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Originally Posted by magprob

I said GOD in the flesh. If he is not one in the same with GOD then just how far removed is he. Splitting hairs! He was an immaculant conception so go figure!

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Since you ask for my views I will give them.
He was and still is closer to God than anyone else ever has been or will ever be. Yes, the Bible tells us he was sinless. But sinlessness does not mean that the sinless creature is God. Adam was sinless and was not God as well as the holy angels are sinless and they are not God. Immaculate conception means that Jesus' life force was transferred from heaven into Mary's womb. Which again doesn't automatically make him God.

Actually the Bible calls him the last Adam. In short, physically he had the same purity and uprightness of mind perfection body that Adam had before Adam sinned and fell from grace.

The scripture below speaks mankind's being created perfect.

Ecclesiastes 7:29
This only have I found: God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many schemes."


That is why Jesus is referred to as the last Adam. Because he was Adam's equivalent. The difference is that the last Adam, Jesus, brought us life via obedience while the first Adam brought us death via disobedience.


1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

The three persons of the Godhead are, at the same time, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16:

"I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit). The Trinity.

So not only do you say that Jesus is not GOD, I want you to tell me that the Holy Spirit is also not God. There are three aspects of GOD. The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. If you think that GOD cannot represent Himself in only three ways, then you are saying that GOD is not representing Itself in the millions of ways known as humans. The kingdom of heaven is in you. You are telling me that GOD is limited in the way that GOD interacts with humanity as well as the life force that makes a flower grow. Oh well, the human mind is very limited and trying to completely understand is truly a chore. I keep trying though.

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Originally Posted by magprob

The three persons of the Godhead are, at the same time, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16:

"I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit). The Trinity.

So not only do you say that Jesus is not GOD, I want you to tell me that the Holy Spirit is also not God. There are three aspects of GOD. The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. If you think that GOD cannot represent Himself in only three ways, then you are saying that GOD is not representing Itself in the millions of ways known as humans. The kingdom of heaven is in you. You are telling me that GOD is limited in the way that GOD interacts with humanity as well as the life force that makes a flower grow. Oh well, the human mind is very limited and trying to completely understand is truely a chore. I keep trying though.

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As I previously said, not all Christians are Trinitarian. Neither am I saying that God is limited in power. Those are your words not mine.


Isaiah 40:25-27

[QUOTE=Starman] Neither am I saying that God is limited in power.
Agree with that Starman!
God is definitely not limited in power, but we have limited skylines, it's us who don't see far enough, don't have the whole picture.
And so, we often don't follow.
Bye,
Millie

[QUOTE=milliec]

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Originally Posted by Starman

Neither am I saying that God is limited in power.
Agree with that Starman!
God is definitely not limited in power, but we have limited skylines, it's us who don't see far enough, don't have the whole picture.
And so, we often don't follow.
Bye,
Millie

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So what you are saying is that I am not following? Following who? The ideas of the Nicene Council? Please speak clearly. Otherwise your words can come across as indirects.

Starman,
I didn't mean you don't follow.
I was speaking about a very common trait of human beings, not only concerning God and faith issues, but even every day life.
Several years ago I wrote a small poem which can somehow enlighten what I mean here, though it was initiated by a completely different situation.
I wouldn't care sharing it here but it's in Hebrew, and I'm not sure I can translate it properly to English.
Bye,
Millie

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Originally Posted by milliec

Starman,
I didn't mean you don't follow.
I was speaking about a very common trait of human beings, not only concerning God and faith issues, but even every day life.
Several years ago I wrote a small poem which can somehow enlighten what I mean here, though it was initiated by a completely different situation.
I wouldn't care sharing it here but it's in Hebrew, and i"m not sure I can translate it properly to English.
Bye,
Millie

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Sounds interesting. So you speak and write Hebrew. Some Bible scholars say that Hebrew was the original language given man in Eden and that it remained unchanged during the Tower of Babel incident described in Genesis.. Tell me, are you able to understand the old Hebrew text?

About the poem, Yes, I know that much is lost in translation. But I would be interested
In reading it in any case. You can email it to me if you wish at [email protected]

I shouldn't be answering for Millie, but for me, I can read and write Hebrew (not speak), and I have read directly from the Torah scroll in the synagogue during a service, and understood what I read. The Torah scrolls are probably about as close to the original Hebrew text as we can get at this point. Also at home, I read the Torah in Hebrew most of the time. My Bible has English on one side and Hebrew on the other, plus some commentaries, so if I need to check the meaning of something I can just look on the other side of the page. Once I learned the letters, I've found that Hebrew isn't so difficult, to read at least. The understanding part has taken me a bit longer. Yiddish on the other hand... phew! Yiddish is basically a German dialect with some added Hebrew and I think Russian, but it's written using Hebrew letters. I can tell when a book is written in Yiddish rather than Hebrew, but that's about it. I find Yiddish hard to read. Whereas I can understand Yiddish when it's spoken... lol... go figure. ;)

I learned my Hebrew for my Bar Mitzvah and promptly forgot it afterwards. :o While my grnadmother was still alive, I could speak a little Yiddish, but that's pretty much gone as well. Ah well.

Scott<>

Hi!
I'm back after the "Seder"
Yours is still a couple of hours ahead - isn't it?
We ate too much (as usual) and promised ourselves to not cook so much next time. But tomorrow, everyone will come here foe a late lunch, about 4 p.m. plus some close friends.
How are you doing, Chava?
Starman - of course I am fluent in Hebrew. It's the language of our country over here.
Everything is in Hebrew.
The Hebrew language was "asleep", so to say for the approx. 2000 years of live outside our country.
It was considered a holy language, used only for religious matters, but kept alive by all the scholars.
In the eastern parts of europe, the language used by Jews was Yiddish. Originated from German, mainly, with some Hebrew touches here and there, "spiced" with the old, holy language. One of these words infiltrated American English: hutzpa=audacity. In every country were it was used, words of the local language were brought into yiddish.
That's how we ended with several jargons of a jargon. I know,now you probably sigh and think:... but Germany is not in East Europe!" you're right - have I ever said we're not a complicated nation?
If you wish there's more toit. And there's another Jewish jargon which originated in Spain: Ladino.
Back to yiddish, it's written with Hebrew letters, but, unlike Hebrew, it 's written with characters which stand for vowels.
Hebrew: when the Jews decided their only place in the world is their historical homeland, Eliezer Ben-Yehuda
brought it back to life. He lived in Jerusalem (was born In in Russia) - he forced all his family to speak only Hebrew, at a time when no one did!
He had to invent a lot of words which didn't exist at the time the Bible was written- he had to bring life to the language in the Bible , and make it accessible to daily life.
When the Dead-Sea Scrolls were found, it turned out that the Hebrew version today is exactly like the one used at the time these scrolls were written!
I don't know about the language in Eden. The Hebrew we know evolved from other semitic ancient languages.
The shape of the letters, though, is quite different from these used in the above mentioned scrolls.
Modern Hebrew is written almost without vowels, but, unlike the Bible, it's also stripped of the little dots which act as vowels in the holy texts. It's not as difficult like it sounds: you get used to it quickly, and when you do, you find out the little dots only slow you down!
Chava, I admire your Hebrew understanding
just from the English translation!
That's great!
One last thing: I promise!
The text in the Bible is sometimes enigmatic, and so, it got A LOT of interpretations by all the scholars who studied it.
Bye for now,
And A very happy Pesah!
Millie :)

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Originally Posted by Starman

About the poem, Yes, I know that much is lost in translation. But I would be interested
in reading it in any case. You can email it to me if you wish at [email protected]

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I will, but it will take me some time, with all the family now during Pesah . I really need some peace of mind to do it, but I've been already tossing it arouond in my mind.
Millie

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Originally Posted by milliec

Hi!
I'm back after the "Seder"
Yours is still a couple of hours ahead - isn't it?
We ate too much (as usual) and promised ourselves to not cook so much next time. But tomorrow, everyone will come here foe a late lunch, about 4 p.m. plus some close friends.
How are you doing, Chava?

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Yes from where I live here in western Canada, Israel is 9 hours ahead! So right now as I'm just recovering after the seder, having put the kids to bed, and getting ready for bed soon myself, you are just waking up! :)

Our first seder was awesomely delicious. My mother-in-law is here and she cooked a complete traditional Ashkenazi seder meal, complete with baking for dessert! I ate way too much of course and really regret it because now I feel the baby pushing on my stomach. Bleah. But otherwise yes I am doing a lot better since the fall.

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Starman - of course I am fluent in Hebrew. It's the language of our country over here.
Everything is in Hebrew.
The Hebrew language was "asleep", so to say for the approx. 2000 years of live outside our country...

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Thanks for the wonderful explanation about the Hebrew language. It was perfect! Very few people seem to realize that the Hebrew spoken today is pretty much identical to that spoken in biblical times. Anyway what an awesome post. I wanted to comment on it as usual GRRRR but once again I am not allowed to give you anymore reputation for now. Sigh.

Thanks dear!
Sweet dreams!
And I hope the food will not cause a problem.Cakes are forever a problem mine was difficult this time I had to pay atttention that it won't have milk! (that's a new thing - I don't think I should get too personal on a thread meant to deal with such a different topic!
As for the credits - I don't understand how they're given when and why, and once I wastn't allowed to start a thread - but I could after another min.
Sweet dreams, Millie

Well luckily for me my mother-in-law made the cakes, haha, so I didn't have to worry. We had a honey cake and an angel food cake. I think she might be making a whole bunch more for the children's seder tomorrow, too. I'm glad she's cooking and not me! :p

Regarding the credits, when I like what someone has posted, I like to leave a comment for them, which appears as a little box under your post. However, it seems I give out too many comments haha, so I'm always getting a message that I've given out too much reputation. Can I help it if I want to be nice to everyone?? :p

Have a good day!

Hi Milli.

Thank you for the information about the Hebrew language.
God bless!

BTW
I apologize for my previous misunderstanding.

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Originally Posted by milliec

As for the credits - I don;t understand how they're given when and why, and once i wastn't allowed to start a thread - but i could after another min.
Sweet dreams, Millie

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The Comments feature allows you to leave comment that appear as part of the note. This is a very important feature as it allows for affirmation or not of the quality of the advice within the post. The site also has features that prevent someone from spamming the board by setting the amount of time they have to wait before they can make another post.

Thanks Scott,
I'm not allowed to credit you right now, and I can see why you gave it up.
In any case, I think a thank you notice means more to the recipient, in any case.
Bye,
Millie :)

I saw the movie Da vinci Code seek the truth and lets say m dissapointed, its good but not the same as the book- which was fantastic for whatever it is worth in what it is suggesting. The movie didn't quite have the same ending and the actors not so convincingm but then for all readers, books are always better than the movie aye.

By the way I also agree that let each person decide for themselves what they believe or disbelive.