And the sheep that wander away are not?Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
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And the sheep that wander away are not?Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
WG.
Last time I checked my Bible... the good shepherd left his 99 sheep to go find the stupid one that wandered off. When you are in his fold... you are in his fold. He will NEVER leave... no not EVER leave , nor forsake the sheep.
I'm inclined to agree; I believe in eternal security myself. At the same time, I really don't know what to think about those who truly seem to fall away. I've come within inches of it myself, and for many of the reasons WG mentioned earlier in this thread. I reached a point where I seriously wondered whether the God I knew was Jehovah, or Zeus; loving shepherd watching over his sheep, or raving lunatic whimsically tossing lightning bolts at random people just for the fun of it. I came through that crisis, but it sure wasn't easy. I can understand why some people just give up, though I'm glad I didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Hebrews 12:5-10 (King James Version)
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth , and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth . 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence : shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live ? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure ; but he for our profit , that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Why do we need to be chastened? Well,we still engage in sinful acts of the flesh. God's word is very clear here.
Galatians 6:7-9
King James Version (KJV)
7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
This does not mean we are damned to hell all over again. Jesus died for all sin,past present and future. His promise is that we will not come into condemnation.
John 5:24
King James Version (KJV)
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Right, its about jesus' crusifictionQuote:
this does not mean we are damned to hell all over again. Jesus died for all sin,past present and future. His promise is that we will not come into condemnation.
And Jesus the good Shepherd left the 99 to find the one. But it appears the one wanted to be found and was willing to go back.
Many of the sheep today, run away, hide and refuse to go back
In my faith, Roman Catholic, you may go to confession and confess your sins to a priest. This is also called reconcilliation as you are reconciling with your faith and God. Even priests confess their sins. We are imperfect, we all sin.
The idea is not to continue to repeat the same sins - there is an expectation of true understanding and admission of the sin, acceptance we have done and the expectation we will try not to repeat the sin moving forward. It's not like you can plan to sin with the follow up plan of "I'll confess it later" - that is not the intention. What does your church teach about sin and forgiveness?
I don't often disagree with Fr Chuck, but in this case I have to ask: where do you get the idea that the sheep in the story wanted to be found? And as far as being "willing" to go back, there's nothing like that in the story either. From what we know of middle eastern shepherding of the time, the sheep wouldn't have had much to say about it, because if necessary the shepherd would sling the animal across his shoulders and carry it back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
So I'm afraid I can't buy your scenario.
Aren't sheep stupid?
I remember teaching third graders during two weeks of Vacation Bible School one summer. Our theme was "Jesus, the Good Shepherd." We colored pictures of sheep and shepherds, created flocks and shepherds with modeling clay, made banners with sheep and a shepherd on them, made up stories about sheep and shepherds. On the fourth day, the children were becoming restless despite the thrilling sheep-shepherd activity we had planned for them. One little boy piped up, "Can we get past this sheep and shepherds thing and onto something else?"
Ridiculously so. That's why the idea that the one in the story wanted to be found doesn't track; they don't have sense enough to realize they're lost. One will wander over to a stream, then lie down in the water and drown for no reason. There's a reason why they need a strict and attentive shepherd, because only God knows how the species survived before they were domesticated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Like us -- God comes to us where we are and drags us kicking and screaming to His bosom.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
Like the bumper sticker: "I found God." No, you didn't find Him; He found YOU!
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
And to illustrate the point, my oldest daughter has a bumper sticker on her car that says "I found Jesus! He was behind the couch the whole time."
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