Jakester,
You know I am impressed with your maturity and wisdom and I even understand how you feel on this one(which you also have said you're still considering different aspects because few controversial issues are black and white)
I cannot help but be almost haunted by the bottom words in my signature which have influnce in all my dealings with others and make me wonder that if you could torture others(no matter what reason used to justify it) you could torture our Lord... and it still goes back to, if you can't personally do something because it is wrong for you, how can you justify someone else(in essence) doing it for you. Maybe the soldiers that tortured and crucified Jesus were "just doing their job"

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Originally Posted by homesell

I cannot help but be almost haunted by the bottom words in my signature which have influnce in all my dealings with others and make me wonder that if you could torture others(no matter what reason used to justify it) you could torture our Lord... and it still goes back to, if you can't personally do something because it is wrong for you, how can you justify someone else(in essence) doing it for you. Maybe the soldiers that tortured and crucified Jesus were "just doing their job"

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Homsesell,

You posts on this topic have aligned 100% with my views on this topic. I've wanted so much to give you a "greenie", but I still need to spread around more.

As for your comment above, - the last line sounds a lot like the "Nuremberg Defense" rejected by every known court in the civilized world. No matter what oprder a person is given, no matter what job they do, they remain personally responsibl - a principle upheld both in scripture and by the courts.

Athos,
Yes, and you made an excellent point.
Fred

Because sin separates us from God, Jesus was sent as a sacrifice so that all can enter into Gods presence and know him. We are responsible for every lash, every bruise and the pounding of nails into flesh because we continue to sin everyday. We condone torture
as people because we cannot control ourselves. Is it right? no. Do I want to condone torture? No. Would I torture someone who is directly responsible for my missing child or wife or someone I love? God forgive me but yes. It would still be wrong and I would answer one day for that sin but I believe that serious crimes against humanity and children in particular gives one the moral obligation to defend the meek from those who would harm just because. My prayer is that I will never be put in that situation and for those who have.

I've been vindicated! When the news about Abu Ghraib first came out, I had suggested, like my mother always says, that you can get more flies with honey than with vinegar, So, instead of torturing suspected terrorists, I told others here on a torture thread that I, a good Christian woman, would ply those suspected terrorists with brownies, and would probably end up with them in the palm of my hand. Now there is this:

How to Make Terrorists Talk - Yahoo! News

Wondergirl,
Yes, you are right. Pain often either hardens those tortured or causes them to lie.
Honey does catch more flies then vinegar.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I've been vindicated! When the news about Abu Ghraib first came out, I had suggested, like my mother always says, that you can get more flies with honey than with vinegar, So, instead of torturing suspected terrorists, I told others here on a torture thread that I, a good Christian woman, would ply those suspected terrorists with brownies, and would probably end up with them in the palm of my hand. Now there is this:

How to Make Terrorists Talk - Yahoo! News

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Yep. The other problem with torture is that if you torture them enough, they will tell you something, but the information is often unreliable.

Love your God.
Love your neighbours as yourself.
Love your enemies as yourself

Don't see how you're torture anyone if you love them. Unless you're into that stuff then you're completely gross.