Ask Me Help Desk - On Catholicism and justification by works.

And before you ask I lost my faith in the bible along time ago and I probably never get it back now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by WakkieRob

The Devils your angel!

You are trick by your own ways who wants to be religious.

This is not the discussion board. Please stay on topic which is to deal with the question raised in the OP, not to attack other participatants or their beliefs.

Tj3,
Please get it right, Tom Smith,
It is nor my personal interpretation as yours is.
I believe the bible literally.
The bible literally says that faith without works is dead.
No matter what you say or try to refute the bible will not change.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
Please get it right, Tom Smith,
It is nor my personal interpretation as yours is.

Fred, you are telling me that those verses mean the opposite of what they say.

Quote:

I believe the bible literally.

Then explain how you come to the conclusion that these verses do not mean what they say.

Eph 2:7-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

Rom 7:4-6
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
NKJV

John 15:4-5
As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
NKJV

Quote:

The bible literally says that faith without works is dead.

It does indeed. What it does not say is that faith with works saves. Why do you keep repeating this one after your private interpretation has been refuted so many times, over so many years on so many boards?

First and foremost, as I showed previously in this thread,the Greek ford for "faith" is the same word as "faithfulness". Thus "faithfulness without works is dead". If you are claiming to have faith in God and we see no works as evidence, then you are not being faithful to your professing or to God, therefore do you really have faith?

Scripture does not contradict itself. You cannot take one verse out of context and then ignore Ephesians 2:8, for example.

Eph 2:7-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

No matter what you say or try to refute the bible will not change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

This is not the discussion board. Please stay on topic which is to deal with the question raised in the OP, not to attack other participatants or their beliefs.

Look I wasn't being nasty because if I were I would have used the devils name OK!

I will try to stay on track just need conversion!

Quote:

Originally Posted by WakkieRob

Look I wasn't being nasty because if I were I would have used the devils name OK!

I will try to stay on track just need conversion!

My point was that this is not the discussion board and there are rules of interaction.

Tj3,
Are you of the Christian Faith I just said I was sorry what do you want out of me blood:(

Quote:

Originally Posted by WakkieRob

Tj3,
Are you of the Christian Faith I just said I was sorry what do you want out of me blood:(

I did not see you say that you were sorry, but nonetheless that is not necessary. I would just like to see you join in the discussion.

And yes, I am a Christian.

Tj3,
I'm sorry but I do not agree with you.
Some times I do but often not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
I'm sorry but I do not agree with you.
Some times I do but often not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

You are of course welcome to have your own interpretations. It is unfortunate, though, that you are unwilling to explain how you came to those interpretations.

Tj3,
Don't try to twist that. The IS a false accusation.
I do and have posted biblically why I believe as I do.
I see you are back at your old self again.
How sad.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
Don't try to twist that. The IS a false accusation.
I do and have posted biblically why I believe as I do.

Fred - look at this thread. I asked you several times to explain how you came to your personal interpretation of the verses that I quoted and you didn't. But I do respect your right to hold your own interpretations.

Tj3 -

Hey man, just let it go... I understand what you are getting at and I personally respect your commitment to sound biblical interpretation. But you have to just drop back and punt sometimes because not everyone is on the same page. I'm saying that because you are really starting to look foolish and unwise... I love you though, man; I respect what you are trying to do.

You know what you believe and carefully interepret and articulate that position but you cannot police others... you can try to argue your position and be helpful in showing others where they may be wrong and you can also be willing to allow people to challenge your own interpretations at times but where neither you or another is convinced the other is right, what can you do but just move on?

I'm saying this with respect and brotherly love.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakester

Tj3 -

hey man, just let it go...I understand what you are getting at and I personally respect your commitment to sound biblical interpretation. But you have to just drop back and punt sometimes because not everyone is on the same page. I'm saying that because you are really starting to look foolish and unwise...I love you though, man; I respect what you are trying to do.

You know what you believe and carefully interepret and articulate that position but you cannot police others...you can try to argue your position and be helpful in showing others where they may be wrong and you can also be willing to allow people to challenge your own interpretations at times but where neither you or another is convinced the other is right, what can you do but just move on?

I'm saying this with respect and brotherly love.

Jakester,
Fred and I go back a long ways. I keep hoping someday that he will actually interact on scripture. Fred's refrain when challenged is to simply make all sorts of accusations, so it does not bother me.

Maybe it would be in order to define "salvation". Does it happen immediately as a result of a spiritual crisis, or does it happen over a period? Can we know that we are saved, or do we only hope that when our life here is finished, we will be saved?
This discussion of faith and works hinges on what we believe on the subject of salvation.
Do we need another thread?

Jakester,
Right on.
The prolelm with Tj3 id that he like to twist things and make false accusaons so much that it becomes annoying.
But I'm about to let it go and ignore him more. He is just a waste of time.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Galveston1,
You are right.
And
If you think we need a new thread please start one.
I'd be interested in that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Jakester,
Right on.
The prolelm with Tj3 id that he like to twist things and make false accusaons so much that it becomes annoying.

Just like I said Fred, you never change. When you cannot address scripture, you get nasty.

Quote:

But I'm about to let it go and ignore him more. He is just a waste of time.

As you wish Fred. I remain willing to discuss scripture with you anytime. The door will never close.

Something weird happened to me when I was younger in my teens and I wonder if anyone can help and remember this word OK... it is impossible to float but when I woke from a dream one night I was face to the ceiling how or why did this happen to me.

WakkieRob,
I do not understand what you mean.
Almost every time I wake up from a dream, no matter what the drearm was, I face the ceiling.
Peace and kindness,
Fred