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Originally Posted by Retrotia

Alter? Suit my own whim? I'll pretend I didn't read that lest I have to pretend you offered an apology.
While the day of rest, the Sabbath day, held significance to the people of Israel, the first day of the week holds special meaning to Christians. It was on the first day of the week that our Lord rose from the grave. "Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. ... Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid Him" (Mark 16:1-2, 6; see also Luke 24:1; John 20:1). And the Lord's church was established on the day of Pentecost, which always falls on the first day of the week (Acts 2:1ff). Hence, the first day of the week became known as "the Lord's Day." "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet" (Revelation 1:10).

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I said "if we, mortal men." I did not say if "you, Retrotia." I will pretend I apologized for a pretend reason.

The first day of the week holds special meaning to "some" Christians if they consider it the Sabbath day. It's a work day for others. It's special to all Christians if that day is used to get together and discuss Christianity and to fellowship with one another. That doesn't mean that we aren't bound by the 4th Commandment to rest on the 7th day.

If Christ was already gone "early in the morning" of the first day, then He must have rose from the dead at some point prior to early in the morning on the first day. But even if for a certainty He did rise on the first day, then His body must still have been at rest on the seventh day.

I agree that Pentecost is the birthday of the Christian Church. It was the first day when the Apostolic Church began the "work" of preaching the gospel and gaining membership to God's Kingdom. It was not a shift in the Sabbath observance. Meeting on the first day is not synonymous with resting on the 7th.

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Originally Posted by ActionJackson

I hear some Christians say that God's Law or the 10 Commandments were nailed to the cross. Some say that we need to focus on Christ and stop focusing on the rules or the laws or the Old Testament. I believe that the laws of sacrificial offerings and animal sacrifices were nailed to the cross at the time of Christ's death but that we are still bound by the moral Laws or the 10 Commandments. I mean, is Thou shalt not steal one of the Laws that was nailed to the cross? What do you think?

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Of course the 10 commandments are still valid!! Can we keep them? NO! Do I want and try to keep them... YES! Did Jesus fulfill the ENTIRE law... YES! Is his sacrifice enough? MORE THAN ENOUGH! Anyone who says that the 10 commandments aren't valid doesn't understand that GOD never changes. He simply rescues!

Tessy, why did you disagree with me? You seem to agree with me in your last post. I really don't understand?

I'm not sure how I disagree with you. We aren't under the law! If that is what you mean. I can't KEEP the commandments to get saved. Jesus fulfilled the law. therefore he was able to be my perfect sacrifice.. do we throw the 10 commandments out? Nope but can we keep them for salvation.. nope. Jesus is our only hope. They are morally correct. What Christian could dispute that? Do I make sense to you now?

OK, I went back and read. You think that the 10 commandments are more valid now. They are always valid. It is a good moral code to live by. I disagreed with you because keeping them won't help you out in eternity. In other words, at the Great White Throne, God ISN'T going to say... well he did TRY to keep the commandments. He is going to say... What did you do with my Son... JESUS!? (btw.. sorry for any confusion)

Tessy,
No you do not make sense at all. You say keep the commandments yet that's what Capuchin said as well.?

OK... let me clarify myself then. The commandments are not going to save anyone. Only Jesus can. As a Christian, I WANT to follow the commandments... but doing so won't save me. Yes it is a good moral code, yes he should follow them if he wants a better life HERE but it won't help for eternity. That is what I meant. (sorry, I plead blonde here... )

I said I am a non believer, I don't believe in salvation. I believe that the 10 commandments are a good moral compass to make a better world. Nothing more. I'm not trying to score points to get into heaven, if that's what you think, I don't even believe in heaven.

I said explicitly that I believe that the 10 commandments are more valid than the rest of the bible, not that they are more valid now than they were before.

I am not concerned with an afterlife or judgement, I am concerned with the here and now, and I believe that the 10 commandments are not a bad guide to follow to make a better here and now. I don't care about being saved.

Please read, you jumped to a lot of conclusions which were not in any way implied.

Well α lot of the 10 c's αre definαtely hαrder αnd hαrder to follow through these dαys:

You shαll hαve no other Gods but me: we hαve our αdored celebrities thαt some people αre wαααyy to crαzy αbout, ipods... money... ect!!
You shαll not mαke for yourself αny idol, nor bow down to it or worship it: αgαin with the money αnd ipods.. we might not bow to it but we certαinly love our new shiny cαrs
You shαll not misuse the nαme of the Lord your God: hmm ever heαrd αnyone sαy "JESUS CHRIST!" I αm guilty
You shαll remember αnd keep the Sαbbαth dαy holy: I'm pretty sure α lot of people hαve done bαd things on sundαy.
Respect your fαther αnd mother: I'm pretty sure shut up isn't α respectful thing to sαy but we've αll been αccused of disrespecting the 'rents..
You must not kill: it's α crime however people still do it but it hαs not become α regulαr sort of thing.. thαnk god
You must not commit αdultery: do we not hαve posts of cheαting wives & husbαnds...
You must not steαl: everyone hαs stolen something..
You must not give fαlse evidence αgαinst your neighbour: lying for your friends could contribute to this or telling someone αbout the b!tch in the office of whαt α hoe she is αlso contributes..
You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shαll not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor αnything thαt belongs to your neighbour: then everyone sins-- common' who hαsn't seen donαld trump αnd not wαnt αll of thαt!!


αnd then you hαve your seven deαdly sins: pride, envy, gluttony, lust, αnger, greed, sloth

Hey Capuchin,

I didn't jump to any conclusions. I read that you are a non believer. I get it. It it your right to believe or not believe that is what free will is all about. I still disagree with you... they AREN'T more valid than the rest of the Bible. Do we understand each other.. I didn't mean to be confusing.

Poppa0777 disagrees: Tessy777 is right! If we could do it, ourselves then why was Jesus crucified?

What was I trying to do? Why are you all making up things?

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

ok...let me clarify myself then. The commandments are not going to save anyone. Only Jesus can. As a Christian, I WANT to follow the commandments....but doing so won't save me. Yes it is a good moral code, yes he should follow them if he wants a better life HERE but it won't help for eternity. That is what I meant. (sorry, i plead blonde here...)

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That was the best wording yet. I read your earlier posts and understood what you meant but the wording could have been seen as confusing. Anyway, what you basically said is that the Law of God is the school master that leads us to Christ. Since we can't keep it perfectly, we fall short which is sin. By sinning, we turn to Jesus Christ to forgive us and cleanse us of our sin. He and He alone can overcome our sin for His perfect self-sacrifice made that possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capuchin

I said I am a non believer, I don't believe in salvation. I believe that the 10 commandments are a good moral compass to make a better world. Nothing more. I'm not trying to score points to get into heaven, if that's what you think, I don't even believe in heaven.

I said explicitly that I believe that the 10 commandments are more valid than the rest of the bible, not that they are more valid now than they were before.

I am not concerned with an afterlife or judgement, I am concerned with the here and now, and I believe that the 10 commandments are not a bad guide to follow to make a better here and now. I don't care about being saved.

Please read, you jumped to a lot of conclusions which were not in any way implied.

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I'm sorry that you aren't looking for entry into the Kingdom of God but I respect the fact that you accept that there should be some sort of a moral code for a society to live by and that you are willing to live by a moral code yourself. If everyone, Christian or not, lived by the same moral code then there would certainly be a lot less confusion. We would at least be on the "same page" concerning how we should treat each other.

Hello ActionJackson,

I disagree with your statements because:


Even though we are not under the Mosaic law are the laws and the principles of those laws to be followed. Yes. While it is true that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic law code, of which the Ten Commandments are part, the principles embodied in those commandments are ever valid and they have been recorded for our instruction. True to try to get people to conform to the Mosaic law and to use it as a standard and as a threat to Christians, this is wrong, for Christians are not under the Law, which was abolished by means of Christ’s sacrifice.
Of what use, then, is the Law? How is it ‘handled lawfully’? For one thing, a study of it helps because it “has a shadow of the good things to come.” Heb. 10:1 Furthermore, by studying God’s laws and his dealings with Israel under the Law, we can get God’s viewpoint on matters, how he feels about certain things. We get guidelines. But we cannot, as Christians, go back to the Law except to apply its principles.
Moreover, Christians are not judges with authority to inflict corporal punishment on people for violating either the law of love or the Mosaic law. Christ is the Judge and the one who will carry out justice. But he is also merciful. So it is the duty of Christians to help an erring one, if possible. James says: “Know that he who turns a sinner back from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.” Jas. 5:20.
If the erring one seriously violates the righteous principles of God and is persistent and unrepentant, the congregation expels him, not to do him personal harm, but because such action is necessary and commanded for the cleanness of the congregation before God and is in harmony with love for God’s name and for the congregation. 1 Cor. 5:5, 13
God, through Christ, is the One who punishes the sinner according to what is deserved.
The law is ‘handled lawfully’ when its true purpose and function are understood, acknowledged and adhered to in the light of God’s purposes through Christ.

Paul wrote: “Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ.” Ga 6:2 While the Law covenant was terminated at Pentecost, 33 C.E. Christians come “under law toward Christ.” 1Co 9:21 This law is called “the perfect law that belongs to freedom,” “the law of a free people,” “the law of faith.” Jas 1:25; 2:12; Ro 3:27

Such a new law had been foretold by God through the prophet Jeremiah when he spoke of a new covenant and the writing of his law on the hearts of his people. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:6-13.
Like Moses, the mediator of the Law covenant, Jesus Christ is Mediator of the new covenant. Moses wrote the Law in code form, but Jesus did not personally put a law down in writing. He talked and put his law into the minds and hearts of his disciples. Neither did his disciples set down laws in the form of a code for Christians, classifying the laws into categories and subheadings. Nonetheless, the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of laws, commands, and decrees that the Christian is bound to observe.—Re 14:12; 1Jo 5:2, 3; 4:21; 3:22-24; 2Jo 4-6; Joh 13:34, 35; 14:15; 15:14.

The “law of the Christ” covers the whole course and scope of the Christian’s life and work. By the help of God’s spirit the Christian can follow the commands in order to be judged favorably by that law, for it is “the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus.”—Ro 8:2, 4.

In conclusion, we adhere and try to obey the Mosaic law and it’s principles, however we are now under a better law covenant, made and established by the Sacrificial blood of Christ. The Mosaic law was under the blood of animals and each year that blood had to be poured out on the alter of the “most Holy” in the temple for the peoples sins and in order to have a relationship with the Creator.
The high priest would enter the most Holy and pour out the blood of an animal. Every year this would have to be done. Do you or any other religion today do this? No, of course not. Not even the Jews do this today. Why?

Because Jesus Christ died once for all mankind. This sacrifice was one for all time. Never again would it have to be done again. Adam was perfect when he sinned and so after he sinned God instituted the yearly sacrifice of animals so as to atone for sins and to bring man into a relationship with their Creator. Adam had lost that perfect standing with God.

Jesus was sent by God to sacrifice his life, once for all time. One perfect life for the perfect life lost. Life for life. God even obeys his own laws. So we are no longer on under the Mosaic law because of Jesus’ sacrifice for all time. This ended the animal sacrifices at the Most Holy in the temple and was replaced with a far greater sacrifice, that of Jesus Christ. That is why it is called the Ransom sacrifice. Jesus Christ paid the ransom price for Adams disobedience for all time and brought us back into a standing with God. For that reason the New Covenant or Law of Christ is fare superior then the Mosaic law yet both are of value. Each had a purpose and now the Law of Christ has a purpose in God’s plans. That is why it is essential to follow the Law of Christ. This is God’s means of our salvation.

Take care,
Hope12

[QUOTE=Hope12]Hello ActionJackson,
Yes. While it is true that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic law code, of which the Ten Commandments are part, the principles embodied in those commandments are ever valid and they have been recorded for our instruction.

The "principle" of "thou shalt not steal" is don't steal. The "principle" of "thou shalt honor thy mother and thy father is" you should strive to honor your mom and dad. The "principle" of "thou shall not put other gods before Me" is that it's wrong to worship any god other than Jesus Christ. Instead of complicating the simplicity of God's Word with lots of philisophical red tape, just follow the Laws of God as stated in the 10 Commandments. They are simple and to the point. Did I always honor my mom and dad when they were alive? No, I did not. When I didn't, my conscience would get the better of me and I would turn to Christ and ask His forgiveness as well as their's. Such a simple process.

True to try to get people to conform to the Mosaic law and to use it as a standard and as a threat to Christians, this is wrong, for Christians are not under the Law, which was abolished by means of Christ's sacrifice.

Christ abolished the Levitical laws of animal sacrifice because He was the ULTIMATE sacrifice. Christ, the perfect Lamb of God, was the final offering. His death, on the other hand, did not allow Christians to covet their neighbors property or to commit adultery. Some of our modern day pastors clearly disagree with me as it seems that about anything goes behind church doors. Perhaps if they took the Law more seriously, there would be less promiscuity within the leadership of the Christian church in America.

Of what use, then, is the Law?

It is a standard to live by and a goal to strive for.

How is it 'handled lawfully'?

God will handle it Lawfully and in His own time and way.

But we cannot, as Christians, go back to the Law except to apply its principles.

Okay...I gotta ask...what's the "principle" of "thou shalt not steal?"

Moreover, Christians are not judges with authority to inflict corporal punishment on people for violating either the law of love or the Mosaic law. Christ is the Judge and the one who will carry out justice. But he is also merciful.

Correct, Jesus Christ is the one and only Judge of a man's soul. He can be quite merciful but lets take a look at the following passage: "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 13:38-43 Apparently, there are those who aren't pleasing to God and He's not all that merciful in the end.

So it is the duty of Christians to help an erring one, if possible. James says: “Know that he who turns a sinner back from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.” Jas. 5:20.

Great verse, that's one reason why I teach the importance of using God's Law to our advantage. I'm trying to help people.

If the erring one seriously violates the righteous principles of God and is persistent and unrepentant, the congregation expels him, not to do him personal harm, but because such action is necessary and commanded for the cleanness of the congregation before God and is in harmony with love for God's name and for the congregation. 1 Cor. 5:5, 13

You're not suggesting that we should follow rules are you? You're not suggesting that there are consequences for breaking the rules are you?

God, through Christ, is the One who punishes the sinner according to what is deserved.
The law is 'handled lawfully' when its true purpose and function are understood, acknowledged and adhered to in the light of God's purposes through Christ.

Oh, so there is "law" as long as it is handled "lawfully." Cool.

Matthew 5:19 "Whosoever shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Thanks for you time and God bless.

Hello ActionJackson,

I don't know what bible you use but I will say this, if you read the scriptures below that I give you will see that the principles of the ten commandments are what we are to obey. But we are not under the Ten commandments in the same way that those who where under the Mosaic Law. Do not the scriptures tell us that God nailed the old law with Jesus thereby ending it. Why? Becausse the Law of Christ is far more detailed and cover what is need for Christians today. The laws did not change but got better in that we do not stone people to death for fornication or adultery, but we now try to readjust that one so as to help them to repentense not stone them.

Since the Ten Commandments, from beginning to end, both in what they proscribe as well as in their arrangement, clearly demonstrate that Jehovah God alone could be their Author, does this mean that Christians are still bound by them? No, that does not necessarily follow. God can both make and abrogate his laws. The Decalogue, together with about 600 other laws of the Mosaic Law Code, as well as their sanctions such as stoning, was nailed to Jesus’ torture stake by Jehovah God, thereby freeing Christians from the Decalogue. Christians “are not under law but under undeserved kindness.” And in the place of the Decalogue Christians have God’s spirit and love as forces for righteousness.

However, the basic principles of the Ten Commandments have not been canceled; they will ever apply.

Rom. 6:14; 13:8-10; Eph. 2:14-16; Col. 2:16, 17.
That the Israelites might appreciate that this law came indeed from him, Jehovah accompanied its giving with awesome sights and sounds. And when Moses came down to the people after receiving the law at the hands of angels his face shone so brightly that the Israelites could not look upon him. Since that law was given through Moses, it is properly termed the law of Moses.—Ex. 19:16, 18; 34:29, 30.

However awesome and glorious as that occasion was, its law and glory proved to be but temporary. It was superseded by a greater and a permanent glory, as the apostle Paul shows: “If that which was to be done away with was brought in with glory, much more would that which remains be with glory.”—2 Cor. 3:11, NW.

Does God give a law to a people and then do away with it, abrogate it? Yes, as the Supreme Lawgiver he can make whatever laws he wishes for his creatures and cancel them when they have served his purpose, replacing them with other laws or rules of conduct. For example, polygamy was permitted under the Mosaic law and Levirate marriage was compulsory, but neither of these applies to Christians. That is why Paul also says: “The Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. But now that this faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor.”—Gal. 3:24, 25, NW.

And what temporary purposes did the Mosaic law serve? That law kept the nation of Israel apart from pagan nations so that the Son of God could come through it and to its people as their Messiah. That law also showed them their sinfulness and their need of a better sacrifice to take away sins. It foreshadowed that sacrifice as well as many other “good things.” Having served these purposes it was no longer needed. So from then on “let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a feast day or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath, for those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.”—Heb. 10:1; Col. 2:16, 17, NW.

In fact, time and time again Paul stresses the truth that the Mosaic law does not apply to Christians. Thus he likens it to a “legal curtain” or wall separating the Israelites from other peoples, which the sacrifice of Christ took out of the way; it “destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the hatred, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees.”—Eph. 2:14, 15, NW.

Just my understanding.
Take care,
Hope12

[QUOTE=Hope12]Hello ActionJackson, I don't know what bible you use

I read the Holy Bible in its entirety.

I will say this, if you read the scriptures below that I give you will see that the principles of the ten commandments are what we are to obey. But we are not under the Ten commandments in the same way that those who where under the Mosaic Law.

The Webster's Collegiate Dictionary defines "PRINCIPLE" thusly: "1. an accepted or professed rule of action or conduct. 2. a fundamental law, axiom, or doctrine. The 10 Commandments ARE God's principles or "rules of actions or conduct" or "fundamental laws."

Do not the scriptures tell us that God nailed the old law with Jesus thereby ending it.

The laws of animal sacrifice came to a screeching halt as a result of Christ's sacrifice. He fulfilled the sacrificial laws because He was the ultimate sacrifice and the final offering.

Why? Becausse the Law of Christ is far more detailed and cover what is need for Christians today. The laws did not change but got better in that we do not stone people to death for fornication or adultery, but we now try to readjust that one so as to help them to repentense not stone them.

Your statement suggests that 1) Christ complicated the rules rather than simplified them, 2) if the laws "got better" then they, indeed, changed. In all actuality, Christ didn't really do away with the death penalty for the sins you mentioned; however, what He did do was force us to look at our own sin rather than the sins of others. When the Pharisees picked up stones with the intention of putting Mary Magdalene to death, Christ said, "he who is without sin, cast the first stone." Christ would have allowed the stone to be thrown and even gave His okay as long as the person casting it was without sin. Fortunately for Mary, you, and me, there is nobody who is without sin for we have all sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God. Sin, as defined by the New Testament, is the transgression of the Law. If the Law has been done away with, then we CAN'T sin. It's impossible to sin if there is no Law to transgress.

AJ,
The law hasn't been done away with, the PRINCIPLES are still there for US but we are NOT under them. Jesus fulfilled the Law because man couldn't. Man couldn't do it, and that is exactly what God wanted to show us. We don't throw the Law out but neither are we under it. If we were under the Law we would have to follow it. Do you remember the Sabbath? You don't get to pick what you will follow, either you are under the Law or you are NOT. No more sacrifrices because Jesus is our perfect sacrifice, if we were under the Law, we'd be putting animals on the alter to slaughter. In fact, the Temple will be rebuilt and the Jews will begin to sacrifice again druing the tribulaltion period.

The Law was not written to me, it was written to the Jews. But all of the Word is for me. There really is a difference. And just so you think that Grace is so much easier than the Law, I believe Grace sets an even HIGHER standard. Under the Law to commit Adultry is a sin, but Jesus (HIS standard, OUR standard) says that even looking at a woman and lusting is the same thing.

I'm not sure who you are referring to when you state that many Christians posting are confused and don't Love all of God's Word. I certainly take offense to it. I will state one more time. You have to rightly divide it. Who is it written to? it is for us all but the Law was written to the Jews. We learn from the Law, the Law shows us how pathetic we really are and how much we are in need of a wonderful Savior. If you are under the Law, then I don't know you, but I can assure you that you are failing miserably. I love all of Gods Word and I strive to understand it. You make the Word confusing when you don't rightly divide it.

Hello ActionJackson,
Sorry for the length but It is the only way to try and help you see that the Law of Christ ended when Jesus died.

Take note of the laws that a servant of God a Jew was to obey. They had of course the Ten commandments but they also had about 600 other laws that were to be obeyed by the Jews. When Jesus died he simplified those laws into the Laws of Christ. Meaning that these old requirement were made for the Jews and benefited them, for their time. Christians today are bound by the laws of Christ because he fulfilled the Old covenant and made a new Covenant for the people who would follow him. We still obey the Principles of the Ten Commandments, but not the Laws of the old covenant because if we did then guess what, those who choose to not follow the Law of Christ, are doing it wrong. They are leaving out part of that law unless they follow all the obligations below, which were part of the old law.

These are just some of the Mosaic law which include the ten commandments.

DUTIES OF PRIESTHOOD
(In fulfilling their duties, the priests were assisted by the Levites; Nu 3:5-10)
Teach the Law of God (De 33:8, 10; Mal 2:7)
Serve as judges, applying divine law (De 17:8, 9; 19:16, 17)
Offer sacrifices on behalf of the people (Le chaps 1-7)
Use Urim and Thummim to inquire of God (Ex 28:30; Nu 27:18-21)
MARRIAGE, FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS, SEXUAL MORALITY
(The Law safeguarded Israel by preserving the sacred status of marriage and family life)
Marriage, first performed by Jehovah (Ge 2:18, 21-24)
Husband was owner of his wife but was answerable to God for how he dealt with her (De 22:22; Mal 2:13-16)
Polygamy was permitted but was regulated so as to safeguard wife and her offspring (De 21:15-17; Ex 21:10)
Only husband was allowed to divorce (for something indecent on wife’s part); he was required to give wife written certificate of divorce (De 24:1-4)
No divorce allowed if husband had married wife after seducing her (De 22:28, 29)
If a man and a woman deliberately cohabited during menstruation, they were cut off in death (Le 18:19; 20:18)
Husband who unwittingly had intercourse with wife during such uncleanness (perhaps at unexpected beginning of menstruation) was unclean seven days (Le 15:19-24)
Parent-child relationships
Parents (especially fathers) were commanded to teach children God’s Law (De 6:6-9, 20-25; 11:18-21; Isa 38:19)
Children to honor parents (Ex 20:12; 21:15, 17; Le 19:3; De 5:16; 21:18-21; 27:16)
Wearing dress of opposite sex (to deceive for immoral purposes) was prohibited (De 22:5)
Sodomy carried death penalty for both persons involved (Le 18:22; 20:13)

DIETARY AND SANITARY LAWS
(These served to keep the Israelites separate from pagan nations, to promote cleanliness and health, and to remind them of their holiness to God; Le 19:2)
Use of blood
Eating of blood was strictly forbidden. (Ge 9:4; Le 7:26; 17:12; De 12:23-25) Penalty for violation: death (Le 7:27; 17:10)
Life (soul) is in the blood (Le 17:11, 14)
Blood of slaughtered animal had to be poured out on ground like water and covered with dust (Le 17:13; De 12:16)
No animal dying of itself or found dead could be eaten (because it was unclean and had not been properly bled) (De 14:21)
Only legal uses: put upon altar for atonement; used for prescribed cleansing purposes (Le 17:11, 12; De 12:27; Nu 19:1-9)
Use of fat
No fat could be eaten; fat belonged to Jehovah (Le 3:16, 17; 7:23, 24)
Eating fat of offering brought death penalty (Le 7:25)
Slaughtered animals
In wilderness, any domestic animals that were to be slaughtered were to be brought to tabernacle. They would be eaten as communion sacrifices (Le 17:3-6)
Penalty for violation: death (Le 17:4, 8, 9)
Every creature that splits hoof, forming a cleft therein, and chews could (Le 11:2, 3; De 14:6)
Everything in the waters that has fins and scales (Le 11:9-12; De 14:9, 10)
Insects and winged swarming creatures that go upon all fours and have leaper legs: migratory locust, edible locust, cricket, and grasshopper (all according to their kinds) (Le 11:21, 22)
Animals presented as vow or voluntary offerings, communion sacrifice could be eaten on day offered and on second but not on third day; penalty for violation, death. Thanksgiving sacrifice to be eaten on that day; none to be saved over until morning (second day). Passover must not be left over; what was not eaten was to be burned (Le 7:16-18; 19:5-8; 22:29, 30; Ex 12:10)
ActionJackson, do you obey all these things and do you perform all these steps in your obedience to the Mosaic Law which enclude the Ten Commandment? If not, then you are not under the Ten Commandments because they are part of all the Mosaic Law.

Are you saying, “If we live by the Ten Commandments, that is enough”? Is it? Perhaps it is sufficient to please some who profess to be Christian, but does it please God? When he has lovingly provided the Bible, now in thousands of
written languages, does it please him when some accept a half of one page and brush the rest aside as unnecessary? Would a cook be pleased if you sat down to a carefully prepared banquet of the finest foods, picked out a single pea to eat and pushed the remainder into the garbage can? Of course not!

That the idea that the Ten Commandments are enough for a Christian does not spring from a sincere desire to serve God, but rather laziness or indifference toward what the Bible says, is shown in that even these commandments are not kept. Men are not so much interested in keeping the Ten Commandments as they are in not being bothered.

Take note AJ:
“By works of law no flesh will be declared righteous before him,” said the apostle Paul. So we must accept that to which the Law pointed and embrace God’s standard of what is right and not an abridged edition of our own. Romans 3:20;

Romans 6:14 (New King James Version)
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 13:8-10 (New King James Version)
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”[a] “You shall not covet,”[b] and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[c] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


The obligation to keep the Mosaic Law ended when the Messiah died, otherwise, what is the sense of having these scriptures in the Bible?

:) Take care,
Hope12

Being under law meant that the punishments stipulated by the law for its violation had to be implemented. The Ten Commandments are a brief outline. The specifics of violations and punishments as well as required sacrifices for sin are given in the rest of Exodus, then Deuteronomy, then Leviticus. It was the obligation to obey these onerous system requirements that was symbolically nailed to the cross by being made unnecessary for us to attain a good standing before God via Jesus Ransom Sacrifice.

Colossians 2:13-15 (King James Version)

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


That however doesn't mean that we as Christians can consider murder, adultery, malicious laying, and all the other moral requirements as irrelevant to our standing before God. It only means that if we happen to violate any of such moral requirements, we need not offer animal sacrifices or need not stone anyone to death or do any of the other things required by the law.

Btw
Sorry about the repetition of any info given by Hope.
I hadn't noticed it until I posted. In any case I'll leave in here perhaps as a brief verson of what Hope said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

AJ,
The law hasn't been done away with, the PRINCIPLES are still there for US but we are NOT under them.
The "principle" of the law is the essence of the law and the essence of the law is the law. If we are not "under" the law then we must be over the law. If we are over the law, then the law has no power or effect.

Jesus fulfilled the Law because man couldn't.

Christ's death did away with the sacrificial laws but not the moral laws. Matthew 5:17, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."

Man couldn't do it, and that is exactly what God wanted to show us. We don't throw the Law out but neither are we under it.

That's like saying that we don't do away with the traffic laws but we don't have to obey them. The purpose of a red light is to cause us to stop and it's important to keep the spirit of that law if someone is coming from the other way but what you're saying, I think, is that if nobody is coming it's okay to run the red. Is that kinda what you are saying?

If we were under the Law we would have to follow it.

And we certainly don't want that when there are so many fun things to do. Afterall, nobody takes rules seriously these days, do they?

Do you remember the Sabbath? You don't get to pick and choose what you will follow, either you are under the Law or you are NOT.

I absolutely do remember the Sabbath. It's a time to rest. We need that more than we know. It's not difficult to keep the Sabbath. "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." I John 5:3

No more sacrifrices because Jesus is our perfect sacrifice, if we were under the Law, we'd be putting animals on the alter to slaughter.

Please don't confuse the sacrificial laws with the 10 Commandments. That's like confusing civil law with criminal law.

In fact, the Temple will be rebuilt and the Jews will begin to sacrifice again druing the tribulaltion period.

I missed that verse. My fault. Have never heard this tenet of the Christian faith.

The Law was not written to me, it was written to the Jews.

If a rule is a good rule then it is good for all. If there was a law that said, "Jews shall not walk off of that cliff, would it be smart for you or me to walk off? Don't answer that, I may not like what I hear;)

but all of the Word is for me.

The Law is part of the Word. God's Word.

There really is a difference. And just so you think that Grace is so much easier than the Law, I believe Grace sets an even HIGHER standard. Under the Law to commit Adultry is a sin, but Jesus (HIS standard, OUR standard) says that even looking at a woman and lusting is the same thing.

So Christ revealed the true intent of the Law which is a change of heart. Now you're getting close. However, "looking at a woman" is not necessarily "lusting" after her. I looked at my mom and sisters all the time but I never lusted after them. On the other hand, you are correct that if I look at a woman with lustful desires, I have committed fornication which is a sin. Sin is the transgression of the law. Therefore, I am under the law.

I'm not sure who you are referring to when you state that many Christians posting are confused and don't Love all of God's Word. I certainly take offense to it.

If it doesn't apply to you then you shouldn't take offense.

I will state one more time. You have to rightly divide it. Who is it written to?, it is for us all but the Law was written to the Jews. We learn from the Law, the Law shows us how pathetic we really are and how much we are in need of a wonderful Savior. If you are under the Law, then I don't know you, but I can assure you that you are failing miserably. I love all of Gods Word and I strive to understand it. You make the Word confusing when you don't rightly divide it.

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I would try to respond but your sentences alternately contradict one another. Before I could explain what "rightly dividing the Word" means, I would spend considerable time attempting to "rightly divide" yours. Anyway, I think your heart is facing the right way for the most part and I hold no ill feelings toward you.