna.

    Act 6:9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.

    The Libertines denotes Jews (according to Philo) who had been made captives of the Romans under Pompey but were afterwards set free; and who although they had fixed their abode in Rome, had built at their own expense a synagogue at Jerusalem which they frequented when in that city, The name Libertines adhered to them to distinguish them from free born Jews who had subsequently taken up their residence at Rome. Evidence seems to have been discovered of the existence of a "synagogue of the Libertines" at Pompeii.

    EXACTLY what I am saying so that DOES prove that the gentiles were cut off instead of
    Another people being here on earth along with Adam and Eve. I do not notice any proof that there were others that were not offsorings of Adam and Eve in what you said.
  • Jul 22, 2009, 07:06 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u View Post
    EXACTLY what I am saying so that DOES prove that the gentiles were cut off instead of
    another people being here on earth along with Adam and Eve. I do not notice any proof that there were others that were not offsorings of Adam and Eve in what you said.

    There are to many unanswered questions to suggest either way. (Genesis 2:11) speaks of the first. Does this mean the first man which is Adam was place in this area? Possibly I think it could.. (Genesis 2:4) suggests "these" noted to plural, are the generations. It is possible the males and females created on the sixth day are being placed in locations of land, starting with first Adam and all that his lineage would mean to us? What would you say is possible?

    What I have gathered in respect to what is written in evidence of Adam and Eve is that the flood of Noah shows 8 souls were saved. (confirmed) as being 8 souls as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (1 Peter 3:20)

    Whether there were or were not others men and woman in the beginning, God had washed the path clean for the 8 souls. Would you agree?

    Whether these 8 souls were all considered Seth's lineage or ancestry from Adam is questionable, because it is not told from where the wives came.

    What can be distinguished is that 2 of the souls did become beguiled by evil, and this confirms the begotten man of flesh that we all are, must be begotten again in Christ to live righteously unto life eternal.

    The lineage of the Israelites is easily followed in scripture, and the Gentiles are distinguished. But there are questions in how the Kenite exists from which was the tribe Moses wife was said to have come from.

    If you do a search on Kenite (7014) translated from hebrew word "Qayin" it means eldest son of Adam and Eve and the first murderer having murdered his brother Abel.. AND the tribe from which the father-in-law of Moses was a member and which lived in the area between southern Palestine and the mountains of Sinai..

    How is this possible?

    This would be why Aaron was against Moses being married to her.

    So I don't suggest that we can fully know all the truth of man and their lineage except that the Israelite tribes would distinguish the lineage of David (Key of David) being the hertiage of Christ in HIS (supposed father Joseph) .. presenting Jesus " King of Kings "
    And perhap to much importance is given to ourselves as man, as we guess at where we came from. We instead should teach the more important facts and understanding of Jesus on earth as man and how God's plan was to send us HIS son. (The Key of David)
  • Jul 22, 2009, 07:21 AM
    N0help4u

    To me it wouldn't make sense that more than Adam and Eve were created
    I posted this but doesn't seem like anybody has ran across it yet.

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ve-373109.html
  • Jul 22, 2009, 08:22 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:
    Sorry had not read that... And it is not exact as to what I have said. The scripture verse (Genesis 1:27) will always be (So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them) The meaning of this is showing the reference of God's image of righteousness which God created us to be, and God is who created male and female.

    Scripture later goes on to say in (Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day)

    Later again scripture does say the first (Genesis 2:11) which was a location of land in that was destinguished as location of the first man was place or given. And I trust this was Adam placed in the garden of Eden. And it does continue with Adam and Eve there on.

    However my last posting will show what I accept as being confirmed and what can only be presumptively suggested. Who is to say the second male was not placed in a second location? What was important is the first in which the Key of David would come and in which satan obviously would first beguilded and try to corrupt the hertiage of Jesus.
  • Jul 22, 2009, 11:20 AM
    0EntitY

    (Genesis 1:27) will always be (So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them)

    You can do this too. Just get an image of something you want to create like a rainbow that speaks or something. See it? This is what I mean. I read something one way and sure enough there will be others who agree it says this or that or something else.
  • Jul 22, 2009, 11:24 AM
    N0help4u
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    my last posting will show what I accept as being confirmed and what can only be presumptively suggested. Who is to say the second male was not placed in a second location? What was important is the first in which the Key of David would come and in which satan obviously would first beguilded and try to corrupt the hertiage of Jesus.

    I can not follow ''my last posting will show what I accept as being confirmed and what can only be presumptively suggested'' sounds like a contradition.
    I take Genesis 2 as reaffirming Genesis one and Adam is that man.
    If there were 2 or more men or two or more women it does not add up with the rest of scripture.
  • Jul 22, 2009, 10:14 PM
    arcura
    N0help4u,
    Yes, I agree that it does not add up to what Scripture says.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Jul 23, 2009, 07:31 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u View Post
    I can not follow ''my last posting will show what I accept as being confirmed and what can only be presumptively suggested'' sounds like a contradition.
    I take Genesis 2 as reaffirming Genesis one and Adam is that man.
    If there were 2 or more men or two or more women it does not add up with the rest of scripture.

    Could you understand it better if you were to see the name Adam as meaning male human being.

    Adam is reference throughtout scripture with 3 identies

    1> 201 ( human being) this is not a name but just that human man as in male = adam
    2> 221 (first man) the first located by land and "red" meaning perhaps skin color or blood (natural man)
    3> 76 ( red earth) human being made by the red earth of his location, the first man of parent in a whole human family

    We see throughtout scripture that the chosen people Israelites(nation, generation of family) came in contact with others not of their own generations or nation. Does this suggest that there was more Adam's = human being that would be created by God?

    I agree that this one human man placed in the garden was given a wife so he was not alone. And I acknowledge this wife to be name by this human being, as Eve the mother of all living. Because it would be through her generations and nation of this family, it is written: For as in (Adam 76) all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
  • Jul 23, 2009, 08:04 AM
    N0help4u

    Throughout scripture people and nations got divided, made into new nations and so forth but they are trace back to Adam and Eve as the first parents.
  • Jul 23, 2009, 02:11 PM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u View Post
    Throughout scripture people and nations got divided, made into new nations and so forth but they are trace back to Adam and Eve as the first parents.

    I have to disagree and name just a few in question. If you can tell me how they trace back to Adam and Eve thr Seth as the Israelites .. please do..

    Rephaims (Isa 17:5 - 1 Ch 14:9) also known as gaints

    Moabites
    Ashdodites
    Phoenicians
    Ammonites
    Zamzummims


    And this does not include what tends to be Kenites who trace back to Cain, and that would appear to be impossible because of the flood. (Moses wife and father's tribe)

    The Canaanites would trace back to Canaan which was Ham's 4th son given birth through the nukeness of Noah's wife, and he was cursed by Noah (Genesis 9:22)

    In scripture (Genesis 12:1-3) God told Abraham to leave his kindred, and go out of the country from his father. The promise to make him a great nation and increase his seed to that compared to the dust of the earth. God also said I will bless them that bless you and curse those that curse you. Making all families of the earth blessed. So would you think family other then his kindred are other then Adam to Seth lineage?
  • Jul 23, 2009, 04:01 PM
    N0help4u

    Okay then when the flood happened were all these people that you are asking about here before and after the flood?

    Moabites trace back to Lot I do believe.
    I am not sure of the others
    So where do you say they originate back to?

    Also
    With your theory of more than Adam and Eve in the beginning, after Noahs ark there were only the few on the ark left so how did these others in Genesis 1 continue to repopulate the nations if only a few were left after the flood?

    And what do you do with all the verses like this?
    Acts 17:26, Paul states that the God Who made the world 'hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.
    http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/descendants.htm


    I'll explain how I believe the giants were here some other time.
  • Jul 23, 2009, 09:38 PM
    arcura
    sndbay,
    I have to agree with noHelp4u.
    Adam and Eve are the first parents of the human race.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Jul 23, 2009, 11:47 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u View Post
    Okay then when the flood happened were all these people that you are asking about here before and after the flood?

    Moabites trace back to Lot I do believe.
    I am not sure of the others
    so where do you say they originate back to?

    Also
    with your theory of more than Adam and Eve in the beginning, after Noahs ark there were only the few on the ark left so how did these others in Genesis 1 continue to repopulate the nations if only a few were left after the flood?

    And what do you do with all the verses like this?
    Acts 17:26, Paul states that the God Who made the world 'hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.
    BIBLE STUDY MANUALS: ADAM AND EVE'S DESCENDANTS


    I'll explain how I believe the giants were here some other time.

    You want to know how a few people repopulated the Earth. No sex education here but there were no television sets then. Look at the story of the Israelites. From 70 who went down to Egypt with Jacob up to 3,500,000 moved out 430 years later. It isn't a very long stretch to see how the Earth was repopulated.

    In my own life time the population of my nation has gone from 6,000,000 to 22,000,000, the population of the world has gone from 3 Billion to over 6 Billion. If World population doubles every 50 years how many generations does it take? In 20 generations of people just having two children and we know they had many more, you get to six million, so a couple of thousand years and you are out of space on the planet. Just as well we have wars and pestilence

    Now Lot was Abraham's cousin and so he traces back to Noah through that line
  • Jul 24, 2009, 03:06 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u View Post
    Okay then when the flood happened were all these people that you are asking about here before and after the flood?

    Moabites trace back to Lot I do believe.
    I am not sure of the others
    so where do you say they originate back to?

    Also
    with your theory of more than Adam and Eve in the beginning, after Noahs ark there were only the few on the ark left so how did these others in Genesis 1 continue to repopulate the nations if only a few were left after the flood?

    All Good Questions... The facts are not clear on when or where these came from. However I know Cain's lineage was before the flood, and yet there are Kenites that are shown in connection to Moses.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    Through Noah's son Shem, came the generations of Terah, and Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot. Then long after the beginning generation of Jocob, who is the son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham (Genesis25:26) God changed Jocob's name to Israel (Genesis 32:28) The 12 Tribes of Israel are of Jacob (Genesis 49:28)

    So we know facts concerning the Irsaelites from Adam.. Seth...continued to Noah.. then Shem.

    And we know facts concerning the Gentiles from Adam.. Seth..continued to Noah.. then Ham.

    Noah's third known son was Japheth who according to scripture (Genesis 9:2) Japheth would remain within the tents of Shem with the promise in being enlarged.

    Theses generation from Adam are shown confirmed in (1 Ch 1:1-4) and scriture does go on to confirm each lineage of Noah's 3 son.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u View Post

    And what do you do with all the verses like this?
    Acts 17:26, Paul states that the God Who made the world 'hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.

    I explained that on your other thread under religious discussion. The idea of one blood would mean human or natural blood.(begotton of man)

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u View Post

    I'll explain how I believe the giants were here some other time.

    No need they are a good example of what was not from Adam Seth or Noah.. I realize the fallen angels had everything to do with the gaints known as Rephaims

    I also think the Ammonites might be descended from Lot through Ben-ammi and were mentioned in Deu 2:20 which also reference the Zamzummims. Yet they may be part of the Rephaims or gaints descendants. Not sure...
  • Jul 24, 2009, 03:17 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by arcura View Post
    sndbay,
    I have to agree with noHelp4u.
    Adam and Eve are the first parents of the human race.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred

    Fred, I could almost agree with it, if the Ashdodites Phoenicians Ammonites Zamzummims are not considered human race.

    From what lineage did the Egyptians pagan's come?
  • Jul 24, 2009, 03:55 AM
    N0help4u
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    You want to know how a few people repopulated the Earth. No sex education here but there were no television sets then. Look at the story of the Israelites. from 70 who went down to Egypt with Jacob up to 3,500,000 moved out 430 years later. It isn't a very long stretch to see how the Earth was repopulated.

    In my own life time the population of my nation has gone from 6,000,000 to 22,000,000, the population of the world has gone from 3 Billion to over 6 Billion. If World population doubles every 50 years how many generations does it take? in 20 generations of people just having two children and we know they had many more, you get to six million, so a couple of thousand years and you are out of space on the planet. just as well we have wars and pestilence

    Now Lot was Abraham's cousin and so he traces back to Noah through that line

    NO Paraclete
    That is not what I am saying
    Sndby says that not all decended from Adam and Eve. That there were other nations or whatever. I want to know where all the different nations came from before and after the flood if we didn't decend from Adam and Eve
  • Jul 24, 2009, 03:59 AM
    N0help4u
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    I explained that on your other thread under religious discussion. The idea of one blood would mean human or natural blood.(begotton of man)

    And I explained how ''OTHER blood" would not have had the curse of Adam and Eve

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    COLOR="indigo"]No need they are a good example of what was not from Adam Seth or Noah.. I realize the fallen angels had everything to do with the gaints known as Rephaims

    AGREED

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    I also think the Ammonites might be descended from Lot through Ben-ammi and were mentioned in Deu 2:20 which also reference the Zamzummims. Yet they may be part of the Rephaims or gaints descendants. Not sure...


    AGREED
  • Jul 24, 2009, 04:20 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u View Post
    And I explained how ''OTHER blood" would not have had the curse of Adam and Eve

    Other blood? That is what kind of blood, other then human? Even animals have red blood..

    Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

    Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
  • Jul 24, 2009, 04:25 AM
    N0help4u

    .
    YOu know what I mean!
    If there were more than Adam and Eve and they did not sin then their blood line could not have been under the curse. By other blood as opposed to one blood as you are suggesting I mean they would have a different heritage from Adam and Eve and not under the curse.
  • Jul 24, 2009, 09:22 PM
    arcura
    sndbay,
    I have no idea from where the Egyptians came unless there were from Ham.
    P{eace and kindness,
    Fred.
  • Jul 25, 2009, 05:13 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by arcura View Post
    sndbay,
    I have no idea from where the Egyptians came unless there were from Ham.
    P{eace and kindness,
    Fred.

    Fred, your honesty is a valued feature in truth.

    When God sent Abraham out from his kindred and his father's house we are told in scripture he headed into the land of Canaan refer: (Genesis 12:5)
    Genesis 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
    **********

    Canaan was the (lowland), relative to Ham and the progenitor of Phoemicians. And various nations who were located in the seacoat of Palestine. Canaan was the descendants called Canaanites, The Poeni or Phoenicia. (they spoke hebrew tongue)
    In (Zeph 2:5) the southern area was relative to the Cherethites, who were Gentiles, and again showing the lineage to Ham. (remember these were to be servants to the lineage to the house of David because of the curse Noah issued to Ham's son Canaan )

    In the journey Abraham passed through Sichem to a plain known as Moreh where the Canaanites were refer: (Genesis 12:6)

    East was Bethel = Border of the tribe of Benjamin south of Judah.
    West Hai was the city of Ammonites.
    South was Egypt where the Egyptains were, and the land had it's name known by the son of Ham , Mizraim.

    Keep in mind 2 tribes (Benjamin and Judah) were divided from the 10 tribe known as Israelites.

    Take note to refer: Deu 2:20-23 That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead: As he did to the children of Esau, which dwelt in Seir, when he destroyed the Horims from before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead even unto this day: And the Avims which dwelt in Hazerim, [even] unto Azzah, the Caphtorims, which came forth out of Caphtor, destroyed them, and dwelt in their stead.)
  • Jul 25, 2009, 10:16 PM
    arcura
    sndbay, Thanks much for putting that together so understandably.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Jul 26, 2009, 04:05 PM
    paraclete
    Fred can you understand that, it confuses the timelines talking about two of the tribes in the same context as Abraham
  • Jul 26, 2009, 10:29 PM
    arcura
    paraclete,
    Yes, I can.
    But it is clear to me that several different peoples came from the lineage of Abraham.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Jul 27, 2009, 05:03 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by arcura View Post
    But it is clear to me that several different peoples came from the lineage of Abraham.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred

    What is meant when you speak of different people? and what different people? Do you mean later in years when David's weakness was in strange women?

    Abraham's lineage was from the generations of Shem. These would be God's chosen people, Israelites.

    Post #67

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    (Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.) These are the generations of Shem (Genesis 11:10)

    Through Noah's son Shem, came the generations of Terah, and Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot. Then long after continued the generation of Jacob, who is the son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham (Genesis25:26) God changed Jocob's name to Israel (Genesis 32:28) The 12 Tribes of Israel are of Jacob (Genesis 49:28)

    .

  • Jul 27, 2009, 09:17 PM
    arcura
    sndbay,
    The lineage of Abraham is several thousand years long and complex with many marriages.
    {Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Jul 27, 2009, 09:41 PM
    N0help4u

    Yeah he had at least two different lineages from Hagar and Sara.
  • Jul 27, 2009, 10:25 PM
    arcura
    N0help4u,
    Yes that is true, plus those farther down the line from those two women.
    Fred
  • Jul 28, 2009, 03:47 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u View Post
    yeah he had at least two different lineages from Hagar and Sara.

    Yep the generations of Ishmael from the maid Hagar and Abraham (Genesis 25:12)


    Genesis 25:16 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.
  • Jul 28, 2009, 05:27 AM
    Triund
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    Yep the generations of Ishmael from the maid Hagar and Abraham (Genesis 25:12)


    Genesis 25:16 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.

    Biblical Historian tell us that the lineage of Ishmael are Muslims.
  • Jul 28, 2009, 06:47 PM
    arcura
    Triund,
    You are right although Ishmael was a son of Abraham
    Fred
  • Jul 29, 2009, 06:11 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Triund View Post
    Biblical Historian tell us that the lineage of Ishmael are Muslims.

    I trust it was his 7th son, Dumah who is credited as being the founder of the Ishmaelite.
    The sons were:

    Ishmael
    Nebajoth (people called Nabateans)
    Kedar
    Adbeel
    Mibsam (family Simeon)
    Mishma
    Dumah (founder of Ishmaelite)
    Massa
    Hador
    Tema
    Jetur
    Naphish
    Kedemah

    Please tell us more of the lineage if you will and please refer: scripture.
  • Jul 29, 2009, 07:25 AM
    Triund
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sndbay View Post
    I trust it was his 7th son, Dumah who is credited as being the founder of the Ishmaelite.
    The sons were:

    Ishmael
    Nebajoth (people called Nabateans)
    Kedar
    Adbeel
    Mibsam (family Simeon)
    Mishma
    Dumah (founder of Ishmaelite)
    Massa
    Hador
    Tema
    Jetur
    Naphish
    Kedemah

    Please tell us more of the lineage if you will and please refer: scripture.

    Thanks for making it more specific. I had come to know about this from my Uncle. He is a well read man. I did not go in detail with him on this.

    Today whatever we know about the Bible and Jesus is also from some historians who have been very faithful and true to our Lord God and brought the facts to people. There is also lot of bluff around, but all historians are not crooks. About a decade ago there was a main article in Time Magazine on Abraham as father of Jews, Christians and Muslims. Wish I had preserved that magazine. I wonder if anybody has read that article.
  • Jul 29, 2009, 10:43 AM
    sndbay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Triund View Post
    Thanks for making it more specific. I had come to know about this from my Uncle. He is a well read man. I did not go in detail with him on this.

    I find it all interesting, and enjoy more in depth study on the nations, tribes, and descendant of Adam and Eve.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Triund View Post
    Today whatever we know about the Bible and Jesus is also from some historians who have been very faithful and true to our Lord God and brought the facts to people. There is also lot of bluff around, but all historians are not crooks. About a decade ago there was a main article in Time Magazine on Abraham as father of Jews, Christians and Muslims. Wish I had preserved that magazine. I wonder if anybody has read that article.

    I would like to view details on the kinship of The Jews, separate from the Christians.

    In scripture refer of (Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes) This is speaking of Paul , who was born a Jew (Acts 22:3)

    It was God's intention to have HIS begotten Son, Jesus, born into a certain tribe by HIS birth being in Bethlemhem of Judaea (in a narrower sense, to the southern portion of Palestine lying on this side of the Jordan and the Dead Sea, to distinguish it from Samaria, Galilee, Peraea, and Idumaea) And it is written Christ was born as King of the Jews ](Matthew 1:2) remaining relative to the House of David... So Jesus was registered and born within the Jewish nation but was also separate from that as a Christian called a Nazarene.

    A Jew is one born of the kingdom of Judah ( 2 Kings 16:6 - 25:25) and in the later Hebrew, after the carry away of the 10 tribes , it was applied to all Israelites. (Jer 32:12 - 38:19 - 34:9 )

    The Pharisaios sert seems to have started after the Jewish exile.. They recognised in oral tradition a standard of belief and life. They sought for distinction and praise by outward observance of external rites and by outward forms of piety, and such as ceremonial washings, fastings, and prayers.

    And when we read that which was of Apostle John in his day he looked upon the Jew as a body of men hostile to Christainity, with whom he had come to see that both he and all true Christians had nothing in common as respects to religious matters, even in his record of life of Jesus not only himself makes a distinction between the Jews and Jesus, but ascibes to Jesus and his apostles language in which they distinction themselves from the Jews, as though the later time frame reference: ( John 11:8) sprang from an alien race. John spoke of how opposed to his divine Master, were the rulers, priests, members of Sanhedrin, Pharisees, and never did John hesitate to tell of the whole nation's hatred toward Jesus.

    Facts and record for the benefit of all of us to understand what can appear as part of life, may be sown in by deception.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Triund View Post
    Did anybody read any commentary or any book on males and females created before Adam? Who were these man and woman? Is there any mention of these people, other than when Cain was given a mark to protect him from that "every one that findeth me shall slay me"(Genesis 4:14)?

    This question is definite interesting when we know that Cain's descendants are the Kenites, and the Kenites are spoken of after the flood of Noah as being present as Moses wife was a Kenite. The tribe of Moses, father-in-law were all Kenites.
  • Jul 31, 2009, 09:20 PM
    arcura
    sndbay,
    Thanks much for that.
    Fred

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