They list them all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
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They list them all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Oh Gosh this is like one of my favorite topics. First I would like to say it is SOOOO not like picking and choosing and I don't like when Christians say things like "that doesn't count anymore". It all counts. Let me try to explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by michele1983
In the Old Testament the Lord gave Moses the Law which is much more than just the 10 commandments. There were rituals, things they couldn't touch, couldn't eat it etc. When a Jew wanted to worship, sacrifice, make atonement for sin it all had to be done in the temple. Ok after the death of the Lord Jesus and the Jews rejected him as their messiah the LORD instituted a new covenant. We are no longer living under the law that God gave to the Jews but we are living under what we call GRACE. It doesn't mean that we are free to sin and do what we want but we aren't living under that Law because Jesus fulfilled it. It was given to man so that he might know what he is and that he can't possible keep it perfectly. The Lord has set aside Judaism and the Jewish Nation ( not a jewish PERSON) for NOW and he is calling out a people for his name sake. There is no need for sacrificing because he was the PERFECT sacrifice. Actually living under Grace we are called to an even HIGHER standard than the Law. Now after the church is gone, the Lord will begin to deal with the Jewish nation again and during the 1000 year reign, I believe the bible teaches that the Lord Jesus will reinstitute the Law. But for now... we live under grace.
I don't know if any of that made sense to you but let me give you an example of being called to live a higher standard than the Law... Jesus said this...
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
So you see, even THINKING about it is a sin... THAT is now the standard for the Christian.
The higher standard is Love.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Jesus said there are two Commandments now, Love God and Love your neighbor (i.e. everyone).
YEs, we are called to Love. No doubt about it.
Not quite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Ten Commandments
Notice how the commandment about graven images is not listed as one of the commandments?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
?? Your link has the graven images, it is on the left, even jumps right at you,
And the "catholic" list is the same list used by the Lutheran church, the Anglican church, and most all churches
That is the quote from Exodus (which does indeed contain a prohibition against graven images), not the official 10 commandments of the Catholic Church. You will not find a listing of the ten commandments from the Roman catholic Church that lists the prohibition against graven images as a commandment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Not true. There are variations among Christians for numbering all the Commandments which affects which number refers to what sin. Some Christians separate One & Two, No Other Gods and Graven Images; Lutherans and Catholics lump them together into one commandment. The opposite is done with the last two commandments. Some Christians lump them together; Lutherans and Catholics say Nine is coveting things and Ten is coveting people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Not shure what denominations you might be referring to that use a different ten commandments other than those given in Du 5?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
If they are using something different I would be very suspicious of that organization. For if it isn't in the Bible or if they have modified what is in the Bible they are not following God.
I did not say that there not variations, did I? In fact I pointed out a variation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I simply responding to your comment about one specific group of denominations by pointing out that they did not include that commandment.
Different order, not different commandments.Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
The division of Exodus 20:2-17 into ten parts has been done differently in history by various theologians whose divisions were adopted by their church (or rejected by those not of their church).
The oldest method, found in the writings of Philo and Josephus (first century), takes verse 3 as the first commandment, verses 4 through 6 as the second, and so forth. This is called the Philonic division, and it was adopted by the Orthodox Greek Church and by MOST Protestants with the exception of the Lutherans.
Later the Jewish Talmud (third century) treated the preface in verses 1 and 2 as the first of ten "sayings" and combined verses 3-6 as the second saying. This is called the Talmudic division, and was adopted by all Jews.
In the fifth century Saint Augustine listed the ten commandments by beginning with the Talmudic second saying as the first commandment; and, following the word order of Deuteronomy 5:21, making the ninth commandment a prohibition of the coveting of a neighbor's wife, and the tenth a prohibition of coveting his house and other property. This is known as the Augustinian division.
The Roman Catholic church accepted Augustine's method, and Luther also continued in this tradition with one modification: he preferred to follow the word order of Exodus 20, and so his ninth commandment became a prohibition against coveting the house and his tenth prohibited coveting the wife, slaves, and animals. Lutherans continue to follow this method.
The above being true, the following is in some dispute...
Presbyterians follow the order given by God to Saint Presbytus on the sacred Isle of Iona, deleting commandments 4 and 6, footnoting exceptions to 7, 8, and 9, and inclusively retranslating #10 to include the coveting of one's husband; a copy of which lies somewhere beneath the abbey of Saint Andrews, patron saint of all true believers and golfers.
--from rotation.org (Theology and Denominational Questions)
Thanks for pointing out what I have recently discovered. Most christians are hopelessly and completely lost. I think the whole christian faith is doomed, for failure. What you pointed out is exactly the problem. Picking and choosing, what you think is right for you.
But I don't blame the pastors who are just interested in fleecing their flocks and don't even know or care about the truth and educating them on the ways of the lord. The bible that I have a problem with because it so conveniently skewed, to keep the masses coming so they can continually be brainwashed and so the cycle continues.
By posting and asking these questions I feel you are well on your way to discovering what it means to be a believer in God. But don't look to the bible for these answers cause personally that book makes no sense to me. I was once in your position and I discovered a way of spirituality and connecting to the one and only god, who is the creator and tapping into his endless stream of light. That is what this life is about and not who is the most devout christian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
Wow. You have some seriously strong statements in your post that can not be backed up except by what YOU THINK. Christianity is NOT doomed.. quite the contrary. There are many Christians that simply do not know how to rightly divide the word of God.. it is a process. I can assure you that NO ONE picks and chooses if they have any understand of God's word.
My adivise is completely diffent than... if you want to know God and have a deeper understanding of him and his enless stream of light... you need to read the Bible. But before you do, I would suggested praying and asking the Lord to direct you, open your eyes and then send people in your path that can help you along the way.
I read the bible and it made absolutely no sense to me. Here's my problem with the bible, it's like a riddle/code that preachers try to explain when they don't even know the meaning in itself. I found the truth when I becan the study of kaballah and reading the zohar, its all the things the bible says but its more detailed and it made sense to me. (i.e) when jacob fought with the angel and would not let go of him until he blessed him. Kaballah offered me an explanation to this that made sense to me. i.e when abraham was out in the night plotting the stars, bible does not tell you the importance of such an act, understanding astrology is another post but make no mistake we where born @ the exact time that was needed for us to fulfill our destiny on this earth. Fundamental basics such as birth date and it relevance on our destiny would definelty be an asset to people searching for their sole purpose in this life. I guess different strokes for different folks. I am very fortunate to have found a spiritual teaching that has answered all of the questions the church was not able to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Look I am not going against the church I just feel that people.individuals don't need religion i.e christianity to be close to God or have him in their hearts. God is so readily available to all of us as we are born and created in his image. Everyone is God within their own selves.
Denouncing christianity has allowed me to think outside the box and not worry if my thoughts and acts are sins against God. The only time I pray now is when I am meditating and trying to elevate myself higher, so that I can tap into gods light, but to sit down and saw the our father I will not. The supplement and consciousness of my mind and heart connecting to my soul and allowing the creators light to shine through is all the guidance I need in this life.:)
Since you feel you are so enlightened with this new found religion of your you should do a web search for cults and read up on how to spot them. You to me sound like you are spouting one of the "new age" religions theme song!Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
Well, I suppose I do see why you denounce Christianity. You want God on your terms, you are trying to elevate yourself so you can tape into HIS light. God says to humble yourself before him, recognize you have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. Scripture also teaches there is only one way to the Father through Jesus Christ. (John 14:6)Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
He even says lets reason this out together, though your sins are as scarlett they can be white as snow. The problem you have is thinking that YOU can in fact reach that LIGHT on your own, without his Son, without doing it HIS way. Can't be done. I'm sorry and I mean no disrespect to you. I do not tell you this on my authority, I tell you this because it is what the Word teaches. You may in fact have the "feel goods" and the experience of a "connection" but don't be deceived. God sent HIS ONLY SON to die and suffer the sins of humanity and he says there is ONLY ONE WAY you can come to me.. thru HIM.. the LORD JESUS.
I have boys. I love them more than anything in the whole wide world. I mean Honestly the love I have for them is so powerful I can't put it into words. I'm thinking if I had to give up my oldest son to save the entire world and it was the only way to do it and then people began to complain and say that's nice that you did that an alll but I have this "spirtual enlightening" thing happening in my life and I don't NEED your WAY... man I'd be so ticked. My son means everything to me... and I am just a sinful woman with sinful boys. How much more insulting can you be when you say NO to a Holy God who sent his Sinless Son? But I've got good news. God isn't ticked with you, he isn't like ME. He loves you and he is trying his best to get you to see you are wrong. Don't give up on the LORD and Christianity.. he is a GOOD God and he loves you very much.
I'm afraid to hit the "disagree" button since I have been reprimanded for not using it in the correct way, so let me just say it here. I disagree. She never said she had found a whole new religion. She just found her way to God without all the hulla-baloo that the christians on this board are fighting over once again. BTW, "new age" is not a dirty word that she "spouted".Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
To suggest that she read about cults is an insult to her intelligence. Like she does not know her own mind, when quite the opposite is true. It is the followers of this version or that version of the bible that does not know their own mind or essence. They are looking for someone or something to tell them how to believe.
ohh let me correct you before you go to far, my study of kabbalah is a spiritual study. Its not a religion like christianity etc. Big difference I don't belong to any organized or unorganized religion. But I am a believer of God. Most people think you should believe in god and group yourself with a religion, but that is not true and I am proof of it. I believe there is a creator a supreme human being that created us and that is God the one and only creator.Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
Let talk about this cult thing you mentioned. First lets start with the definition of the word cult"
Dictionary definitions
Dictionary definitions of the term "cult" include at least eight different meanings. These include both classic and unorthodox religious practice, extreme political practice, objects or concepts of intense devotion including popular fashion, and systems for the cure of disease based on dogmatic teachings.[16]
The Merriam-Webster online dictionary lists five different definitions of the word "cult."[16]
1. Formal religious veneration
2. A system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents;
3. A religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents;
4. A system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator;
5. Great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book).
The Random House Unabridged Dictionary's eight definitions of "cult" are:
1. A particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies;
2. An instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers;
3. The object of such devotion;
4. A group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc;
5. Group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols;
6. A religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader;
7. The members of such a religion or sect;
8. Any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
Webster's New World College Dictionary defines "cult" as:
1a. A system of religious worship or ritual
1b. A quasi-religious group, often living in a colony, with a charismatic leader who indoctrinates members with unorthodox or extremist views, practices or beliefs
2a. Devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for, a person, principle or lifestyle, especially when regarded as a fad [the cult of nudism]
2b. The object of such attachment
3. a group of followers, sect
For authoritative British usage, the Compact Oxford English Dictionary of Current English definitions of "cult" and "sect" are:
cult[18]
1 a system of religious worship directed towards a particular figure or object.
to a small religious group regarded as strange or as imposing excessive control over members.
3 something popular or fashionable among a particular section of society.
sect[19]
1 a group of people with different religious beliefs (typically regarded as heretical) from those of a larger group to which they belong.
to a group with extreme or dangerous philosophical or political ideas.
British "sect" formerly included a contextually implied meaning, of what "cult" now means in both USA and the UK.[20] Some other nations still use the foreign equivalents of old British "sect" ("secte," "sekte," or "secta." etc.) to imply "cult."[21] Both words, as well as "cult" in its original sense of cultus (e.g. Middle Ages cult of Mary), must be understood to correctly interpret 20th century popular cult references in world English.
Surely Kaballah is not a religion like christianity etc. its only a spiritual belief and there's a hugh difference. But I don't blame you cause if you do belong to an organized religion it really does not encourage members to think out of the box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Thanks for sharing your views but I don't share them anymore. I believe and love jesus and try to be more like him, but he is not my saviour. I am my own saviour. Jesus even said that all we need to be close to god is already within us.
Thank you so much for getting it. The behaviour these christian on this board display is exactly the problem. Closed minded quoting all this passages from the bible is absolutely irrelevant to me anyway. Only difference with me these days is that I have a spiritual belief that does not belong to any organized religion. This belief allows me to love God and Jesus:).Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
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