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Originally Posted by 450donn

Fred,
You have argued that before and it still is funny to me. Jesus sounds a trumpet and those living and dead in Christ will rise. No where does it say that Jesus will set foot on the earth does it? The second coming of Christ is at the battle of Armageddon and judgment day. Do you really want to live through all of the seven years of tribulations that are taught in Revelation? I certainly do not.

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Have a great time during those seven years. Fred and I will be enjoying heaven.

And why would Jesus have to set foot on earth to sound a trumpet? Which foot? Where on earth? Will the trumpet be brass or made of silver? Will we get box lunches and a catered dinner, because it certainly will take God all day to judge all those billions of people. Will we be able to sit? I can't stand for that many hours. My cats will need to be fed. Certainly God won't want us to abandon our responsibilities to our pets? Or will God cause all pets and other animals to die on Judgment Day? That sounds pretty mean. (Methinks you are too involved thinking of the logistics of the Last Day.)

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Originally Posted by arcura

Galveston,
Sorry, but I can not believe in multiple comings of Christ.
The bible says that there will be only one.
Read the book "THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE HOAX" by Harry Bethel.
It biblically proves that there will be n rapture.
There are several books out that prove that including "The Rapture Trap" by Dr. Paul Thigpen.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Only one? I count two.

Acts 1:9-11
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."
NKJV

The rapture is not a return to earth by Jesus, but a gathering of the saints.

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Originally Posted by arcura
Galveston,
Sorry, but I can not believe in multiple comings of Christ.
The bible says that there will be only one.
Read the book "THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE HOAX" by Harry Bethel.
It biblically proves that there will be n rapture.
There are several books out that prove that including "The Rapture Trap" by Dr. Paul Thigpen.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Posted by Tj3: Only one? I count two.

Acts 1:9-11
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."
NKJV


The rapture is not a return to earth by Jesus, but a gathering of the saints.

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Posted by Akoue: Akoue disagrees: This is misleading as the quoted Scripture does not demonstrate that there will be two second comings. What is the second second coming? An encore?

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Hey Akoue, Note that I said that there were two comings of Christ, not two second comings. Please, let's be honest when responding, and not mis-represent what others have said.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Hey Akoue, Note that I said that there were two comings of Christ, not two second comings. Please, let's be honest when responding, and not mis-represent what others have said.

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C'mon, Tom. What you said was misleading. Even I who have known you for years and years had to think about what you had written and consider what you meant.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

C'mon, Tom. What you said was misleading. Even I who have known you for years and years had to think about what you had written and consider what you meant.

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It was quite clear. I said 2 comings, and I stated specifically that the rapture was not a coming.

If someone thought it was unclear, then the right approach is to ask for clarification. Further, those who have really known me for years, indeed those who have known me for shorter periods know what I believe in terms of the rapture, and never in my entire life have I stated that there was anything more that the com,ing of Jesus in the 1st century, the coming of Jesus in the second coming and the rapture of the saints (which I and others clearly explained was NOT a "coming").

Anyone who claims others is mis-representing what I said.

Ok, Tom.

450donn,
It is recorded the Messiah will indeed set foot on earth when the third temple is built and appear from it and He will NOT return before it is built.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Yes, Fred, that is the time he comes for the battle of Armegeddon and to judge the whole earth. This is the time he comes to set up his kingdom here on earth.
Oh and the Rapture was clearly spoken about in writings from I believe the first century. It is nothing new as you and others try to claim. 1Th4:16,Tit2;13, Jn14:1-3, 1Co15:51-53, 1Th4:15-5:11, 1Co 3:11-15, 2Co5:10
In fact the tribulation period starts from the time that the church is taken away as attested to in: Jn14:1-3, 1Th4:13-18,

450donn,
Sorry, I still can not believe in it.
I have read too much about it to accept other than as bogus theology.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,
I am really sorry that you do not believe the word of God on this subject. All I can do is pray that God will remove the blinders that you have so firmly affixed to your head so that you can see the way and truth of his teachings. Many do not want to understand and for them I really have to pray that they are not so misguided that they are left here on earth at the rapture (taking up) of his church. Which signals the start of the tribulation for those that remain here on earth.
Sorry to the OP that we have really gotten off topic and probably failed to properly answer his original questions.
Techpro There are many many resources on this subject. If your church does not teach it to your satisfaction, then please by all means find one that does. Or at least find a church that has/offers the information to help you on your journey of discovery about this fascinating subject. As you can see there is a great debate among the different denominations on this subject. While everybody believes their view is the right one and all others are wrong, I believe that we will see a fulfilling of the prophesies concerning the last days of the earth very soon. Ref Mat25, the parable of the ten virgins came to my mind while I was typing. It teaches us to be vigilant for the return of Jesus.

450donn,
Thanks but I am very satisfied with The Church I belong to.
If the rapture does occure and I meet you after I'll apologise.
But I'm certain NOW that there will be noe rapture AS IT IS BEING TAUGHT NOW DAYS.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by techpro

I have been trying to study as much as i can about the book of Revelations, but i have been having a hard time understanding some of the content, can anyone help me to better understand this book!
Any help is appreciated!

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This is almost impossible to answer in the limited spece we have here. However, should you ask some definite question or mention a particularly difficult paragraph for you to understand, I may try to help you, to the best of my possibilities.

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Originally Posted by gromitt82

This is almost impossible to answer in the limited spece we have here. However, should you ask some definite question or mention a particularly difficult paragraph for you to understand, I may try to help you, to the best of my possibilities.

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Well gromitt first of all I don't understand the part about the battle in heaven between the angels and the dragon!

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Originally Posted by 450donn

kingdom here on earth.
Oh and the Rapture was clearly spoken about in writings from I believe the first century. It is nothing new as you and others try to claim.

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Please provide sources to this documentation that you claim that the rapture was clearly spoken about in the early centuries. Next, I would like to ask if you are pre, mid, or post?

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Originally Posted by arcura

450donn,
Thanks but I am very satisfied with The Church I belong to.
Fred

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Hey, I was just wondering what church are you a member of? I know saying "The Church" is an allusion to something but I can only speculate your intentions.:D

DominusVobiscum and all of the other fine people here on this forum that are interested in the writing of the end days, here is a link for you to go and read for yourselves.
Early Church Teaching On Pre-Tribulation Rapture

Believe, don't believe that is totally up to you.

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Originally Posted by 450donn

DominusVobiscum and all of the other fine people here on this forum that are interested in the writing of the end days, here is a link for you to go and read for yourselves.
Early Church Teaching On Pre-Tribulation Rapture

Believe, don't believe that is totally up to you.

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Now don't be ridiculous 450don, this is not proof that the early church believed in the pre-trib rapture. This just proves that some isolated members of the Church believed in the rapture as you describe it. I asked for proof that the Church as a whole taught the rapture.
Also look at this list of early church leaders in 330-335 that taught heresy; In the church in Antioch, Paulinus (330), Eulalius (330), Euphronius (332), Flaccilus (335). They all taught Arianism! Now does that prove that the early Church as a whole taught and believed Arianism? No of course not! It just proves that a few heretical leaders adhered to heresy. Not the whole Church. So again, can you please show me documentation that proves the early Church taught the Rapture?

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Originally Posted by 450donn

DominusVobiscum and all of the other fine people here on this forum that are interested in the writing of the end days, here is a link for you to go and read for yourselves.
Early Church Teaching On Pre-Tribulation Rapture

Believe, don't believe that is totally up to you.

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Now don't be ridiculous 450don, this is not proof that the early church believed in the pre-trib rapture. This just proves that some isolated members of the Church believed in the rapture as you describe it. I asked for proof that the Church as a whole taught the rapture.
Also look at this list of early church leaders in 330-335 that taught heresy; In the church in Antioch, Paulinus (330), Eulalius (330), Euphronius (332), Flaccilus (335). They all taught Arianism! Now does that prove that the early Church as a whole taught and believed Arianism? No of course not! It just proves that a few heretical leaders adhered to heresy. Not the whole Church. So again, can you please show me documentation that proves the early Church taught the Rapture?

And I could ask you the same thing. I gave you one link to the article I referred to just like you asked, and you want to still argue about it. Please go back and reread my original post. That is fine, But don't try and drag me into debating you. I NEVER claimed that it was taught in the catholic church. I did say that it was written about in what I remembered as the first century. My mistake it was the 4th century. It is obvious that you will not believe no matter what Remember that the Pharisees also refused to believe what was right in front of them in the form of Jesus Christ. And instead crucified him in accordance with the scriptures. Yet they still did not believe!

DominusVobiscum,
Any time I use the term "The Church" with capitol letters I refer to The Church that Jesus founded with Peter as its first leader that is now called The Catholic Church which I became a member of over 30 years ago after leaving Protestantism.
Peace and kindness,
Fred