Ask Me Help Desk - The New Jerusalem

AJ,
I disagree. Paul said last trumpet. He didn't say 7th. That's biblical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrotia

It wasn't a girl who came up with the rapture view. It was a prophetess from a Catholic Apostolic Church in 1830 Scotland.

No further comment is necessary at this point.

I'm not commenting on what you wrote about the millennium(except that you failed to describe where "we" will be during that time)

If you mean "we" as in you and I, we could be in our graves at that time. If "we" means faithful Christians, we will be present to witness the great power and majesty of God's prophecy as it unfolds before "our" eyes. "We" will be protected: "And the woman (Christ's bride, the Church) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." Revelation 12:6

As far as a rapture, well, the gathering up to meet the Lord in the air is not the same as Jesus' coming the 2nd time.

So Who is that Who comes the second time if it isn't Christ?

The horrendous events take place mostly in the last 3& 1/2 yrs. when the Antichrist sets himself up in the temple & claims to be God. You really need to read Daniel & other Old Testament prophecies in addition to the N.T. to get a grasp on the book of Revelation.

I am truly happy to see that the Old Testament isn't as outdated as you used to think it was. That's a good thing. I have more highlights and underlines in Daniel than Wiccan girls have in their hair. Just kidding. I love the book of Daniel. That book certainly says zero about a rapture.

Oh I know that Revelation describes a time that will be totally unlike any other time in History. It will be just as dramatic and earth shattering as Noah's flood. Faithful Noah, by the way, was present during that mind boggling tribulation period. He was in a place appointed by God; the ark. The events that take place in Revelation are birth pains. It will be the end of one era and the beginning of another. Christ will finally reign supreme. All those who commit iniquity and offend God will be gone and the righteous will shine forth like the sun in Christ's freshly established Kingdom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrotia

AJ,
I disagree. Paul said last trumpet. He didn't say 7th. That's biblical.

The last trump is the 7th trump.

1st Trump... Revelation 8:7
2nd Trump... Revelation 8:8
3rd Trump... Revelation 8:10
4th Trump... Revelation 8:12
5th Trump... Revelation 9:1
6th Trump... Revelatin 9:13
7th (and final) Trump... Revelation 11:15

Not only open your Bible to verify the above, read the events that correspond with the 7 trumps. You will find that Christ returns at the 7th and final trump. Then read I Thessalonians 4:16 and see Who returns with the sounding of that "trump." Then read Matthew 24:30-31 and check out Who returns to gather His elect at the sound of that "trump." It's a good thing. God bless.

Hmm. Doesn't sound like you even read Rev. because you mention everything but.
Hmm... I think even the average post-tribber knows more!
Post-trib fallacy: Some claim that when Paul wrote to the Corinthians of Jesus' coming at the "last trumpet," he meant the seventh trumpet in Revelation. The problem with this reasoning is Paul wrote in such a way that his readers would know what he was talking about. They had no idea of the seven trumpets in Revelation, because that was not revealed until several decades later. We should look backward in the prophetic record for "trumpets" with which to identify or compare the "last trumpet," rather than forward, because that is what the original audience was expected to do. Otherwise, we assume things that the original audience could not possibly know, and therefore would certainly not understand. Our premise is that the original audience was expected to understand what they were told.

BTW, in your description, what happened to the New Jerusalem? When do we go in it?
That's what the original question was about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrotia

Post-trib fallacy: Some claim that when Paul wrote to the Corinthians of Jesus' coming at the "last trumpet," he meant the seventh trumpet in Revelation. The problem with this reasoning is Paul wrote in such a way that his readers would know what he was talking about. They had no idea of the seven trumpets in Revelation, because that was not revealed until several decades later.

I was under the impression that the Bible is the Word of God...not men. And since God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, it would make sense that He knew of the times to come even if Paul did not. However, I believe that Paul knew more than you give him credit for. Paul was given a vision of things to come; John was given a clearer vision. Paul never said that it was NOT the last or 7th trumpet.

We should look backward in the prophetic record for "trumpets" with which to identify or compare the "last trumpet," rather than forward, because that is what the original audience was expected to do. Otherwise, we assume things that the original audience could not possibly know, and therefore would certainly not understand. Our premise is that the original audience was expected to understand what they were told.

Actually, the audience then wasn't much different than the audience now. We are all to look in both directions. Learn from the past and prepare for the future. Christ quoted Old Testament Scripture AND He prophesied of things to come.

BTW, in your description, what happened to the New Jerusalem? When do we go in it?
That's what the original question was about.

The New Jerusalem is that Holy City that comes from heaven and is re-established here on earth with the return of Christ. He will sit on the throne at the right hand of the Father in that great city. The entire chapter of Revelation 21 says it better than I can (especially the beautiful language of the Authorized King James Bible).

AJ,
I found a website which is such a blessing to all. I'll paste the link of one page, but you can type in Revelation 11:15-19 on upper right side of the page to get a description of the 7th Trumpet & what happens then, & why "we"don't believe that that's the last trumpet.- Defending The Pre-Trib Rapture (Again)
Anyone, let me know if you liked the website!
Love & Peace,
Always- Retrotia :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrotia

It wasn't a girl who came up with the rapture view. It was a prophetess from a Catholic Apostolic Church in 1830 Scotland.
I'm not commenting on what you wrote about the millennium(except that you failed to describe where "we" will be during that time)
As far as a rapture, well, the gathering up to meet the Lord in the air is not the same as Jesus' coming the 2nd time. The horrendous events take place mostly in the last 3& 1/2 yrs. when the Antichrist sets himself up in the temple & claims to be God. You really need to read Daniel & other Old Testament prophecies in addition to the N.T. to get a grasp on the book of Revelation.
And the Holy Spirit working in the Church is what must be taken out of the way before
the anti-christ is revealed. The falling away from the faith has already happened & is happening in the end-times.
Christians are split on whether we will be caught up in the air (this is for those living at the time) before the 7yr Trib. or before the last 31/2yrs.
When you study Rev. you will see that there are only late converts, the protected 144,000,
& the protected 2 witnesses from Rev. 6 on to 19.
We already came out of the Great Tribulation by Ch.7. Whether we experienced whatever was before in Ch.6, maybe, bc you have to be in something to come out of it. But don't confuse the 7 trumpet with the last trumpet. The trumpets are judgments.
I really think you should at least look into sources that describe the book of Revelation.
You will see that it will be like no other time in history of the earth. There will not be anything controlled my friend, people will be running for their lives. The size of the boulders of hail alone with fire on people, from just one of the angels.
I have to go. You can read up on Revelation yourself.(not kidding)
Peace.

SAINTS...we must remember that heresy comes into the church riding on the back of a half-truth. Possibly, it, does not make any difference how the "watering down" of the Gospel came to attempt to discredit the mighty doctrine of the "catching away", or Rapture of the Church. The most important thing here is that there WILL be a Rapture. Period!
Each of us have full opportunity right now to make certain that we're "READY" to go should it happen this minute.
FOR THOSE OF THE PERSUASION THAT THERE WILL NOT BE A RAPTURE, EVERYONE OF US BETTER BE UNITED ON THE FACT THAT WE NEED NOT GET DISTRACTED FROM THE REAL ISSUE HERE:THAT OF LIVING AS CLOSE TO THE LORD AS WE CAN...AND WITNESSING FOR HIM!!!!!