I am very aware of what the Bible says, and you claims do not change what it says.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
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I am very aware of what the Bible says, and you claims do not change what it says.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
These groups are considered to be in heresy or error. They do not reflect Biblical Christianity.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Jesus didn't write the gospel, so we don't know what he really said about anything. We just have other men's claims of what Jesus said... hearsay. I can write a book & put all kinds of fantastic things in it & claim it is true. I've not seen or heard of one christian outside the questionable New Testament who has healed the sick or raised the dead. That's because it doesn't happen. No one has the power to raise the dead, & only doctors have the ability to heal the sick through medicine. If you know a faith healer that can really heal the sick send him my way, I can test his power. Your claims are unfounded & ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
The reconstructionists have already infiltrated politics & government. If they achieve total power anyone who does not agree with them will be executed as idolaters, including non-reconstructionist christians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
No doubt, but they are not Christians. Just because a person claims to be a Christian does not make them one.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Matt 7:21-22
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
NKJV
This I will agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
You are a typical liberal; mind closed and intellecetually dishonest. You select bits from the Bible that you can take out of context or alter to attempt to prove your point, discredit the Bible, and vilify the God of the Bible, but when anyone else appeals to scripture to prove you wrong, youi dismiss their proof out of hand because it comes from the Bible. There is no such thing as a "faith healer". When the Gospel is preached correctly, some will be healed in comfirmation of that Gospel. I have seen people healed of various things for most of my life. You have never heard of one because you move in the wrong circles. Until you allow others to use the same material that you do in these discussions, there is no point in going any further with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
I would prefer that you not go any further with me, because you are more brainwashed than most christians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
And we could say you are a brainwashed detist.
Deists cannot be brainwashed, they use their God-given reason in determining truth, & they don't let some book such as the bible do all their thinking for them. They think for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by fallen2grace
I truly hope that you meant this in jest and don't actually believe that deists cannot be brainwashed. :D :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by deist
Deism is brainwash proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
That shows serious brain washing, to the point they don't believe it is possible
Deists don't have a clergy, or holy books, or rituals, or any such thing that might serve to brainwash them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
I think For myself. -_-
All humans think for themselves.
You don't think for yourself. You don't question the bible at all. You believe it hook, line, & sinker without being critical. The bible says not to lean unto your own understanding, which means don't think for yourself. So don't give me that lying crap that you think for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by fallen2grace
Actually most times you don't since you seem to quote verse for every reasoning you make here. That shows that you follow a book blindly versus reasoning stuff out yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by fallen2grace
Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Diest: what makes you so sure of this. Just because that is how you HOPE things will be when you die that does not mean that is what will take place. Just because that is what you choose to believe it does not change reality. I can jump of a cliff and choose to believe gravity does not exist but the reality still exist whether I want to believe it or not. Hell is real and it will be filled with "good" people who rejected Christ.
One of my fathers close friend was an atheist and he had a near death experience while he was surfing in australia when he got stung by a Jelly fish. I fact he was declaired dead for about 5 min. while he was close to death he prayed to God and said I have heard of you but if you are real save me from death. This man died and got a glimpse of hell and he describes it as the worst thing he has ever seen in his life. In the darkness a light appeared and Jesus appeared and told him to go back to earht and warn people of this. This is a true story! This man had NO interest in the things of God and now he is a pastor of a church in Kansas and tours the world telling people his story. Diest this is reality I hope you do not turn away from Gods hand that is reaching out to you! Just open your heart and give him a chance.
Wrong! We have found truth in God's Word over that of science, or any other book. And since we have found truth why wouldn't we use that truth to back up what we say? It is no different than you quoting a scientists to back up your reasonings.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I get so sick of hearing that Christians are brainwashed. We are not brainwashed. Anyone can know things about the Bible based upon what they are told, but it isn't until you allow God in that it becomes truth. Before I was saved all that I had learned from my parents, family, friends, church, etc. didn't mean anything until I was saved and God could then show me it is truth. There are often people who are raised to believe in the Christian faith, but choose otherwise. If they believe in the Earth's creation and all that's in it through science's explanation, then you could say they were brainwashed by their teachers, by science books, by all those they spoke to that are not religious. If they choose another religion you could say they were brainwashed by that religious book, by those followers, etc. The point is that no matter what a person chooses, they chose it because that is what made more sense to them. They chose it with their own mind and own free will. Not because someone else said so. There are more people who do not believe in God than who do. Therefore it could be said that those who do not, are brainwashed because that is the majority. Just as it can be said that because those who believe are in the minority, they can be brainwashed. Again, no one is brainwashed. If we go by your reasoning then everyone is brainwashed to believe whatever it is they believe. The fact that you think those who are not religious cannot brainwashed just goes to show how one-sided your mind is. It also shows how you yourself do not reason out "stuff".
Well actually I never used the term 'brainwashed' but that's beside the point I'm sure.
What galveston said is true. Its seems like you are manupulating the bible, taking verses out of context to suit your argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Anyway , my work is done. I have given you an invitation to open your heart and receive Christ and let him prove himself to you. We can all argue till we are blue in the face and if someone's heart is hardened then nothing we can say will change their heart. I will continue to pray for you that you may know Christ and let him change you like he did me.(trust me just thinking possitive has done nothing for me) I was like you, doubtful, before I knew him but it was when I had no where else to turn that I called upon him and even after I had rejected him and mocked Him, he was there with open arms and forgave everything I ever did, traded my heart of stone for a heart that feels compation for others and he gave me new desires. Diest I will leave you with this : God Loves YOU. He knows you by name and he wants you to be reconciled to him. God is love. He is not evil. Satan is evil and he is the one who is lying to you and confusing you, making you feel like you are intelligent because of your reasoning. Out of everything in the Universe there is know, we as human beings know nothing. The only true wisdom consists in knowing that you know nothing. God knows everything, the end from the beginning. He love you and cares about you as if you were the only person he created and I will continue to pray for you that you may come to that knowledge. :o
tatertot,
I will too hold hope that you will see the light and become your own person.
Fair enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
You don't consider tatertot to be their own person, and since you didn't say brainwashed, then tatertot couldn't be brainwashed in your opinion, I'm sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Sorry that's too confusing for me to understand.
In fact, Jesus has returned.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
He appeared the discplies after he was resurrected, before the high priest died and before his teachings were released all over the world.
Did the high priest see Jesus sitting at the right hand of God & coming in the clouds of heaven at that time ? Nope. Jesus wasn't referring to his resurrection, he was referring to his second coming in power & glory.Quote:
Originally Posted by lpeyton
Moonlit waves The best thing for us to do As Christians is to be Christ like and love and pray for these people. Arguing with them is pointless because all they do is go roung and roung in circles. Like you said if we apply their "brainwashed" argument to everyone christian or not, then EVERYONE in the world is Brainwashed because we have ALL come into knowledge of things, ideas and concepts through books we have read things we have been told. So basically Needkarma is not his/her own person either. Everything she knows has been told to her by someone else and therefore accoding to her own argument, she is not her own person. So to me that is the weakest argument I have herd on this site so far. But anyway my faith is not up for debate and Jesus never said we should force people or try and convince people on a cognative level to believe. What you choose to believe is up to you. God has given us free will otherwise he would have made us robots that just follow him. So who ever wants to discredit or reject him is free to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves
To die a physical death on this earth is not the same as the spiritual death that Jesus defeated when He rose again. Please research your context.
Deist, this argument was refuted and completely shot down once before. Why are you posting it again?Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Deist is blowing smoke. In his original statement he gives us 2 of "several" failed prophecies, both of which several have disposed of. A later wild statement is that the Bible teaches that the world is flat, covered with dome. I challenge him to produce chapter and verse for those "several" failed prophecies of Jesus, and also those passages that teach a flat earth with a dome. If he fails to do so, it will be open admission that he doesn't know what he is talking about. In East Texas redneck language, it is time to put up or shut up.
Does the bible say the earth is flat ? Yes: The bible repeatedly refers to the four corners of the earth (a sphere has no corners). The Hebrew word translated circle in Isa. 40: 22 is chuwg. It simply refers to a compass or circuit or circle. Nowhere does James Strong say it means a sphere (a round ball); a circle is a flat one dimensional object. In the account of Jesus' temptation we are told that Satan took Jesus up into an exceedingly high mountain & showed him all the kingdoms of the world. You cannot see all the kingdoms of the world on a round globe, for no matter how high you go you cannot see the other side of the globe. You could only see all the kingdoms in the world on a flat earth. Other failed prophecies of Jesus: Jesus said all these things (signs leading to the second coming) will come upon "this generation" (his own generation of that day). Jesus also said, "This generation (referring to his own) shall not pass till all these things (signs leading to the second coming) be fulfilled". So including the previous prophecies I posted of Jesus' claim that he would come again in the first century (Matt. 10: 23 & Mark 14: 62), this makes 4 altogether.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
Oh, and the Hebrew word (raqiya) tranlated firmament throughout the Old Testament means arch or dome, it originally referred to a piece if metal beaten into shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Finally! Something to discuss! Yes, the Bible does refer to the four corners of the Earth. We still do so, referring to NSEW. We still refer to sunrise and sunset, we don't say the Earth has completed another revolution. If you stand on the seashore and look carefully, you will see the curve of the Earth. The Bible doesn't claim to be a science book, but consider this:Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Job 26:7
7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
(KJV)
Correct! Earth floats in space. This from the oldest book in the Bible.
As to Satan showing Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, have you never heard of a vision? We have TV, so do you suppose Satan has no means of showing someone whatever he wants to? Your understanding of Mat. 24 is flawed. The disciples asked 3 questions, not 1, although they may not have understood that clearly at that time. It is not necessary to think that one answer fits all three. The primary interest of the disciples was centered on the temple buildings, and Jesus told them that they would all be destroyed in their lifetimes, and took the opportunity to tell them how to escape if they were in Jerusalem at that time. I have put in quite a bit of time on this chapter, and never got any idea that Jesus said He would return in the first century. You're stretching!
As I said before, the Bible is not a science book. What do you or anyone else see when you look up? You see the "dome" of heaven. I have seen this expression used in more contemporary writings. As far as that is concerned, it is a dome no matter when you look up. There is something else, not sure I understand all about it, but I hear there are some cosmologists who say that there is no way that we can prove by observation whether Earth moves around the Sun or whether everything revolves around the Earth, as appearanes would be the same. Not saying I believe it, but don't get too cocky.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
At this point you give false statements. People have gone to a lot of research to compile lists like this one. Religious AffiliationQuote:
Originally Posted by deist
Of U.S. Founding Fathers # of
Founding
Fathers % of
Founding
Fathers
Episcopalian/Anglican 88 54.7%
Presbyterian 30 18.6%
Congregationalist 27 16.8%
Quaker 7 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6 3.7%
Lutheran 5 3.1%
Catholic 3 1.9%
Huguenot 3 1.9%
Unitarian 3 1.9%
Methodist 2 1.2%
Calvinist 1 0.6%
TOTAL 204
NOTES: The table above counts people and not "roles," meaning that individuals have not been counted multiple times if they appear on more than one of the lists above. Roger Sherman, for example, signed all three foundational documents and he was a Representative in the First Federal Congress, but he has been counted only once.
So you see, there were a lot of Christians who founded this country. Secular does not mean anti-god or atheist. You talk about separation of church and state, but the prohibitions are both against the state, not the church. In plain language, the State is not to interfere with the Church. This is a departure from the question you posed, but you opened this door.
The bible not only indicates a flat earth, but Job's reference to the earth being suspended in empty space is just one verse. There are more verses in the bible that says the earth is supported upon pillars or resting on some kind of solid foundation (1 Sam. 2; 8; Job 38: 4; Psa. 75: 3; Psa. 104: 5; Jer. 31: 37; Micah 6: 2). And the bible indicates they didn't know the earth spun on it's axis, because in several verses it says the earth is firmly fixed that it move not, & they didn't know the earth was revolving around the sun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
1 Sam 2:8Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.
(KJV)
4690 matsuwq (maw-tsook');
or matsuq (maw-tsook'); from 6693; something narrow, i.e. a column or hilltop:
KJV-- pillar, situate.
Pillars convey the idea of support, and the Earth is supported by gravotational fields, whoch would have made no sense to early man at all. God speaks in understandable terms.
I believe that all these that you have referenced are in the nature of poetic statements, but will commont on them nevertheless.
Since you choose to believe vs. 8 literally, then you must believe vs. 10 literally also. If you are an adversary, this is not good news.
1 Sam 2:10
10 The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.
(KJV)
Job 38:4
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.
(KJV)
3245 yacad (yaw-sad');
a primitive root; to set (literally or figuratively); intensively, to found; reflexively, to sit down together, i.e. settle, consult:
KJV-- appoint, take counsel, establish, (lay the, lay for a) found (-ation), instruct, lay, ordain, set, X sure.
(The phrase simply asks where Job was when God founded the earth, broaden your thinking about the meaning of "foundation".
5982 `ammuwd (am-mood');
or `ammud (am-mood'); from 5975; a column (as standing); also a stand, i.e. platform:
KJV-- X apiece, pillar.
Ps 75:3
3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.
(KJV)
Ps 104:5
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
(KJV)
4349 makown (maw-kone');
from 3559; properly, a fixture, i.e. a basis; generally a place, especially as an abode:
KJV-- foundation, habitation, (dwelling-, settled) place.
(Earth has a settled place, or dwelling, known to us as orbit.)
Jer 31:37
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
(KJV)
4146 mowcadah (mo-saw-daw');
or mocadah (mo-saw-daw'); feminine of 4144; a foundation:
KJV-- foundation.
Micah 6:2
2 Hear ye, O mountains, the LORD's controversy, and ye strong foundations of the earth: for the LORD hath a controversy with his people, and he will plead with Israel.
(KJV)
4146 mowcadah (mo-saw-daw');
or mocadah (mo-saw-daw'); feminine of 4144; a foundation:
KJV-- foundation.
(Many things in Psalms and some of the prophets are expressed in poetic form, and we do no violence to the message by understanding it as such. But again, if you insist on literal understanding of these verses, then how do you justify not believing other verses at all?)
Deist, you said that you were a Christian for years (27?). Would you answer a question about that? Were you saved, born again, regenerated, brought into the Body of Christ, or some other expression of the same thing, or were you just a church member? If you don't know how to answer that question, then the church you were part of failed you. Which church was it? It has to be extremely frustrating to invest so much of your life and get nothing in return. The big problem for you now is that Deism will turn out to be just as empty.
It's amazing to me how quick we lose all common sense when religion enters the picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
Of course Isaiah's son was not born of a virgin. Have you even known a woman to give birth who has never been with a man? (I guess I should say without a mans sperm) Common sense tells us this cannot happen, why? Because we understand something like this just cannot happen. So then why do we believe it did in this case? It really disturbs me just how little Christians know the very Bible they recite scripture after scripture from. There are a few things wrong with this scripture. I will start with the obvious, that this scripture was not foretelling of a future event that doesn't take place for another 700 or so years.
When read in context(that is to read from beginning to end) you would find that the "sign" was for Ahaz not to be concerned about problems he was facing at That time. Now how could a birth 700 or 800 years later be a sign for Ahaz who is long since been dead?
Another problem with that scripture is the mistranslation of the word almah which means young woman not virgin. This makes sense since we see in the very next chapter that child is in fact born and the sign is given. Of course we all know if we read our bibles Ahaz was not all right and still ended up with reason to be afraid... lol
The third problem with that scripture is that no where in the NT is Jesus called Immanuel.
I don't wish to change anyone's beliefs but it would be nice for people to study for themselves than to believe what they are told from pulpits by people who have a lot to lose if people stopped believing in the myth they are trying to sell.
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