The thing is the mind, the brain and the way we think and feel actually do greatly effect the world around us and how we react to things. It is proven scientifically that the mind can create lots of things.

Including illnesses, anxieties , etc...

I believe God created all of us, in his image. His thought, word created what is seen and unseen. We are made in his image.

Just think about it. Our thoughts, our mind creates and manifests into the seen.

Whether it be illness, or fear or anxieties and etc too many things to mention.

When you believe your healed and you know your better. You think yourself into healing. The gift of God is amazing and the power of thought creates. Either positively or negatively.

There is lots of scientific evidence to prove in the placebo effects of believing in something and how it effects your whole mind and body.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

See, that's the same as I can give you when you asked about what authority I had.

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The difference is that you're simply saying you don't know of any such beings or events. I'm saying I've had direct encounters and they scared the sh** out of me. Basically, you're giving an argument from silence, and those are some of the weakest kind. As they often say in the archaeology world, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." And actually, there's all kinds of evidence to suggest that unbelievers do get harassed by demons. They just don't call it that. They find some other explanation.

excon, I don't know of anybody who has ever claimed a demon made them drive into a tree, or any of the other absurd scenarios you set forth. That's a straw man argument, and it's almost as weak as the argument from silence. The testimonial evidence is there for anybody who wants to evaluate it in an unbiased manner. Whether it convinces you or anybody else is irrelevant; it's still evidence, and in most cases it's eyewitness evidence. Do with it what you will, but the one thing you can't do is make it go away or cease to exist.

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Originally Posted by dwashbur

The difference is that you're simply saying you don't know of any such beings or events. I'm saying I've had direct encounters and they scared the sh** out of me. Basically, you're giving an argument from silence, and those are some of the weakest kind. As they often say in the archaeology world, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." And actually, there's all kinds of evidence to suggest that unbelievers do get harassed by demons. They just don't call it that. They find some other explanation.

excon, I don't know of anybody who has ever claimed a demon made them drive into a tree, or any of the other absurd scenarios you set forth. That's a straw man argument, and it's almost as weak as the argument from silence. The testimonial evidence is there for anybody who wants to evaluate it in an unbiased manner. Whether it convinces you or anybody else is irrelevant; it's still evidence, and in most cases it's eyewitness evidence. Do with it what you will, but the one thing you can't do is make it go away or cease to exist.

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So by your explanation it some event happens to one person that is proof positive for its existence? Is it not possible that the few who have "seen" demons have some personal psychological issues? If you can provide some examples of non-religious people being hounded by demons that would be interesting.

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Originally Posted by dwashbur

I don't know of anybody who has ever claimed a demon made them drive into a tree, or any of the other absurd scenarios you set forth. That's a straw man argument,

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Hello again, Dave:

You call my argument a straw man. I call it an allegory. Certainly, you DO think demons do BAD stuff to people. Otherwise you wouldn't give two hoots about them.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Dave:

You call my argument a straw man. I call it an allegory. Certainly, you DO think demons do BAD stuff to people. Otherwise you wouldn't give two hoots about them.

excon

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It didn't come across as allegory. Thanks for the clarification.

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper1976

The thing is the mind, the brain and the way we think and feel actually do greatly effect the world around us and how we react to things. It is proven scientifically that the mind can create lots of things.

Including illnesses, anxieties and etc...

I believe God created all of us, in his image. His thought, word created what is seen and unseen. We are made in his image.

Just think about it. Our thoughts, our mind creates and manifests into the seen.

Whether it be illness, or fear or anxieties and etc too many things to mention.

When you believe your healed and you know your better. You think yourself into healing. The gift of God is amazing and the power of thought creates. Either positively or negatively.

There is lots of scientific evidence to prove in the placebo effects of believing in something and how it effects your whole mind and body.

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Joe,

The Lord Jesus himself cast out demons when he was on earth. He didn't tell ANYONE it was a state of mind. He spoke directly to them. The Apostle Paul cast out a demonic spirit out of a girl in Acts. It wasn't a state of mind.

I DO agree that thinking positive thoughts is a great idea and is helpful in life but it isn't about positive energy or negative energy when it comes to demons.

I don't know how to get around that... it is what it is.

Jesus said you can move mountains with faith.

He told many people to get up and walk. It is the Believing, the acting and doing.

So yes the mind does have lots to do with it and if you really paid attention to what Jesus was teaching this world would be a better place for everyone who knew what he was teaching about what we ALL can do.

Joe

Well short of being called a nut and this was over 30 years ago, but I have never figured a science reason for a couch flying across the room along with other items.

I guess gravity was cancelled for a moment due to a comet or something. Most of the ministers or priests that do exosims swear to secrecy on what happens do do riducule

I never said it does not exist or does not happen. What I am saying is Fear actually feeds that type of activity. Fear comes from? So when you get rid of that fear and face up to whatever it is? What happens?

I think jesushelper pretty much said it as clearly as possible, the mind creates and forms the world around you. Everyone's reality is different because the way they were brought up and there own experience and beliefs. People at one point used to argue the world was flat for Christ sakes, did the intellectuals and people with common sense believe it? Probably not, I know it's not a terribly good analogy for the situation but point proven none the less. It's incredibly easy to proclaim excellence and authority on a topic when it's impossible to prove it one way or the other.

Fact of the matter is, the mind makes as much as it possibly can real through it's own reality and understanding. There is some truth to the famous quote "there is nothing to fear, but fear itself." because you can't be scared of something you don't believe is real because it doesn't register in your mind the same way as others. Some believe, some don't. Some people are great speakers, some great mathematicians, others have really on the spot sensations and intuition and pick up on energies and moods and the such. Maybe they are more in tune with the world that is and the world beyond, because there is something beyond IMO. I suppose my real point is that people who haven't had an experience with a demon probably don't believe in it. Just the same as people who have never been in a crash think it will never happen to them. Or better yet how many people go through life thinking they will hit the lottery, but some people do. The world is way too large for any single person to experience everything in it.

In my opinion it's naïve to disregard anyone's testimony unless they are discredited for real provable reasons and labeled an obvious loony lol.

As far as my opinion goes I do believe in demon's, but I also believe in aliens to some extent. They probably aren't a space fairing race that visits the earth all the time but hell we don't and can't see beyond the event horizon so who knows what the hell is beyond. All I know is I have experienced something that goes beyond the normal in my life that was just way too coincidental to be anything else but a VERY negative spirt/demon/energy.

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper1976

Jesus said you can move mountains with faith.

He told many people to get up and walk. It is the Believing, the acting and doing.

So yes the mind does have lots to do with it and if you really paid attention to what Jesus was teaching this world would be a better place for everyone who knew what he was teaching about what we ALL can do.

Joe

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Well, I don't know. For ME you are minimizing it as just as state of mind. BTW, Jesus didn't just say get up and walk, he healed them first and they activated their faith by doing it. Lazarus was DEAD... he didn't have any faith at that point. The Lord also healed people by saying they were healed without ever seeing the actual sick person.

I get what you are saying about fear but sometimes fear just isn't in the equation. There are people I believe who are possessed who don't even KNOW it. Can I prove that? No I can't but I believe it. Satan himself will enter the Anti-christ and there is no fear involved whatsoever there.

I'm not trying to argue with you Joe ( well maybe I am just a little) and probably for the OP what you are saying is true. :)

Not minimizing at all. Actually Jesus said we all can do the same. Read the bible.

Jesushelper...

I do read the Bible!! In fact, I'm darn good at reading and BELIEVING it. Justsosya know. ;)

Well I have been reading the bible on my own since I was 9 years old. Front to back and many times over. (;

Jesushelper,

Well I haven't read it cover to cover since age 9. BUT... I'm still pretty knowledgeable... just ask me. :D

I think were getting side tracked on the original point of the topic, it's not a pi$$ing contest about who knows more word for word of the good book.

Lol, No it is not. Joe just because I said I have been reading the bible since 9 does not mean I know more. There are certain areas of interpretations that are different depending on who reads it.

As far as things being sidetracked when your talking about demons there is a lot the bible says about demons and how to handle them.

That is why I say that you need to have trust and believe and not be so fearful or you give that more control.

How are you doing by the way. Hope your doing well.

Joe

I am doing quite well, got a meeting with my Air Force recruiter at 7:00 tonight and I get to buy my motorcycle this month! I don't even have time to worry about bad dreams and the other things I was having trouble with lol.

But back to the point of this topic, I have hardly ever even picked up the bible. I mean my knowledge of it is bare minimum, the last time I even touched one was about 3 years ago to steal one of the blank pages because they are so thin, I used it to roll a joint with... I also asked for forgiveness for it awhile back because apparently that's quite the no no. I suppose what I am getting at is that in my opinion the bible tries to mask almost everything evil as a demon even if it's just bad luck... Also I would like you to elaborate on what you mean by saying

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper1976

Well fear and anxiety actually feed whatever energy you are giving these creatures whether they are real or not.

Fear can create your own hellish experience.

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When I read that I got the idea that you don't believe the idea that demons truly exist... At least not as a physical or meta physical way but as more of an idea. Same as when possibly you or someone else said something along the lines of demons being nothing but a creation or culmination of the fears of your own mind. So do you think demons can actually haunt and impose fear on a person or as more of just a negative energy that can cause a person to second guess themselves and their faith?

Who knows I suppose, even after my own horrid experience I still second guess it for possibly something that just went horribly wrong with my sleep cycle that cascaded other parts of my mind into creating my own demonic experience through a mixture of fear and paranoia that then exploded exponentially once the long term sleep deprivation set in, therefor making my own mind turn weapon against me by having it repeat exactly what I didn't want to happen when I fell asleep. God possibly fixed a real problem for me when I started to pray nightly or possibly my mind just used the idea of god to end a loop of terror because it's been conditioned by media to see god as something that makes those things go away and therefor it did...

Joe,

No doubt in my mind God took those things away.

Do I believe in Demons or evil spirits or forces , etc... Yes I do. The thing is I also believe that the mind and brain can effect a lot of things in our lives.

Scientists claim that we only use 10 percent of our brain. Imagine what we could do in this world if we learned about the other 90 percent.

The thing is there could be many different explanations about many different experiences, but whenever I answer questions or talk about different topics.

I do it in a way where everybody gets something from my answer no matter their beliefs or back ground or experiences. You see we as humans uses a lot of different words and expressions to pretty much describe similar things.

Negative energy, positive energy, fear, anxiety and so many other words that could be also taken as Evil and Good, and so on and so on.

You see we all might see the same thing but describe it differently, might word it differently, might have different names for it. It does not change what it actually is.

Now the causes on the other hand of certain reasons for it happening. Just because I state that fear can create lots of experiences in people. Does not mean I do not believe in it. Although the more power you give something, what can happen?

You had a battle going on, and I believe it was on many many different levels. Might have started a certain way but eventually the fear just continues to snowball into worse things. Whether it was evil, or not. Whether it was fear and sleep deprived? Does not matter in the scheme of things.

What matters is the outcome, and the decision for yourself to turn to something, God... To help you get out of the whole the darkness you were in.

It helped. You had a spiritual experience and your are praying daily because of this. It is good. Right?

Also the relief of knowing things changed, did that not make you feel and think more positive which led to more changes in the right direction, Right?

You see our minds and brains can do a lot of amazing things. Who created our minds, and brains. God given. There are many mysteries still to this day about the brain. There is so much more we all need to learn.

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper1976

Scientists claim that we only use 10 percent of our brain.

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No scientist has ever made such a claim. This is one of those legends that just won't go away. Some psychics like to promote it since it leaves 90% for "psychic" activity!

snopes.com: Ten Percent of our Brains

(Excuse the interruption)