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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian24
Brian:
I think if God sent His only Son, to suffer be crucified, and resurrect for a sinner like me, He certainly sent Him for you. :)
Today in church, John 3 - Jesus talks to Nicodemus, an elite of His chosen people. The next chapter, John 4, Jesus talks to an adulterous Samaritan woman. Think about that, Jesus came for all of us. Luke 5: 31-32 and 23: 39-43.
Yes I agree but once we have come to Know Christ and what he did for us, He says "Go and sin no more.."Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
So Yes he did die for Homosexuals too and homosexuality is no greater sin than fornication and adultery however once we know Christ we are to repent and turn away from sin.
So Brian, God loves you but he wants you to obey his word and turn away from homosexuality because it is sin.
[I was just trying to emphasise that just because you have the power to take life does not mean you have the right to do so. God does have the right to take life that He freely gave to us.Quote:
QUOTE=Onan]
I have read a lot of your posts and I know you are smarter than this. I didn't say I had the RIGHT to take life, I said I had the POWER to take life. We all do. No one has the RIGHT, murder is wrong. The power to take life is not reserved for the Gods. You only have to watch the evening news to know this is truth.
Yes and it is because of the ability that God gave you. A biological process that God put in place allows you to procreate. But that does not mean you have the "created" them. Your wife Just gave birth to what God created using your sperm and her egg.Quote:
The fact that my kids are here is more than enough to prove otherwise. If it weren't for my wife and I, my kids would not be here.
Well lets not jump the gun, no humans have been cloned yet but even so, All they would be doing is taking cells from a human the God created and duplicating them.Quote:
Now I will be honest, I'm not much into science but I have read somewhere that humans have successfully cloned sheep? If it hasn't been done yet it won't be too long before a human is cloned. If that is the case we will have HUMANS creating LIFE. So whether it be physically or in a lab we have the power to create life.
You can't compare yourself to God, who are you?. lol God created everything, he gave us the life we have and has the right take it from us at His will.Quote:
God has no more right to end my kids life than I do. As I said, no one has the right to murder. Murder is wrong. I'm really not understanding how you or anyone else for that matter does not understand murder is wrong.
I don't think who we are attracted to can be considered a sin. Our actions are what makes us sinners. Mans law says he can not marry, so he cannot be afforded the same outlets for his love, as the rest of the world. Is that a sin, or is that man putting his restrictions on man? Not to argue, but to understand how we can separate sin, and make it wrong to be as God has made us?Quote:
So Brian, God loves you but he wants you to obey his word and turn away from homosexuality because it is sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
the bible makes it crystal clear that Homosexuality is sin. So he can ask God to deliver him from that sin so that he may be in right standing with God.
Hey Sassy,
I just popped in to let you know I did read your response. I see neither of us have budged... lol
Sorry but no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian24
When God created ADAM AND EVE, it was a dude and a chick, not a chick and a chick or a dude and a dude. MAN AND WOMAN. I don't have anything against you, but you asked.
Brian,
Just know that God loves us all. And each and everyone of us is His child, whom He loves.
We all are human and you just let God be the judge of your heart.
Pray to Him for peace and for His love to always be in your heart, so you can show and share it to others.
You ask an incredible question, which quite honestly, none of us truly know, accept God.
We are going to be judged as individuals, not as groups. Our Heavenly Father has more then enough love for us to do that for us.
So Brian, you are an individual, who loves God and may His Light continue to guide you.
Brian, I am wondering, how do you now feel about things?
I do have great care for you in my heart as I am sure all who have responded to.
Bless you Brian, now and always,
Allheart
You must bear in mind that Jesus spoke literally nothing about being gay or lesbian. An all-knowing King of Peace and Love obviously knows the true merits of heartfelt Love. Nevertheless, it is Promiscuity that is the sin to avoid in both sexual orientations and the one that can haunt a person until it is vanquished from their life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian24
For a clearer perspective of this issue, the following websites present a fairly non-biased view.
Note: On the second website, you might want to read "j. Birch" comments also!
Would Jesus Discriminate? - David loved Jonathan more than women
Pengiuns - Page 2 - Fencing.Net Discussion
Good post Scotty, but the personal attacks on Fr. Chuck, were not necessary, as we all have our opinions. I may not agree with him, or others, but try not to be personal about it. You make some very good points I do agree with though, as a personal relationship with the God you understand, is as important as life, and the choices we make are our own decisions. I also agree that the Bible (Qur'an, Torah, or any other religious book), was written by man, therefore not only open to interpretation, but flawed, by the same men who wrote it. They had good intentions, but had to accede to the times they were in.
I also agree that homosexuality is not a sin, but that promiscuity, may not be a wise course, or lifestyle, and that has nothing to do with what gender we prefer.
Scott,
In regards to Father Chuck, that is his name due to the fact he is of the clergy and is to be respected by referring to him in that way. You are not aware of Father Chuck's background, and perhaps it would have been best to ask Fr. Chuck, who I respect immenseley.
I am of the Catholic faith, and we do indeed call our priest, "Father".
As you say, the bible was written by man and we all are fallable.
As you say, the bible was written by man, known to error.
Edit: Here is the Catholic's repsonse to the utilization of the title "Father".
Call No Man "Father"?
Dear Brian,Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian24
Homosexuals is not against God it is a part of God Creation. God does not stop creating in Genesis He Continue to create the bible says" But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." (John5:17) God continue to work and one of His work is Homosexual. Lets read it to bible, Exodo 4:11 "and the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?" If God created the deaf, even the homasexual created by God.
It's a sin; the bible story Sodom and Gomorrah. Ask GOD for wisdom knowledge and understanding. Being deaf dumb or blind isn't a sin. GOD loves us all but no sin will enter The Kingdom of Heaven
God made homosexuals when he made man, how is that a sin?
God made man. Man, Adam, made a free choice to rebel against God and sin.
We are all sinners, straight or gay.
Scotty... Yes we are in the 20th century but since then when did GOD say its was okay to be gay? When did he change his word. Im not trying to be rude or anything; just asking a question.
Where does it say that in your bible? Just curious. I thought your bible addressed sinful conduct, and behavior, but being gay doesn't have to involve either, does it? I ask again, didn't God create homosexuals, when he created all men?Quote:
when did GOD say its was okay to be gay? When did he change his word.
Homosexuality is against the law of god.
However, so is eating pigs, having a bank account, cutting your hair and doing any work on Saturday.
Jesus came to fulfill the law, that phase of existence is over, and it is up to Jesus who goes to heaven or not... and Jesus has promised that if anyone asks him to come into their life, he will.
But homosexuality is not just an old testament law it is also said to be an abomination in the New Testament.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomterm8
Very often from the earliest times man wants to do the evil or at times the pleasure of their hearts and minds. So as it is with homosexual activity, and it is not uncommom for those that want to do it, to justify it with society, with trying to change the word of God, by denying the word of God.
And so as we go into this new century, man has rewritten in many places mans law so that there is less moral values in them, but this does not change the laws of God, only mans enforement of them.
And yes, they want to act like nothing is sin any longer and everyone will be saved no matter what they do.
The issue is yes if Jesus came today, he would talk with, eat with and walk with homosexuals, drunks, hookers and more. He would tell them of his love, he would cure many of their various sins and he would also forgive them and tell them to go and sin no more, as he did those of his time. With that said that is the part that most don't want to quote and remember is that he wants the sinner he forgives to stop their sin and repent.
A heck of a lot of that depends on which variety of christianity you believe. The vast majority of verses in the old testament which argue against homosexuality are related to paul.
I belong to the church of England, whicn ordanes women to the priesthood, which is also apparently against the law of god, as expressed by Paul.
Very many verses of the bible speak directly against judging other people, condeming other people, or naming unclean what God has made clean. I do not believe it is consistent with a loving god to damn people for being what he made them. Further, it would render Jesus a liar to do so, for he promised the kingdom of heaven to men and women, whatever their weakness or sin, as long as they ask him for forgiveness, This is much more a central tenant of my christian faith, than whether Paul was right or wrong over homosexuality to my mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
I should have paid better attention, I admit, during religious instructions but I thought we were taught that the sin was ACTING on homosexuality, not BEING homosexual.
Of course, at one time if you ate meat on Friday and then dropped dead you had to be buried outside the cemetery fence in the Protestant section so who knows -
?
Homosexuality, is listed as one of the sin in the New Testament. It is not a 'special' sin it is just like any other. It is listed among drunkenness, fornication, Pride, adultery etc in Romans.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
So you are saying that according to the New Testament it is a sin to BE homosexual, whether you act on it or not?
And which version of the New Testament?
And that would be what scripture?Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
Yes of course you will go to heaven, you are gay and that is the way you were born you must be proud and not care what other people think or say because they are just close minded. Remember the Bible was written by man not God. And homosexuality has been around forever, it was part of normal life in ancient Greek and Roman times. Hope this helps and God bless!
Totally in sync with you on this one. Sin is in the eye of the beholder, and religion is obviously something that should not be used to judge someone. Judging, in the Biblem is defined as a sin.
Maybe you should do a refresher on the Bible.
If we apply what Jesus said about adultary then, Yes. Jesus if you just look at another woman and lust after her, then you have already committed adultary. So I assume the same applies to a gay guy who does not have sex with another man but looks lustfully at another manQuote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
Homosexuality is definitely a sin according to the BIBLE. So it's either you believe the Bible as absolute truth or you don't. There are no Gray areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenclover
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Weird, looks like you added words:Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
1 Corinthians, Chapter 6 (King James Bible) - Christian Answers® WebBible™
Nope, no homosexuals there. Unless you take into account all the various translations and interpretations:Quote:
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT: CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL VIEWS
Which is true for a great deal of the bible so one could twist things to suit their agenda.
1 Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
(KJV) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Webster's Dictionary
effeminate- Having the qualities generally attributed to women, as weakness, timidity, delicacy, etc.; unmanly; not virile
As the Bible says it is not just the homosexual who will not inherit the kingdom of God, anyone who sins and does not repent and turn away from their sin will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ok listen I have a lot of gay friends and yes you will go to heaven God does not judge people because of what they like
Well yes, God does judge people, that is actually what he does do.
And he will look at first who has accepted his Son as their Saviour and Lord. Those that have accepted Christ will be saved, those that have not will not be.
There are a lot of sins, and sex with the same gender is one of those sins. It is no better or worst than other sins, but it is a sin.
We are all sinners the main thing we have to look for first is are we saved.
After that, the saved person would then try and work hard on living their lives like Christ would have wanted.
So can they be saved, yes, but very few will go to heaven, and that depends on your faith in Christ.
Jdlseslie
The good father seems to part ways with Paul of Tarsus as he [Paul]believed that nothing can separate a person from the love of God, not even sin (shhhh, don't tell anyone). In Corinthians Paul says that all things are permissible, even though they may not be beneficial or constructive, yet what is important is that we must live for the betterment of others. Either God sent Jesus for the remission of sins or he didn't. Either Jesus paid that price or he didn't. According to the Christian faith you are saved by grace, not yours but gods, to make that conditional upon anything else is bad theology. There is no "if " in grace. God saves by grace only if you accept Jesus?
I doubt your gay friends have to worry about much as long as they are not going around hurting people. Don't buy into religious people telling you what sin is and that you are going to hell. That's how they make their money and friends, its all very silly, like man could ever know the mind of God, its pure hubris.
Peace friend,
Scotty
Very few are going to heaven and it depends on acceptance of Jesus? I thought it depended on Gods grace. Hmmmn interesting theology you got going there.
Doesn't it also say in 1st Cor. That everything is permissible? I guess its just depends what you want to focus on huh? Didn't Paul also say nothing can separate you from the love of God? Interesting confliction.
Sadly one has to include the entire bibile, which incluldes Jesus telling us to repent from our sin. And if you take the entire New Testement as a whole, one sees that a person who is saved has to have accepted Christ,
they are not saved if they don't, that is the entire theme of the NT.
As for sin, We know that to accept christ we have to repent of our sin, this also is the very words of Christ. So as long as they have admitted their sin, have tried hard to turn from it, and accepted Christ.
But that is the only real issue if they accepted Christ, after they accepted Christ, then it is up to God to convict their hearts to show them the evil of their sin and to help them reprent of them.
So is it only MALE homosexuality that's a sin? Sounds to me like lesbians are off the hook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Mae
Also, what does it mean, "abusers of themselves with mankind"?
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