I don't care if they found the ark or not. I still believe in God anyway. I have some questions about the bible because I do believe that it was changed around to make certain people happy. Some man obviouslyrewrote the bible then put all this women shall bow to men junk in there and then said it was gods word and now because of him women are beaten, sold, and raped. Then they came along and made sure it said it was okay to have slaves. I will only believe what god tells me so I'm waiting for him to tell me what I need to know. Does anyone have his email address?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STONY

When It's Been Burried In Ice And Snow And Deprived Of Oxygen For Years And Years. Think About It...

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I have also found this interesting post about the supposed find of the Ark. Like you I am disappointed that the 'finder' has lied.

Let me next reproduce some email I sent to Mr. Jim Pinkoski last May at your request. Mr. Pinkoski operates the 'Museum of God's Treasures' at Gatlinburg, Tennessee, which features the claimed discoveries of Ron Wyatt.

Gary Amirault called me this morning and mentioned the email exchange he has been having with you concerning the character and veracity of Ron Wyatt. He mentioned your remark that the reason I did not support Ron's position that the boat-shaped site did indeed contain the remains of Noah's ark was concern for my job. Gary suggested I contact you directly and set the record straight on this point. My reasons for concluding the site has nothing to do with the ark are based on the geophysical surveys my team performed in 1987 together with the core drilling we performed in 1988 which revealed a massive ridge of inside the site and aligned with the site's long axis. This ridge actually outcrops at the surface over about 40% of the length of the site. The ridge accounts for the stability of the site relative to the surrounding terrain as well as for its distinctive boatlike shape. The rock material that comprises the ridge matches that in nearby outcrops, especially that in the roadcut above the visitor's center. Furthermore, the material Ron claims is petrified wood is nothing but igneous rock of basaltic composition. We have analyzed many samples of it here at our laboratory, and Ron is aware of these analyses.

Ron's assertion that I take the position I do because I am afraid I will lose my job is a falsehood. I am very bold in my creationist convictions here. For example, in February I presented a public lecture entitled "Exposing Evolution as Intellectual Fraud" in our community center. This has since been aired several times on our local cable television station.

I just wanted to make you aware of some of these matters. I could share much more on a variety of claims that Ron continues to make. I encourage you not just to take Ron's word that his claims are honest and true but to make some independent checks yourself.

Mr. Pinkoski shortly thereafter forwarded my email to a friend of his, Joel Davenport, who lives in Graysville, Georgia. Mr. Davenport then sent me a list of questions, which I answered as follows:

Dear Joel,

Let me try to give you some quick answers to your most reasonable questions.

1. Did you witness evidence of the metal rivets in this "igneous rock?"



--none whatsoever.

I have seen pictures of these rivets and wonder, based on what you state above, if they're from another site or from that location. Do you have any comments on that?



--I am almost 100% certain that Ron 'planted' them.

2. As a layman, it sure looks like petrified wood that he found (and I've seen a sample of it in Nashville). Is it your contention that Ron Wyatt fabricated this evidence or that he brought it from another location?



--Yes. I have spent weeks at this site and never once saw any sample that even remotely resembled petrified wood.

3. Are the "beams" (or "rib timbers") which I have seen in the video and on pictures not actual formations there at the site?



--The dark, weather-resistant rocks are genuine parts of the formation. They are of igneous composition. Calling them "beams" or "rib timbers" is something that comes from (Wyatt's) human imagination.

4. Do you believe that the object at that site, which you yourself have tested, is a natural phenomenom, or is it man-made? (I ask you this as an expert in your field.)



--it is the natural product of a geological process (a catastrophic mud slide)

And if so, were there not metal rivets throughout the object?



--absolutely not!

5. Were you misquoted or misrepresented in David Fasold's book which quoted you as testing the brackets and finding them at regular intervals throughout the formation?



--One sample we collected in June of 1985 was mostly iron oxide. But this was the only sample of this kind ever found there. And there was nothing about it to argue that it was not natural, especially given the fact that the underlying rock formation is a strip of igenous seafloor.

6. Was the article in that Fasold quotes in his book just a fabrication of David Fasold, or did you really "using a metal detector, Baumgardner has been able to confirm the existence of metal at regular intervals. Baumgardner says he believes that metal is at the points where these lines intersect, giving rise to the speculation metal was used in the infrastructure of this craft?"



--The method was a type of dowsing that David Fasold introduced and I naively copied. Upon discerning what it was, I forsook it.

Gary, I trust these excerpts of email from the last few months will give the visitors to your web site a better grasp of who is claiming what, regarding this boat-shaped formation. It should be evident that I, as a scientist with a Ph.D. in geophysics but also an earnest Christian, am absolutely convinced the site contains no remains of Noah's Ark. This conclusion was reached after eight trips to the area between 1985 and 1988 and two major geophysical investigations during the summers of 1987 and 1988 in collaboration with Dr. Salih Bayraktutan, a geologist, at Ataturk University in Erzurum, Turkey. In the 1987 effort we surveyed the site with ground penetrating radar that involved 72 separate traverses spaced two meters apart. We also took 1200 magnetometer readings in a detailed magnetometer survey. In addition we made several traverses with an exploration seismograph. In the 1988 effort we drilled four core holes and performed additional seismograph scans. It was the results of the core drilling that revealed, with no room for debate, that a long ridge-shaped block of rock lies along the centerline of the site. Mud flowing around this obstacle is responsible for the almond, or boat-like shape. The dark colored boulders are pieces of the igneous seafloor rocks that happen to underlie the site. The glaring absence of human artifacts of the sort implied by the visitation of multitudes of pilgrims reported by historians like Josephus is a final forceful argument against this being the true resting place of the Ark.

Also from these excerpts it should be clear that I consider Wyatt's misrepresentation of my views as morally wrong and dishonest. But his deception of multitudes of Christians who have not had the opportunity to check his claims firsthand as I have is an even worse crime. I give you permission to use these words of mine to warn people of this snare.

Sincerely,

John Baumgardner
Los Alamos, New Mexico


MORGANITE

Yeah yeah. Again people. What is Gods email address?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobbye

"...where are his prophets and apostles?"

"The Twelve" were "Foundational Apostles." Once the Foundation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was laid, there was no need for "foundational apostles." In fact, we will never have another "Twelve" or "foundational apostles." "Other foundations can no man lay than that which is laid" -- which is Christ Jesus!

HOWEVER, the Bible lists some 13-14 additional apostles, who were not of The Twelve. The Apostle Paul was one of them. These apostles were "sent" to preach the Gospel (the foundation that was laid) of Jesus Christ.
Blessings,

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After Judas had lost his place in the twelve, another was chosen to keep the number at 12 (Acts 2).

The purpose and duration of an apostolic ministry is according to St Paul For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Until we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

These conditions have not been met. If St Paul is correct, the apostolic college of twelve special witnesses who were called and ordained by Christ is a continuing necessity until the conditions are met.

Its absence nust be a matter of deepest concern for Christians.



MORGANITE



:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crankiebabie

yeah yeah. again people. What is Gods email address?

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You got me there. I don't have a clue. You'll have to tell me.

I can see that to deal with you we are going to have to raise the level of debate. You are one impressive guy!




MORGANITE



:eek:

What Im merely saying is that yes I in my heart believe in God. But has the bible not been rewritten several times and maybe even reworded too? Im not a perfect Know it all christian. If anything I could use some improvement.

Oh and the email address thing? Just a little joke.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crankiebabie

Oh and the email address thing? just a little joke.

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Awe, heck!

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSchultz0956

I was wondering what people thought about prophets. In the bible it is made known that God revealeth nothing except it be through his servants the prophets. Further, Christ said that he organized his church on prophets, apostles, evangelists, teachers, etc. My question to you is, has God closed the windows of heaven? If not, where are his prophets and apostles? The orginazation of Christ's church had 12 apostles, why do we not see a need for them now? How can God reveal His truth without them? or are we left alone on this dark earth? Is this not why so many different religions have formed? I just want to know what people think about these questions.

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God reveals his truth through his holy spirit:


"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth. ... Teaches: "... for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say." Luke 12:12...


Psalm 143:10
Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.

Psalm 143:9-11
1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

After the Apostles were gone, God continued to dispense his truths via his holy spirit.


But your question seems to be based on the disconinuity that occurred after the apostles died. Did you know that Jesus and the apostles themselves foresaw this and prophesied about this turning away turning from he pure Christian teachings after the they were gone.

Acts 20:29
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter among you, not sparing the flock.

2 Timothy 4:2-4

2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.



The process had started even before the Apostles fell asleep in death as Paul pointed out:


2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (King James Version)

13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.




Jesus had prophesied about this turning away by comparing the earth to a field where two kinds of crops are sown.
He tells us that the evil one would sow his seed among the wheat when the men fell asleep.

Jesus gave us the key to understanding what he meant by sleep by referring to death repeatedly as sleep.

John 11:11
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.


John 11:14
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

His Apostles too continued to compare death to sleep.


Acts 7:60
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Acts 7:59-61 (in Context) Acts 7 (Whole Chapter) 1 Corinthians 15:6
After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:5-7
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15:17-19
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:12-14
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The field remains oversewn with tares, false Christians, until the harvest. Then Jesus tells us that during the harvest, angels would separate the wheat from the weeds. This harvest is end times and we are living during this separation time today. In short, the situation that you describe was foreseen by both Jesus and his apostles and the consequences of the situation would be a separation of true followers of Jesus from false followers. So we are simply seeing the fulfillment of prophecy, nothing more--no need for concern. All is proceeding as was foreseen.

Matthew 13:24-26 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.



As Jesus himself explained:


36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

KJV

STONY-

I agree with the "THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN"

AND yes, if one hears GOD'S voice & shares as in the following scriptures- Then he/she has the gift of prophecy. I don't know why some people have trouble believing that some Christians Spirit is in proper alignment (spirit, soul, body) --
that they DO hear the voice of God!! Holy Moly! I've gotten a message dozens of times, usually in prayer-- but sometimes out of the blue!

I had a pastor in Ft. Lauderdale who had the anointing. I spent 2yrs. Attending that Church. What an experience. My best buddy & me every Sunday...

Anyway, here's the scripture I wanted to post in regards to prophetic question:

1 Corinthians- 13:1- 2
LOVE - And now I will show you the most excellent way. If I speak in the tongues (or languages) of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1 Corinthians- 14:1-5
Gifts of Prophecy and Tongues - Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who spesks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit(or by the Spirit) But everyone who phophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongue, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.


Oh well, just another day for you & me in paradise. Even that song by Phil Collins- Has some kind of spiritual value to me... Shall I go on?. Even the best fall down sometimes; even the... something something da da da... you and I collide... :eek:

It is worth recognising what is written in the Apocalypse:

The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

M:)RGANITE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You earn my respect with every post you make.

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He has respect as well!

I think it is a tough thing being Christ like in a christian world dominated by rules of man and church rather than that of Christ. I often wonder what the real words and standards of Christ were compared to what is the latest "christian trend". So many years, so many minds, so many translations. If only we could for a moment experience the purity of Christ.
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To be blunt, this is why non christians have an issue with Christians. If ever the day comes when the religious world come to terms with the idea and acceptance that whatever anyone believes is OK, will be a major turning point in the lives of humans.

It is OK to believe anything you wish! God has no religion!

There are many "prophets" and holy people of every dogma and spiritual path. You, him, her, me, them, we are all prophets of "God". Maybe if people saw this they wouldnt live in the dark staring at the light.

Hypatia

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hypatia

It is ok to believe anything you wish! God has no religion!

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In short, everyone can be a law unto himself.
That means that if you believe in animal torture as part of your religion it's OK. If you believe that gang rape and murder is part of your religion that's swell. If you believe in theft--well, God has no religion so go ahead. Which of course means that you have no God at all. Correct?

Honestly Starman, NO. I believe religion is a crutch for weak minds and unmindful people who choose to skirt responsibility for their actions.

I think for man to dictate and try to spread like disease their own interpretation of a being called God, to insist on the facets of God by order and association the true shame and idocy of mankind.

Who is anyone to label and categorically place such a God? What power does a man truly posess when he tries to prevent others from the God experience by the rule of church or temple?

If I have no God or do who has the right to judge me or condemn me?

To do the mindfull thing does not need religion as a guide. It only needs love and acceptance. Moral value stems not from the bible or other religious book but from the hearts of man. Religion is a tool for those who are too weak to follow their mindful heart. A tool for barbarians to master gentile soceity.

This is my opinion. Religion is crap.

Hypatia

And just to clear something up, you said " That means that if you believe in animal torture as part of your religion it's OK."
Ha! Try looking at the church and reading how many people they have murdered, tourtured, forcefully converted, and so on. How many "witches" were burned in the name of God and religion?

It is ok for the church to torture animals, murder children, burn heretics. They only have to find a scripture in the bible or other text they can reinterpret to suit their needs. If that fails they simply rewrite the bible. King James did it.

Hypatia

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hypatia

And just to clear something up, you said " That means that if you believe in animal torture as part of your religion it's OK."
Ha! Try looking at the church and reading how many people they have murdered, tourtured, forcefully converted, and so on. How many "witches" were burned in the name of God and religion?

It is ok for the church to torture animals, murder children, burn heretics. They only have to find a scripture in the bible or other text they can reinterpret to suit their needs. If that fails they simply rewrite the bible. King James did it.

Hypatia

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You are referring to apostates. Only apostates whould go against the teachings of Jesus in reference to loving neighbor as self.

Hypatia,

I am taking the time out of my busy day to respond to you because I feel there is some misunderstanding here.

Notice that the questioner (SShultz) asked a legitimate "believers" question? Well. Then notice how the one with" a professed no religion " comes in with a comment or even a sarcastic question about the Bible being a work of fiction..?. Woe to that! The Devil is real. Those that" buy "into the lies are the lost. And you can see some TRUE BELIEVERS on this thread. Maggie B, another new member, and Solarman (sorry I didn't remember your name right Solarman!) Actually, (if I knew how to" save " my post, I'd go back and get his name right- but of course I really do" bite" when it comes to the computer.)

Anyway, he had a post that was most excellent. It was erased but it explained about Jesus and God. Now, the teachings of Christ are for men (and furthermore, for believing men) And Jesus has to do with the body -- or the Church. Now, for a woman ( or a sister in Christ ) I put my trust in the Almighty One! Hebrews 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to plese God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

And that is the only cause and effect I'll ever believe in!


The Spirit of the Lord . Hallelujah! :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hypatia

Honestly Starman, NO. I believe religion is a crutch for weak minds and unmindful people who choose to skirt responsibility for their actions.

I think for man to dictate and try to spread like disease their own interpretation of a being called God, to insist on the facets of God by order and association the true shame and idocy of mankind.

Who is anyone to label and categorically place such a God? What power does a man truly posess when he tries to prevent others from the God experience by the rule of church or temple?

If I have no God or do who has the right to judge me or condemn me?

To do the mindfull thing does not need religion as a guide. It only needs love and acceptance. Moral value stems not from the bible or other religious book but from the hearts of man. Religion is a tool for those who are too weak to follow their mindful heart. A tool for barbarians to master gentile soceity.

This is my opinion. Religion is crap.

Hypatia

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Considering your views I can undestand why you have concluded that religion is crap. But the problem seems to be that you are confusing Christianity with apostasy. The two have nothing in common and neither do their adherents. As for judging, no man has a right to judge another man as eternally damned. Tha't's only for God to decide.

Correction to a word in my post- I'm changing "ALMIGHTY ONE" to" ALMIGHTY"

Just keeping Christ in the picture... Lord!

Before we get lost in conversation and more off topic.........I will answer the question presented by SSchultz0956.

"Has God closed the windows of heaven? If not, where are his prophets and apostles? "

I think we are the "windows" of God. Every person, animal, rock, tree etc is a living embodiment, a living experience of God. That which IS. Like appendages we are not detached from the body though we can sometimes feel far from the heart.
We are the prophets, the messengers, the voices of God. God speaks in every action every non action. We only have to see the wisdom in these experiences. We need no burning bush or messiah to know God. We need no labeled savior or person labeled special to hear God.
God is right here. Gods messengers are right here. Recognize your potential and be what you dream. I am that I am.

Hypatia