THAT'S a good reason to come to Jesus? Oh, I so hope not!Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
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THAT'S a good reason to come to Jesus? Oh, I so hope not!Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Listen to Pstr. Joseph Prince (New Creation Church). I am 100 percent sure you are looking for him.Quote:
...I'm struggling to find a church who can preach grace without trying to balance it with the Law. Where sin abounds ...grace MUCH more abounds. Churches are petrified if they preach THAT people will go crazy
Precious,Quote:
Originally Posted by Precious7
Ha ha... yes He IS my Pastor... I just can't find anyone like him near me... not even somewhat close to being a grace church. He is what I listen to all day everyday.
What does that mean? IF there is going to be a 7 year tribulation period and there will be people suffering and starving... wouldn't it stand to reason that coming to Jesus now is better? I don't get why you said that. Listen, Jesus saves... he saves us from ourselves, hell, danger, sickness, worry, and on and on and on AND a 7 year tribulation period. He is the only way to the Father! That's what HE does THAT's why he came. Why do YOU think people should come to Jesus? I don't believe in preaching hell fire to get people saved because I believe it is the goodness of God that causes a man to repent... but there is nothing wrong with being informed. If the tribulation period is coming soon as many believe... I think it's a great reason to start being interested in what Jesus has to offer. But that's just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Come to Jesus because there's an ax hanging over your head? "Repent! The end is near!" Wrong approach! Wrong reason! Threats of a tribulation period is NOT good evangelizing.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Kk2 Peter 3:3-4 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this coming he promised? Ever since our ancestors died everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Just saying...
I get it. It takes what it takes for people. I think the best approach is LOVE because most people will not respond to that. Having said that, I was saved as a little girl and one very very big reason was because I didn't want to go to hell. It took. I learned it was about far more... but there are people who are frightened of the future and they should be informed. As long as souls are coming to Jesus for salvation does it matter how they got interested?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Scare the devil outta them!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
And I've held back on commenting about Joseph Prince....
Not fair, I said LOVE and the goodness of God is the best approach. Hey, don't hold back... lol you never have before.
You concluded with "As long as souls are coming to Jesus for salvation does it matter how they got interested?"Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Actually, yes, it does.
What are that Prince guy's credentials?
This is exactly what I said. You will not find any of this stated in the Bible, it's an artificial system that people use to pigeonhole God. And by the way, there's one gospel, not two. Two different gospels or means or salvation borders on some very ancient heresies.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Better get your context right before you "say," then, because in context he's talking about people who deny Jesus will return at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Except it doesn't work. Scare tactics and the Jonathan Edwards approach simply do not work any more. People aren't afraid of the future. They're afraid of the present. Love, compassion, sincere devotion to helping people, the Church at large has lost these things. To many segments of it have become nothing but negativity. "You don't live like I say you should! You're going to hell!" IT DOESN'T WORK. All it does is drive people away. And by the way, those same people, when they hear stuff like your rapture lecture, laugh themselves into coughing fits. That stuff doesn't work, either, especially since it's not biblical.Quote:
I get it. It takes what it takes for people. I think the best approach is LOVE because most people will not respond to that. Having said that, I was saved as a little girl and one very very big reason was because I didn't want to go to hell. It took. I learned it was about far more... but there are people who are frightened of the future and they should be informed. As long as souls are coming to Jesus for salvation does it matter how they got interested?
Lololol, Same here all day every day. Good to know something in common. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Dave,
I don't think scare tactics are the best way to get someone saved. It worked for ME. I was petrified of going to hell. Was that the only reason I was saved. I don't know, I was 4 or under. I said the bible it is the goodness of God that causes a man to repent. However, there are cases where people realize they are sinners and are afraid they will die and go to hell and accept Jesus that way. Don't tell me it has never happened I KNOW it has.
WG... Seriously? There is no wrong way to come to Jesus, and if you don't believe me ask someone in hell. Oh yeah, I forgot, you don't believe in hell. Never mind.
Precious,
He is the BEST. I learn something every time I listen to him. Every single time. He is brilliant, he is full of the Holy Spirit. I started on this site in 2008 and the things I believed back then, are not all that I do now. I am a grace girl... all the way.
I don't believe in the same kind of hell you do, classyT.
But have they really "come to Jesus"? If I threaten and beat my kids to go to church, and they do out of fear, then what am I -- and they?
WG,
I came to Jesus because I was a little girl and the thoughts of hell scared me. I was told Jesus loved me and died for me so I didn't have to go if I accepted his free gift of salvation. I believed salvation meant saved from hell. I took it and RAN. It took. It worked. It won't on everyone. My father-in-law would have none of it, having said that he DID accept Jesus before he passed. I don't think the whole you will end up in hell otherwise was the reason. It takes what it takes unless you don't think I am a fully committed Christian. Lol I'm pretty passionate about HIM.
WG,
I worked with the sweetest most adorable, darling, sweet Hindu woman last year. I adored her. I'm telling you this because we argued whether a Hindu had to accept Jesus. She believes in so many Gods, thinks she may have one God kind of like a Jesus. Anyway, she had lumps in her breasts and I prayed with her. I said the biopsy would be completely clean in Jesus name. It was. She LOVED that I prayed with her. Every time there was any issue at work, she grabbed my hands, told me to pray and we did. I adore her. I still believe she needs to accept Jesus, I also believe she will, eventually. It was no accident I worked with her, and no accident she loved for me to pray. She said she didn't know how. I would have NEVER EVER EVER told her she was headed for hell. It would be MORE than inappropriate. Love is the answer... and God IS love. She will be in heaven one day, not a doubt in my mind.
Precious,
That is AWESOME! I tell anyone remotely interested in Jesus to watch, I pass out his books. He makes Jesus REAL! I needed his message. The Lord has used him and I believe is restoring Paul's gospel. I went to see him in Dallas one year and I remember telling my Dad, "it is almost as if the Apostle Paul is preaching"! That REALLY worried my father, a wonderful man of God who really GOT grace for everyone but himself. He is with the Lord now. I believe he is thrilled I listen to Prince now.
Dave,
Seriously? Paul even calls his gospel... "MY gospel". No! Not at ALL what John Preached. Did John preach the death, burial and resurrection? Wow if he did my bible is missing some pages? DUDE you are being deceived! John preached to repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand. He believe Jesus was there to take over with his Kingdom. He EVEN question if he had the right guy! Listen, I believe EVERYONE gets to heaven because of Jesus and his shed blood. But that was NOT what the people of the OT thought. They had a TYPE of Jesus with the animial sacrifices... for the most part ( meaning most Jewish people( they had no idea Jesus would die and redeem them. Let me be clear... Jesus is the ONLY way. It is all about FAITH and even though the OT saints didn't know who Jesus was he still redeemed them. But once the church is raptured, the message will be... REPENT... Jesus is coming back.
My daughter did the same thing; as a small child a teacher warned her about hell and told her heaven was a place where there was always candy and goodies so she should say these words so she can go to the candy place and not to the bad place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Today she feels manipulated. That is a horrible thing to do to small children, and even though it worked on you, I find it repulsive. To this day she hasn't gotten her faith back because she feels like those teachers took advantage of a child's innocence to jerk her around and get her to do what they said.
That's another result of the tactic you're talking about. Maybe it worked for you, but I could possibly have a lost child because of it. Pardon me if I don't jump on the bandwagon.
Seriously? Even most major dispensationalists won't go that far and claim there are two gospels. John didn't preach death and resurrection because, DUH, he didn't know about it. If your knowledge of the Bible is really that superficial and based on these phony systems, I don't know what else to tell you. Until you're ready to chuck all that garbage and let the Bible speak for itself, there's no way you're going to be teachable.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
And before you start trying to lecture me about dispensational stuff again, let me remind you: I started out dispensational and grew past it because I learned it's bunk. You need to start looking with a more critical eye. People who don't question their ideas and beliefs are the people who stagnate.
Ok. First, I am sorry about your daughter. Listen, the gospel is NOT accept Jesus so you don't go to hell. I get that and I am NOT asking you to jump on any band wagon. My parents had just gotten saved they literally knew nothing. They did tell me that Jesus LOVED me and died for me so that I didn't have to go to hell. I'm not the least bit sad it happened that way though. I got saved! I know better and so I have done better with my own kids. But It wasn't until my 50's that I have really understood completely that I need the gospel EVERY SINGLE DAY! It wasn't a one time event and move on... It is the power of God unto salvation for me every day of my life. It's been a journey. There ain't nothing stagnate about me. No way.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
As far as you saying you believed it before but debunked the entire thing means ZIP to me. I know you know it. Of course John didn't know about the Gospel of GRACE because he had no idea there was going to be a GRACE period. As far as he was concerned, Jesus was there to set up his Kingdom. As we ALL know now, that isn't what happened because Jesus had to die and redeem mankind. It's called the Grace period and it WILL end. There are different dispensations and different "present truths" as Peter said in his epistle. John the Baptize present truth is NOT the same as Paul's "present truth", which is NOT the same as Moses' "present truth", which of course is NOT the same as Abraham's "present truth", and last but not least it is NOT the same as Adam's "present truth". Same gospel? Of COURSE it is! Everyone comes to the Father through FAITH and because of Jesus! Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world. But he deals with people differently depending on the dispensation. This isn't rocket science. Surely you can see it even if you DID debunk it. Once the grace dispensation is OVER and it WILL end with the Rapture and the unveiling of the anti-Christ, what will be preached will NOT BE the gospel of GRACE. Presented to the people during the tribulation period will BE... YO! Look UP people on the EARTH the Messiah is coming back to Rule and Reign believe it, believe in HIM. It's exactly the same thing John the baptized preach. I'm not suggesting a different Gospel as much as I am saying it will be a new "present truth" Understand?
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