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  • May 11, 2008, 03:42 PM
    workerbee
    Hey skygem, I want to ask one thing If you answer try to be polite and I will respond politely. We may not agree with each other but we should listen. Here is my question
    Just because it is written in the Bible means nothing What other sources do you have to prove that angels,demons exist? If none other then you must see my point. Many, many problems with that book The Bible can say what it wants but that doesn't mean anything. Let me give an example you will ignore but I hope you will try to read because it is a fact. Prayer, we always hear about it but it NEVER works. Here is how we know. The AHJ decided to answer this question once and for all it conducted a 3 year, 2.4 million dollar, 1800 (heart)patient. No one got better The conclusion was that prayer does not work. I can post the link if you like but I doubt you will read it. The only prayer that seems to work is vague prayer like I hope it rains, sooner or later it will rain. That kind of thing
    If you really want to learn more read what Bibical scholars know it is very interesting

    workerbee
  • May 11, 2008, 07:04 PM
    SkyGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    Hey skygem, I want to ask one thing If you answer try to be polite and i will respond politely. We may not agree with each other but we should listen. Here is my question
    Just because it is written in the Bible means nothing

    It actually means EVERYTHING! The Bible is the inspired Word of God. There are some who misinterpret the Bible, however, to suit their own purposes but that does not change God's word from being infallable. I do not expect you to understand that as you are obviously anti-Christian. If you want to learn more about Christianity, however, and that's why you're here in a Christian forum, then I would be most happy to help you.

    What other sources do you have to prove that angels,demons exist?

    Christians do not need "other sources" as skeptics do in order to prove the existence of angels and demons.

    I have quoted from the Holy Bible offering proof of the existence of demons. You may of course choose to not believe if that is your leaning. As to angels, there is an angel of the Annunciation that announced when Jesus was going to be born. Aside from that this is what Scripture says about angels (there are many more Scriptural passages besides these):

    "And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city." -- GENESIS 19:15 (KJV)

    "And Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him." -- GENESIS 32:1 (KJV)

    "The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, the holy place." -- PSALMS 68:17 (KJV)

    "For He shall give His angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways." -- PSALM 91:11 (KJV)

    "So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. " -- MATTHEW 13:49-50 (KJV)

    There are so many other references to God's angels as well as to demons, as I have quoted before. If you, however, want to know about man's experiences with demons or angels, I am sure you can simply Google the phrase or word intended and come up with great information!

    We Christians believe our God Jesus Christ (who is ONE in the Holy Trinity) and that suffices for us. Un-believers, by virtue of their pseudonym, do not believe how we could, but we can and that is what makes us Strong Christians. However, for those who have a different religion or viewpoint, there is empirical evidence sustaining the fact that angels and demons indeed do exist. It is obvious that you are not open to learning about the Christian religion, therefore, I feel further discussion would fall on deaf ears and would prove to be an exercise in futility as well as detract from my time in helping those who come here who truly want to learn about Christianity. As a matter of principle, I do not discuss Christianity with those who do not want to learn more about it or have a closed mind. For those with an open mind, I am always happy to discuss matters further as they search for Christ.

    if none other then you must see my point. Many, many probelms with that book The Bible can say what it wants but that doesn't mean anything.

    You will remember what you said when you make your transition and stand before God in judgment. But you will not have to explain to me why you did not believe, but to God. I hope you amend your ways of thinking before your appointed time comes for you to pass. I say that because God created you too and despite your sheer reluctance to accept Him that is an undeniable fact.

    let me give an example you will ignore but I hope you will try to read because it is a fact. Prayer, we always hear about it but it NEVER works.

    Prayer works for those Christians who Believe and have Faith and who have given their life to Jesus since they are now aligned with Him, He, likewise is closer to them in their time of need. I will not speak as to other religions and what they believe since we are a Christianity forum. If prayer does not work for you or other atheists then you need look no further than your lack of belief. The moment you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior things would start to change so that your view point would actually change also about prayer. Try it and see! What would it hurt but your ego yet your life would surely change and if you became Born Again you would be given Salvation what every Christian looks forward to at the point of their passing. That may not mean much to you now but believe me, it WILL when it comes time!

    here is how we know. The AHJ decided to answer this question once and for all it conducted a 3 year, 2.4 million dollar, 1800 (heart)patient. No one got better The conclusion was that prayer does not work. I can post the link if you like but I doubt you will read it. The only prayer that seems to work is vague prayer like I hope it rains, sooner or later it will rain. That kind of thing
    If you really want to learn more read what Bibical scholars know it is very interesting

    workerbee

    When prayer does not work it is because of different factors. One of them could be the person's lack of belief that they will actually be healed. Secondly, there are people who simply want to hold on to their dis-ease simply because being ill can get them the help and attention they might not otherwise have received. Likewise, they may not want to truly change or strange as it may seem, some people's heart is not in wanting to get well so God actually honors their request. Thirdly, there may be lessons that were pre-ordained that the person may need to learn with that illness. If they did not undergo that kind of trial with the illness they may never learn what must be learned for greater spiritual elevation. Know that not everyone who cries out "Lord, Lord!" is going to be healed. There is so much more to that and a person has to be with God and with His teachings in order for God to truly feel a positive benefit to their health is warranted. And surely, to make a person well, as in to heal those who simply want to continue to sin and cause others to sin would not be conducive to the true principles of Divine healing.

    Like I said, if you want to learn more on how to become a Christian and that is why you have entered into this forum, I will be glad to work with you and continue to have discourse but if you merely want to present your point of view that is diametrically opposed to the teachings of Christianity in order to take my time which is better used to help those wanting to learn more about God and to align with Him, then I must help those who are seeking Christ in their life. I hope you understand my mission as I do yours.
  • May 12, 2008, 09:58 AM
    workerbee
    Well, skygem you answered politely, so thanks for that, you should not be so quick to dismiss what I say about prayer. I was a Chrsitian for many years but I always thought it was nonsense so I started reading from scholars, people who make a living knowing the Bible, it's history etc. That's how I changed over the years to become an Atheist. If you believe in prayer you can try this which will fail. Go and pray for an amputee, so he/her gets back a limb. Guarantee will not work. You and others will have excuses but the answer is that prayer is not real. I think the reason Atheism is growing worldwide is because people are tired of waiting for prayer to work, or jesus coming down, all of the empty promises. I think everyone is now realizing that these are just stories, superstitions, fokelore, that kind of thing

    workerbee
  • May 12, 2008, 05:15 PM
    SkyGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    Well, skygem you answered politely, so thanks for that, you should not be so quick to dismiss what i say about prayer. I was a Chrsitian for many years but i always thought it was nonsense so i started reading from scholars, people who make a living knowing the Bible, it's history etc. That's how I changed over the years to become an Athiest. If you believe in prayer you can try this which will fail. Go and pray for an amputee, so he/her gets back a limb. Guarantee will not work. You and others will have excuses but the answer is that prayer is not real. I think the reason Atheism is growing worldwide is because people are tired of waiting for prayer to work, or jesus coming down, all of the empty promises. I think everyone is now realizing that these are just stories, superstitions, fokelore, that kind of thing

    workerbee

    Greetings. I decided to respond to you again because of what you have said in your posting that you were a Christian once. Many people who start as being Christians are mislead in one way or another to believe "man's" way. And of course, that leads to the ultimate deception because you and I both know that many in the world today are not Believers in the Word of God. Therefore, they will try to confuse the issue and bring in information that would try to dispute Biblical healings. That they cannot do but they will present an argument, much like yours about the amputee. Trying to regrow a limb is possible but only with the help of God. Man's desire by itself, no matter how strong, is still no match for God's healing since God has to first give His permission for healing to occur. And of course, if one tried to go to an amputee right now and pray for his or her leg to grow back, it more than likely would not simply because God will not be mocked in that manner. God does not have to prove anything to anyone. It is like the devil tempting Jesus at the top of the mountain. Jesus responded by saying "Get thee behind me satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve." (LUKE 4:8 (KJV) This was a great temptation by the adversary and thus many of his followers today will use the same kind of tactics to try to get good Christians to try "experiments" just to see how successful they are. What those people who may be so foolish as to try to take them up on that may not realize is that when trying to perform such a feat, the Power is all in Jesus not on the individual testing Jesus and it is an affront to Him to test God and His healing since all healing comes from God. Those who would try to mock God or test Him will also find the fruits of their labor in due time and let me tell you the results won't be very pretty.

    I'm afraid the real danger is in non-Believers who try to portray themselves as somehow being superior to God because of their beliefs. They must remember that God created them too! He does allow them to carry on simply because He gave them Free Will choice but there are consequences in the end they must remember. So, they must be cautious as to how far they go with this line of deception. Somehow, I feel there is a side to you that is searching for a way to come back to Christianity. You have been led here for a reason. If the stifling power of atheism has not got a complete stronghold on you, and even if it has, there is still Hope! Search deep inside yourself and see the side that was once Strong and Happy in knowing that you were not alone and that an animal did not make you, nor a tree, nor a rock but GOD! And you are still God's child but have been terribly misled by the company you keep and what you read. Deep down you still know that but cannot acknowledge it because of the stranglehold this belief system has on you. Let me know if you want to know more about how to RELEASE this stranglehold. I can work with you if you wish and would be most happy to!

    Now, concerning your hypothesis that prayer does not work, I would like for you to take a good look at the following Internet websites that offer a much different opinion and even EVIDENCE to the contrary. Before you say no, look at these, read through them and then come back and tell me if there is any comparable power in the Universe, other than God, who could accomplish all those things through prayer.

    A great website full of testimonies not only from individuals but from prestigious universities, etc. attesting to the power of prayer!
    Miracles of Prayer :: Research Studies

    Great Testimonies from wonderful people! Can Prayer Heal?

    A fantastic website and not just for Christians! Testimonies of how God has answered our prayers

    Please keep an Open Mind when you read what many professionals and others are saying and you should soon find that there is evidence to the contrary of what you have been taught or the opinion you have reached about prayer.
  • May 13, 2008, 12:13 PM
    workerbee
    Trying to grow a limb with prayer is impossible, it has never happened and been researched I might add. No one is mocking God. I learned years ago prayer doesn't work because I tired praying for people when I was young they had physical problems, never worked no matter how hard I tried, at the time I thought the problem was me, but the truth God does not exist. As far as the links you gave me testimonials don't mean much so I didn't read all of them They had people invetisgate these faith healers many people went onstage screaming they were cured next day they talked to people that claimed they were cured and were in fact not. They were caught up in the moment, and peer pressure that sort of thing. Pretty interesting no one of the hundreds that claimed cures were not cured after all. As far as the first link I wanted to address that , they are vague in other words if you think you will be cured you might in fact feel better but that is not God it is power of suggestion. That's how new medicines are tested, you need to weed out power of suggestion (placebo)so the AHJ fixing flaws in earlier studies (like power of suggetion) launched the biggest study that I have ever heard about and the conclusion was Prayer does not work though they use bigger words
    Please read the link and this was made in2006 the latest research out there. Placebo effect cannot cure amputees, or people with a severed spine, etc that is why I use that as an example. The mind is powerful that is why studies like I posted need to be acurate, so I say again prayer unfortunately does not work. Like I said before pray for someone in a wheelchair see what the results will be
    American Heart Journal - Abstract: Volume 151(4) April 2006 p 934-942 Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: A multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certainty of receiving intercessory pra
    The bible is just stories like Noah's ark You know that didn't happen I hope How can yopu get the 30 million known land species on a boat? You might try to read what scholars know about the bible. Reading from just religious writers is one sided
    Anyway read the link
    Just so you know I am not trying to convert you I was just answering the question about demons

    workerbee
  • May 13, 2008, 05:49 PM
    SkyGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    The bible is just stories like Noah's ark You know that didn't happen i hope How can yopu get the 30 million known land species on a boat?

    God can truly do the IMPOSSIBLE or what may seem 'impossible' to man! Just read MATTHEW 17:20 (KJV) and PHILLIPPIANS 4:13 (KJV). When God guided Noah to build the ark, He knew the capacity it could hold and there is absolutely no good reason for Christians to doubt what God does. Absolutely none, though man may purport to have the answers about what God does and may try to use inaccurate and abstract thinking in the process, it will never compare with God's INFALLIBLE Word.

    You might try to read what scholars know about the bible. reading from just religious writers is one sided
    anyway read the link

    You have to also understand that a great many medical people are not Christian. There are many atheists among them and of course their information would have that slant! This is important to know for balance to the situation. And medicine/science always wants to prove things through empirical evidence. With God's work and His Omnisicent Power, things cannot be readily explained by mere mortals and never will be.

    Just so you know I am not trying to convert you i was just answering the question about demons

    workerbee

    Of course you aren't, because you know it wouldn't work in my case. But I have enjoyed having this conversation with you, and as mentioned previously, I must now turn my full attention to helping those who are truly seeking God.
  • May 14, 2008, 07:22 AM
    workerbee
    SkyGem, you keep quoting the Bible and saying others might be slanted but the Bible is slanted and it has mistranslations. When one person decides that the Bible is infallible then you close your mind to anything else this is where problems happen. Other religions think there way is best which can cause wars, etc. The Bible was written by angry hateful men with little education, period

    workerbee
  • May 14, 2008, 09:39 AM
    sassyT
    [QUOTE]
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    SkyGem, you keep quoting the Bible and saying others might be slanted but the Bible is slanted and it has mistranslations.

    What mistranslations?

    Quote:

    When one person decides that the Bible is infallible then you close your mind to anything else this is where problems happen.
    Because it is.. It is the only absolute truth we have in this world. Every other truth is relative.

    Quote:

    The Bible was written by angry hateful men with little education, period
    This your opinion not fact.
  • May 14, 2008, 05:14 PM
    SkyGem
    [quote=sassyT]
    Quote:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by workerbee
    SkyGem, you keep quoting the Bible and saying others might be slanted but the Bible is slanted and it has mistranslations.

    what mistranslations??

    Quote:
    When one person decides that the Bible is infallible then you close your mind to anything else this is where problems happen.

    because it is.. It is the only absolute truth we have in this world. Every other truth is relative.

    Quote:
    The Bible was written by angry hateful men with little education, period

    This your opinion not fact.
    Yes, sassyT, you are correct in this. Your replies are in purple. In addition, those interested may wish to look at the following most informative Internet website! You may also wish to pay close attention to the paragraph on "SIR WILLIAM RAMSEY".

    The Holy Bible, Proof the Holy Bible is true, Proof the Holy Bible has supernatural origins, the Bible & the Torah Codes, Bible sermons messages articles by Max Solbrekken World missions, www.mswm.org..
  • May 15, 2008, 09:20 AM
    workerbee
    A lot of the Bible are just stories not history you people are so closed minded it's scary. Here is one example of a mistranslation. The crossing of the Red sea never happened the bible actually says they crossed the sea of reeds. When that part was translated it was assumed they meant the red sea. The marsh area the jews crossed ( by the way there is NO evidence that this story is even remotely true)
    That area is 8 to 10 inches of water and at low tide is dry. When you say a LIE long enough it becomes the truth.

    workerbee
  • May 15, 2008, 06:08 PM
    SkyGem
    The original question concerning demons has taken a serious turn 180 degrees to the other side by anti-Christians in an attempt to obfuscate the original question and issue in support of demons, I'm afraid. If there is a way to do this, they will find it, be assured of that! There are some who visit here who have brought out absurdities and endless theories as there are their theorists. One such thing is the Red Sea vs. Sea of Reed thing. The Holy Bible actually says the Red Sea is what Moses parted at God's direction. This is referred to actually as the Red Sea in HEBREWS 11:29 (KJV). Another factor about the "reed thing" is that reeds do not grow in salt water! And the Sea of Reeds is a swampy area to the North of the Red Sea, not where Pharaoh's army was drowned by God's Power. Reeds, incidentally, are also known as papyrus which the Egyptians used and continue to use today. 1 KINGS 9:26 shows it is the RED SEA. If what the anti-Christians are actually saying were to be true, then Pharaoh's army would have DROWNED in the 8 TO 10 inches of water they passed through! We must then deduct How WONDERFUL is God's Power to take care of these soldiers in such a small amount of water!

    God, again, can truly Perform Miracles! Of course, closed-minded skeptics, especially heretics, will never understand that or want to understand that. The attempt to discredit Biblical Truths will continue, most unfortunately, under the guise that man knows more than God. But God actually allows this, just to Prove them WRONG in the end. Since they do not appear to realize this, their games will thus, most likely, continue but God's Glory will indeed Prove Them Wrong at God's appointed time.
  • May 16, 2008, 07:11 AM
    workerbee
    Skygem you are correct that this thread took a 180 degree turn. Now let me answer you question. First off I am not making this up. Read below
    However, apart from the matter of the number of people is an even more significant issue. The problem is that the biblical account never refers to the Red Sea by name. In fact, nowhere in the entire Old Testament Hebrew text is the body of water associated with the exodus ever called the "Red Sea." Instead in the Hebrew text the reference is to the yam suph. The word yam in Hebrew is the ordinary word for "sea," although in Hebrew it is used for any large body of water whether fresh or salt. The word suph is the word for "reeds" or "rushes," the word used in Ex. 2:3, 5 to describe where Moses' basket was placed in the Nile. So, the biblical reference throughout the Old Testament is to the "sea of reeds" (e.g. Num 14:25, Deut 1:40, Josh 4:23, Psa 106:7. etc.).

    The translation "Red Sea" is simply a traditional translation introduced into English by the King James Version through the second century BC Greek Septuagint and the later Latin Vulgate. It then became a traditional translation of the Hebrew terms. However, many modern translations either translate yam suph as "Sea of Reeds" or use the traditional translation and add a footnote for the Hebrew meaning.


    You are reading a mistranslation, When I first saw this on TV it mentions the drowning as the jews attacking the egyptians in the marsh and killing them (tey don't mean a literal drowning you need to educate yourself) That's why you should read from other sources instead of being a close-minded person. To believe in Noah's ark ,a young earth, that is sad
    Let me finish by saying there are no demons, only the ones are in people's minds so rachie doesn't have a thing to worry about. Back on topic

    workerbee
  • May 16, 2008, 08:10 AM
    sassyT
    [QUOTE]
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    A lot of the Bible are just stories not history you people are so closed minded it's scary. Here is one example of a mistranslation. The crossing of the Red sea never happened the bible actually says they crossed the sea of reeds. When that part was translated it was assumed they meant the red sea. The marsh area the jews crossed ( by the way there is NO evidence that this story is even remotely true)
    That area is 8 to 10 inches of water and at low tide is dry. When you say a LIE long enough it becomes the truth.

    Workerbee if your "reed sea theory" is correct then that means God did an even greater mirracle by drowning thousands of egyptian soldiers and their charriots in 8-10inches of water..lol :D

    Exodus 14vs 26-28
    Then the LORD said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand over the sea, that the waters may come back upon the Egyptians, on their chariots, and on their horsemen.” 27 And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and when the morning appeared, the sea returned to its full depth, while the Egyptians were fleeing into it. So the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea. 28 Then the waters returned and covered the chariots, the horsemen, and all the army of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them. Not so much as one of them remained.
  • May 16, 2008, 08:21 AM
    SkyGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    Skygem you are correct that this thread took a 180 degree turn.

    Yes, it has. This new subject matter has nothing to do with demons other than the ones who control infidels to write the kind of garbage that is designed to obfuscate the way the Bible is actually written.


    (tey don't mean a literal drowning you need to educate yourself) That's why you should read from other sources instead of being a close-minded person.

    That is a typical infidel's way of feeling, I'm sure. But the fact is that the Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God and though you and your flock do not believe that it is does not change the meaning and information contained therein. Again, man's interpretation, mostly from un-Believers would have Christians believe that they have found the miraculous panacea to what they believe is "mistranslations". There are none. Christians stand by the Holy Bible 100% and therefore no amount of arguing is going to change GOD'S WORD. That's the way it is, like it or not.

    To believe in Noah's ark ,a young earth, that is sad

    Actually what is truly sad is to be God-less and believe that man is better than God and has all the answers as you believe.

    Let me finish by saying there are no demons, only the ones are in people's minds so rachie doesn't have a thing to worry about. Back on topic
    workerbee

    Demons most certainly exist except to those who may be in legion with them. But afterall, "can satan cast out satan?" (MARK 3:23 KJV) Infidels have a one-track mind and try to espouse their gross inaccuracies in this forum and so many other places to try to sway Christian minds. It won't work, of course, no matter how hard you try to present your "case" that is full of holes. If you were with God and Believed in Him, He would show you the TRUTH to this matter by way of the Holy Spirit. Enough said.
  • May 16, 2008, 08:26 AM
    sassyT
    [QUOTE]
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    A lot of the Bible are just stories not history you people are so closed minded it's scary.

    You are so ignorant on the subject its scary. The Bible is a reliable historic document. Most of the historical events are confirmed by other non biblical writings. For example, the Ancient Egyptians wrote about the calamities that God sent to Pharaoh at his refusal to releace the Isrealits. It was even documented by the Egyptians that the rivers turned to blood. That is just one example of the Bible's Historicity. So before you emabarrase yourself I would do a little more search on the subject. :rolleyes:
  • May 17, 2008, 06:55 AM
    workerbee
    First off the drowning is a metaphor, possibly, sassy, it is not my reed theory it is written in the HEBREW BIBLE as reed never Red but you don't care about that. I know why you are calling me ignorant, it's because you know in the back of your mind I have good points and it frightens you. Now let's not disrepect this forum or this thread let's get back on topic. They are no demons or angels think about it why would an angel need wings it is not aerodynamically sound. It is symbolism only. Please stay on topic PM me if you want to talk of other things.

    workerbee
  • May 17, 2008, 01:06 PM
    tawnynkids
    Can I just say for those who do believe in the Bible, the reason the study proving prayer doesn't work "proved it" is that it clearly says in the Bible "Do not test the Lord"? Even Jesus would not command something to watch God perform! He knew better than that.
  • May 18, 2008, 07:08 AM
    workerbee
    It is just the way you look at it. Trying to help someone is not testing god, the study was done to answer the question once and for all. Earlier studies were flawed. That was why the study was made. The other reason was if prayer is true it would help people and doctors would incorporate it in treating patients. Again just christian excuses for God not doing a thing. I don't pretend to have all of the answers but come on. Read my thread on taking the bible literally.


    P.s the reed thing and my other suggestions are from bibical scholars
    workerbee
  • May 19, 2008, 07:59 AM
    sassyT
    [QUOTE]
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    First off the drowning is a metaphor, possibly, sassy, it is not my reed theory it is written in the HEBREW BIBLE as reed never Red but you don't care about that.

    Workerbee, your "reed sea" conspiracy theory falls apart right there Because the Hebrew does not say the reed sea. This is what the encyclopidia says about your theory.

    Wikipedia Says

    "It has been argued that the Hebrew name that has been translated as "The Red Sea" (Yam Suph) may not refer to the Red Sea, but rather to a "Sea of Reeds" (Yam Suphim), despite the fact that later books of the Bible refer to the Red Sea port of Aqaba as being located on Yam Suph.

    The theory that Yam Suph was a small, marshy body of swampwater to the north of the Red Sea allows for a non-supernatural interpretation of the crossing. It does not, however, explain the subsequent drowning of several thousand soldiers in the same body of water."


    Quote:

    I know why you are calling me ignorant, it's because you know in the back of your mind I have good points and it frightens you
    I am not saying you are ignorant in general. I am just saying you seem very ignorant in this particular subject matter. Clearly you need to do a little more reading and research before you make statements that make you look ignorant and uninformed.




    Quote:

    Now let's not disrepect this forum or this thread let's get back on topic. They are no demons or angels think about it why would an angel need wings it is not aerodynamically sound. It is symbolism only. Please stay on topic PM me if you want to talk of other things.
    I was just responding to your reed theory, so you need to take your own advice and stop bringing up things that have nothing to do with the subject of the discussion.
  • May 19, 2008, 08:04 AM
    sassyT
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    It is just the way you look at it. trying to help someone is not testing god, the study was done to answer the question once and for all. earlier studies were flawed. that was why the study was made. the other reason was if prayer is true it would help people and doctors would incorporate it in treating patients. Again just christian excuses for God not doing a thing. I don't pretend to have all of the answers but come on. read my thread on taking the bible literally.


    P.s the reed thing and my other suggestions are from bibical scholars
    workerbee


    Here is an independent study done on prayer which concluded that God does answer prayer. I can be a witness to that because God has answered all my prayers.

    Scientific Evidence for Answered Prayer
  • May 19, 2008, 09:50 AM
    workerbee
    I am going to read that study. You seem to want to get around what I am saying though, prayer may help in some cases (placebo effect) I have not read this study yet so I don't know what it says, but as far as your prayers being answered well.. . Lots of people say that, that is why everyone fool themselves. Ask to regrow someone's limbs, with this war we have no shortage of amputees. I am willing to bet you won't because you know I am right
    Think about it if someone prayed for an amputee and it worked then the news would beamed around the world in seconds. Let's not kid ourselves. Prayer is BS it never worked for anyone I prayed to when I was a Christian, put my bet to the test sassy, we will see who is right.

    workerbee
  • May 19, 2008, 10:26 AM
    SkyGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sassyT
    Here is an independent study done on prayer which concluded that God does answer prayer. I can be a witness to that because God has answered all my prayers.

    Scientific Evidence for Answered Prayer

    I will also witness for God through His Only Divine Son Jesus Christ of the many miracles He has performed in my life and continues to. I have witnessed many times before on the power of prayer to God and it is a true blessing to be able to do that for Jesus. So extraordinary were the things He granted me with Love that there can absolutely be no one but GOD who could have accomplished them so rapidly in my time of need.

    Thank you for presenting the link to the scientific studies done on prayer and how prayer indeed DOES effect a person's overall health and well-being. I just wanted to point out to you, though you may undoubtedly already know, that without God's Spirit, a person will see even these scientific studies of a spiritual nature and may not believe them. Here is what the Holy Bible has to say about these people.

    "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth; but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." -- 1 CORINTHIANS 2:12-14 (KJV)

    Therefore, infidels cannot know of the power of prayer because it is discerned spiritually and in their non-belief they have recoiled from the TRUTH as God has presented and may continue to blindly argue going around in circles and grasping for ways to disprove that which God has done but it cannot be disproved because it is from God, their Creator and Ours. Those studies were well presented and only those with an already closed mind would tend to discount them. All others who know how the power of prayer to God works in their life could readily attest to its effectiveness.

    I also very much enjoyed reading the information in one of the other links given Scientific Studies that Show a Positive Effect of Religion on Health
  • May 20, 2008, 07:51 AM
    workerbee
    I am looking into that study but I already know the answer prayer does not work. AT ALL
    Skygem, you just think it works, it's you living in a make believe world If you look you will see my study at the bottom that page it shows no difference of the people who were prayed to and a third group who KNEW they were beiong prayed for did WORSE, I wonder why?Of course being close-minded you will ignore that and ignore what sassy has ignored growing new limbs on a amputee. That is impossible I will bet on that. Don't take that bet Skygem or you will lose eveything. You'll wind up in the poor house saying I still believe the lord. If God can't cure an amputee that he is as impotent as a 95 year old man
    As far as positive effects on health believe or not I agree with you that believing in anything can make a person's outlook much better but it does not prove prayer. Stop answering this thread and start praying for an amputee see how far that gets you.
    Prove me wrong

    Woerbee
  • May 20, 2008, 03:54 PM
    SkyGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    Stop answering this thread and start praying for an amputee see how far that gets you.
    prove me wrong

    woerbee

    All healing comes from God in His time and His own way and no one must test the Lord. Satan tried to tempt Jesus in the high mountain also, just like you, but he could not and Jesus won that battle for us at the cross. As it concerns your post, I have a much better solution to this. I will ask everyone to start praying for you as you are obviously a lost soul and I don't believe you want to stay that way since God made you too, therefore you keep reaching out to me and others through your posts in this Christian forum. But all Hope is not lost through Jesus Christ! Somehow the adversary's grip has gotten ahold of you tightly and causes you to spew forth the things you do to try to discredit the Lord Our God but know that no matter how hard you try, it will not ever work. If you are trying to recruit more heathens here, do know that this is a Christian forum and while there are many astute people in the world today, they can readily recognize your kind of propaganda that can only lead to the ruination of souls.
  • May 21, 2008, 06:31 AM
    workerbee
    You may be correct that the adversary(Satan or common sense ) has gotten a tight grip on me, but if you are honest and I from your posts I think you are then aleast admit that I have a point, by the way I am not tempting Christ it would be illogical. If you helped an amputee you would also shut me up that's why you say satan has me because you could never be wrong .When was a kid I had to go to catechism there I was taught about jesus and prayer, I thought prayer was great, I was kid what did I know. One day I decided to prayer for people without them knowing it. They never got better. Ever I am talking about people with severe problems Never any better, that did not change me but planted a seed which grew into what I am today, as I stated before I was a Christian for many years and I did not change overnight it was long process and when I first realized there is no god I was depressed as hell but I got over it, and what I have said is not propaganda,
    You want me to see the light then prove me wrong but you can't can you because you
    Are living in a make believe world and you might even know it

    workerbee
  • May 21, 2008, 05:51 PM
    SkyGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    You may be correct that the adversary(Satan or common sense ) has gotten a tight grip on me, but if you are honest and i from your posts i think you are then aleast admit that i have a point,

    The right path to healing begins when a person faced with a difficult situation in their life can admit openly and honestly that there are powers beyond their control that have "lobbied" them day and night to believe in ways that are so displeasing to God. And yes, by admitting this, you do have a point and it is a valid one! But you can find your way out of this tempest, this storm, because Jesus will not give up on you. Don't you give up on Him either! He Loves You, my friend, and that is why He has sent me, a stranger to you, to continue to speak to you about ways in which you can break away from the tight grip satan has on you, that you have now admitted is stifling your sense of reasoning or common sense such as to deny the great gift that God has given unto you and me, the ability to witness for Him instead of cast Him down.


    by the way i am not tempting Christ it would be illogical.

    And you know, you don't have to continue to say the kind of things you do such as ask about limbs growing through prayer because surely you are intelligent enough to understand that that is the equivalent of a person asking for a million dollars to manifest for them after prayers. Clearly, there are some things that the Good Lord grants and others He does not grant. He, and only He knows the answer as to why. Most times, it is because it would not befit the person who prays for them or they would miss an important lesson in life. Also, we can never test Him just to see if His Word is true. God does not take kindly to that since who, as mortals, are we to ask God, Our Creator, to prove His mercy upon others. That is dangerous territory and if someone has put you up to this or you read somewhere to ask that question, then you must not listen as The Lord Our God Must Not Be Tempted. Whether you consider what you have asked for to be funny or serious, you still asked for it. It has been duly recorded in the Book of Life and is one more thing to answer for at your appointed time. I, for one, would like to see your slate clean! I would like nothing more than to see you ascend to your judgment and for Jesus to Welcome You Home With Open Arms! And to think that the way for that is so near, so easy, and so non-costly! Just by Accepting Jesus into your life and leaving all of the former rhetoric by the wayside that is only excess garbage you are carrying through life right now like an albatross around your neck. The questions, the innuendos, the man said this and man said that, etc. are things that are not positive and productive in your life. You must ask yourself, did man create God and therefore knows unequivocally more about how God works or is it the other way around? I know you must be intelligent enough to know that a rock or a tree or the ocean did not create you. You know better! There is a way out -- and it is not too late at this point. Just know that if you chose to leave your way of thinking today, Jesus would Accept you and FORGIVE you for your past if you but ask Him with a contrite heart and willingness to change. For is it better to have God with you or against you? That is the ultimate question. Remember what has happened to those who chose to have God against them i.e., Lucifer. He is paying eternally for that free will choice and is under un-cancellable damnation. But he had a clear choice, just like you, remember that.

    If you helped an amputee you would also shut me up that's why you say satan has me because you could never be wrong .

    You must not continue to tell me to "eat the apple from the forbidden tree". You know that is wrong and I won't take the bait. But it is not hurting me, it is ultimately hurting you. Right now, there are others who would like for me to join them in fellowship, but I have chosen to remain here and forego having a good time outdoors so that I can sit here and speak to you about Jesus because He Loves You and your spirit in the Afterlife is worth saving now. Don't continue to offend Him. Every day you wake up and go about your day and have something to eat and a roof over your head, it is not I who give that to you but Jesus! When you are not sick and able to get up and not laboring in a big sweat, thank GOD for that! Your other "friends" who indoctrinate you the wrong way don't care if you're dying, remember that. Will they sit by you and see that you heal, if it is God's will for you to (and you have to agree, many times it is!), and tell you wonderful things about the Power of Christ? No. Never. For the spirit of anti-Christ abounds. They_Do_Not_Care! Sad but true. So, it's time to fight this penchant to ask about the amputee. Are you an amputee by the way? Are you embittered because you have prayed and God has not healed your condition? Well, even if you aren't an amputee, you have something very important that has been cut off from your life -- JESUS! And even an amputee would rather exist in that physical state and have Jesus in their life because if they were Christian, they would know that that condition is only for a short time while they are in physical life. But life does not last forever. They would also have something wonderful to look forward to -- ETERNAL LIFE in spirit, a state of being where they will be Completely FREE of any physical defects they had in this Earth life and will be PERFECT in God's eyes! That is why they would gladly remain in their condition if it was not God's will to heal them and make them whole. God knows the WHY to things. We do not. It is not for us to question as it makes us look like fools before God when we do.

    When was a kid i had to go to catechism there i was taught about jesus and prayer, I thought prayer was great, I was kid what did I know.

    Fortunately, you knew far better then than you apparently do now.

    one day i decided to prayer for people without them knowing it. They never got better. ever I am talking about people with severe problems Never any better, that did not change me but planted a seed which grew into what i am today, as i stated before I was a Christian for many years and i did not change overnight it was long process and when i first realized there is no god i was depressed as hell but I got over it, and what i have said is not propaganda,

    Do you want for me to tell you what may have very well happened there? I will. God is Moving right now in me and wants for you to know that you prayed for many who wished to retain their illness on some level of their being. And since God gave them Free Will choice, by praying for them to be healed, you were interfering with their free will. It was very noble of you to pray for them, make no mistake about that. For I am sure that on some level it did help them as God listens to prayers. But if you did not ask them specifically if they wanted for you to pray for them, then that can be why your prayers for them were never answered and why they did not become better. But even if they had said "Yes!" to pray for them, again, it is like asking a neighbor if they want for you to pray for them to win a million dollars at the lottery. Who would say no! It is simply not meant for most people to escape personal responsibility in this way and for God to simply grant and grant and grant each and every request or their faith would be worthless expecting always to receive and knowing that it would happen regardless. So, even if those people had said yes on the surface, on a deeper inner soul level, their actual answer may have been NO as they needed to retain the experience for their further spiritual growth. Many will readily say "yes" when offered something that they believe would be of benefit to them. Of that there can be no question. But is it actually RIGHT for them IS the question! That is why God did not answer your prayers and here you have been blaming Him all these years and embittering yourself until you too could get sick with all the acrimony you have stored inside of you. It's time to heal, to release this damaged way of thinking! It is time to release this, In the Name of Jesus!

    You want me to see the light then prove me wrong but you can't can you because you
    are living in a make believe world and you might even know it

    No dearheart, that is where you are very wrong. I DO want you to see the Light because God wants for you to see it also! But there is no proving anyone wrong when they are in the Light of Christ! Everyone is right where they are supposed to be! That Light is what will liberate you from the strength of the enemy of your soul! That Light is what will Shine upon your darkest days when you find yourself old and all alone and without anyone to reach out to. That Light is what will serve as a beacon of Truth unto your life. That Light will be your best friend, your Lighthouse that will show you the way Home. That is what I want for you. You know why, because you DESERVE far better, more than you have right now. God gave you your life and even if you have freely chosen to misunderstand Him, He still Loves you in your present state of confusion and denial! He has not forgotten about you and that is why His presence is so Strong here today as I write this to you. Think how long it has taken to answer your few simple sentences. But God wants you to hear all of this so that you will at least consider what is being said, the message that is being brought to you today to show you that He may not have answered your other prayers but He would never forget you! He embraces you and wants to Welcome you back Home as one of His children. I want to see that happen too. Know that where TRUTH is, the devil and all of his lies cannot reside!

    workerbee

    The Truth shall make you FREE, for you cannot have both Light and Darkness at the same time in the very same place. Go in Peace and ponder on what I have said here but I cannot take much credit for these words that come from God especially for you!

  • May 22, 2008, 07:16 AM
    workerbee
    Skygem, I really believe I am correct, the evidence points that I am correct. Being an athesit is the truth and it has set me free.

    workerbee
  • May 22, 2008, 08:52 AM
    sassyT
    [QUOTE]
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    think about it if someone prayed for an amputee and it worked then the news would beamed around the world in seconds. Let's not kid ourselves. Prayer is BS it never worked for anyone I prayed to when I was a Christian, put my bet to the test sassy, we will see who is right.

    Workabee, one thing you need to know is that God is not Magician. You can't just make hocus pocus "prayers" and expect God to perform magic tricks. It does not work that way. Jesus said "they shall lay hands on the sick and sick they shall recover". Recovery is not instant, however God also heals people instantly. There hundred of thousands of people who walk out of wheel chairs every year at healing crusades. There are many stories of people being raised from the dead in many coutries through prayer but you will not see it on the News because people do not believe even the obvious. They try and find natural explanations for such phenonmina.

    Like you said yourself, you already "know" prayer does not work, but speak for yourself because God has done amazing miracles in my life and my family. For one thing my brother was diagnosed with full blown AIDS. His health had degraded to the point where he wieghed 55 pounds(this is a 32 year old man). He was wearing diapers because his whole digestive system had given out. Doctors had given him days to live. In his weak state he says he pleaded with God to heal him and give him a second chance at life. Meawhile my mother held intersesory all night prayers. After 3-4 weeks of intense prayer the doctors started to see some improvement in his health. He became conscious afer being unconscious for weeks. Slowly over a period of about 2months in hospital my brother was getting better and better each day. Doctors were in shock because they could not explain the recovery. It just doesn't happen. His T-cells had multiplied in a few months. After about 8 months my brother was fully recovered and HIV negative. The doctors were trying find natural explanation for it but we know it was Our God. From that time I have never doubted God. I just feel sorry for those who don't know him. Today my brother goes Africa on mission trips to share his testimony. So when some like you says prayer does not work, I just shake my head because my experience has been quite the contrary. :)




    I
  • May 22, 2008, 03:32 PM
    SkyGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    Skygem, i really believe i am correct, the evidence points that I am correct. Being an athesit is the truth and it has set me free.

    workerbee

    Then there is nothing further I can do for you if this is your final word on this since with your free will you have chosen your ultimate destiny. But know that since you have denied Jesus, He has also denied you before His Father in Heaven and you know that at your appointed time, as per Holy Scripture, you will not be able to enter into eternal bliss in Heaven. I am truly sorry you have chosen this for yourself and for eternity in the Afterlife but it is your choice.
  • May 22, 2008, 03:44 PM
    SkyGem
    [quote=sassyT]
    Quote:


    Workabee, one thing you need to know is that God is not Magician. You can't just make hocus pocus "prayers" and expect God to perform magic tricks. It does not work that way. Jesus said "they shall lay hands on the sick and sick they shall recover". Recovery is not instant, however God also heals people instantly. There hundred of thousands of people who walk out of wheel chairs every year at healing crusades. There are many stories of people being raised from the dead in many coutries through prayer but you will not see it on the News because people do not believe even the obvious. They try and find natural explanations for such phenonmina.

    Like you said yourself, you already "know" prayer does not work, but speak for yourself because God has done amazing miracles in my life and my family. For one thing my brother was diagnosed with full blown AIDS. His health had degraded to the point where he wieghed 55 pounds(this is a 32 year old man). He was wearing diapers because his whole digestive system had given out. Doctors had given him days to live. In his weak state he says he pleaded with God to heal him and give him a second chance at life. Meawhile my mother held intersesory all night prayers. After 3-4 weeks of intense prayer the doctors started to see some improvement in his health. He became conscious afer being unconscious for weeks. Slowly over a period of about 2months in hospital my brother was getting better and better each day. Doctors were in shock because they could not explain the recovery. It just doesn't happen. His T-cells had multiplied in a few months. After about 8 months my brother was fully recovered and HIV negative. The doctors were trying find natural explanation for it but we know it was Our God. From that time I have never doubted God. I just feel sorry for those who don't know him. Today my brother goes Africa on mission trips to share his testimony. So when some like you says prayer does not work, I just shake my head because my experience has been quite the contrary. :)

    I
    SassyT, that is WONDERFUL news about your brother's healing! PRAISE THE LORD!!! I know that for those who Believe, Jesus is at the center of their need and can bring about MIRACULOUS results as with your brother.

    The following site gives examples of what God has done in people's lives to bring them healing! Do scroll down on the right hand side a little and you will find a most interesting healing from God! There are so many people who have been healed through PRAYER as their Belief in God is Strong and Mighty! May God Bless Them Always!

    Newday Ministries Pastor Katherine Ruonala Testimonies
  • May 23, 2008, 07:41 AM
    workerbee
    Sassy, I am glad about your brother but what does that prove? The reason I talk about amputees so much is that it can not happen. I know of people with AIDS and they have only slight problems so we don't know enough about that disease yet and how it behaves in the body. Look at magic johnson, he has nothing bothering him, he talked about it when he was on a radio a few years ago but with amputees that's a done deal or kids who have downs syndrome, that's all I am saying, afew years back there was a woman who had Hep C which is an incurable virus like in many cases the illness can go into remmison, some might say GOD it must GOD even though she felt better for time she still HAS the virus in her body Dormant for the time being. You have to be very careful about what you call a miracle. With your brother , I don't know but if you are all praying and he believes that it would work , well the mind is powerful, I don't have to tell you that it is plausible that he would go into remmison, but with some some conditions like losing a limb CANNOT br reversed period. God can't do a thing. Hopefullyyou are getting my point

    Also sassy don't be unfair to me. I said I don't believe because I have never seen it when I tried and again about certain conditions that Can't reversed no matter whose god you believe in. that tells me something
    Also I noticed you said you did not doubt God after that, which means you had to see something before you believed, we have more in common than I would have thought
    The vatican looks into miracles and from what I remember there was only like 61 or so.
    After BILIONS of prayers over many many years that's it, come on. (that last part was from memory I will look it up when I have time)
    Skygem, thanks for your concern but you need not be. Let me tell you People like you are the religion of their community, that means no matter what you say if you were born in India you would be walking around with a red dot on your forehead and worshiping those gods, period.. . I guess you are saying I ill be burning in hell. Here is what I think If I am wrong and God does exist, a God who gave me a brain, reason, common sense, I don't think he would condemn me for using those tools. What kind of S O B God do you believe in? All I am doing using common sense.



    workerbee
  • May 23, 2008, 09:39 AM
    SkyGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    Skygem, thanks for your concern but you need not be. Let me tell you People like you are the religion of their community, that means no matter what you say if you were born in India you would be walking around with a red dot on your forehead and worshiping those gods, period. . . . I guess you are saying I ill be burning in hell. Here is what I think If i am wrong and God does exist, a God who gave me a brain, reason, common sense, I don't think he would condemn me for using those tools. What kind of S O B God do you believe in? All i am doing using common sense.
    workerbee

    The brain and the other things you mentioned will not and cannot bring Salvation for you. There is only ONE way, through acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Savior. But by all means, put it to the test and see what your "common sense" gets you when you stand before God at your judgment and try to use that line on Him as a means to your Salvation (assuming you would even want it later on when the time comes). But that is your problem from now on as you have rejected God and it is now on record.
  • May 23, 2008, 03:27 PM
    Fr_Chuck
    I am sorry, we know that Jesus even defeated death, so there is nothing beyond what he can do. But it is a fact that death and earthy problems are a part of our life on earth, and Christianity also teaches us how to live and learn to accept those things and have a Christian attitude.

    I have seen a boy healed of rocky spoted mountain fever before, spots disappear as we prayed, I have seen many wonders that the Lord has did, and I have seen all of the evils that the world can bring.
  • May 24, 2008, 07:55 AM
    workerbee
    Why do you think there is so much medical research going on? It's because prayers don't work, doesn't take a genius. Lots of people pray for a healing then die. Is God fickle? Mean? Bias, racist? Or just plain lazy. The answer is easy

    Skygem , you don't make any sense. I told you I was a Christian, during that time I never felt anything. I will trust my common sense over supersition anyday. Let me give a glimpse into the near future they are within 2 or 3 years of killing all cancers, developing nanites (microscopic robots) that will be injected into the blood and do various tasks keeping us healthy, then people will rely less and less on prayer for healing( which is good because it never works)at that point your God becomes less important in the lives of those people, we will only need God for immortality, but wait.. . I read a book that says in 2039 just 31 years from now we will have technology to download our analog brain onto a digital computer chip. I won't go into detail here, I am talking about your memories, sense of humor, etc . Your soul if you will. We will be immortal, never to die On that day your God will die
    He will be as worthless as an old paint can.people are only hoping to get into heaven other than that they would ignore God It reminds me of a story about the greek Gods. Zeus is speaking to Hera, his wife.

    Zeus: the humans are troublesome
    Hera: why do we put up with them?
    Zeus: we need them
    Hera: Why?
    Zeus: Because, when they stop believing in us , we die

    So if I will live long enough I will be immortal.

    Fr_chuck, you have to be careful what call a miracle, there are claims made all the time. Whenever investigated well lets just say disappointment is the result. That's why I mention certain conditions. Let your God grow limbs on the soldiers coming back from war, he won't do it I wonder why. I guess the poor guy is not as strong as he used to be. You might consider going over and worshipping another God

    workerbee
  • May 24, 2008, 08:29 AM
    SkyGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee

    Skygem , you don't make any sense. i told you i was a Christian, during that time i never felt anything. I will trust my common sense over supersition anyday.

    And again, when you take that walk after you pass on, you will be alone in that. No one of your friends will be there to speak up for you before your judgment. You may not give it much importance now, but be assured that when the time comes you will wish thousands of times over that you had listened to what Scriptures say about Salvation. By then, it will be too late. But again, put it to the test! Take that risk if you are willing.

    Fr_chuck, you have to be careful what call a miracle, there are claims made all the time. Whenever investigated well lets just say disappointment is the result. that's why i mention certain conditions. let your God grow limbs on the soliders coming back from war, he won't do it I wonder why. I guess the poor guy is not as strong as he used to be. You might consider going over and worshipping another God

    workerbee

    Actually, God HAS grown limbs back for your information! Look at this website and if you have any questions whatsoever, you are free to contact the pastors for further details and information on the MIRACLES that God has done through prayer! Go to the right side and scroll downwards until you get to "Leg Grows". There are many other examples of God's healing power being made manifest through PRAYER! So, there you are, you can no longer say that God cannot grow a limb back as He can do anything that is His Will.

    Newday Ministries Pastor Katherine Ruonala Testimonies
  • May 24, 2008, 09:24 AM
    SkyGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    Why do you think there is so much medical research going on? It's because prayers don't work, doesn't take a genius. Lots of people pray for a healing then die. Is God fickle? mean? bias, racist? or just plain lazy. the answer is easy

    Skygem , you don't make any sense. i told you i was a Christian, during that time i never felt anything.
    workerbee

    Oh yeah? You say Prayers don't work? This is something you really need to read! Since you mention "medical research" this is a new item of interest on the Power of God in situations that are extreme and near hopeless. The family involved here PRAYED for a healing of their mother who was actually at death's door, and GUESS WHAT, She Did Not Die! This article should be most convincing since it involves medical personnel who are less likely to believe in MIRACLES.

    ABC News: Nearly Dead, Woman Comes Back to Life
  • May 25, 2008, 07:29 AM
    workerbee
    First off skygem, I think you are trying way too hard to convince me I do not pretend to have all of the answers and I have become a bit cynical. Your examples were nothing special . In the second story the woman came back to life but does that happen often, it is a fluke, we don't know enough about the body. That's why when something happens it must be a miracle when it might not be. When my Father was in ICU there was another person who was sick we got to be friends with that family, They were like you Skygem, believing in the Bible as the word of god at least the sister was. They prayed and prayed and she died. The saying we learned was when you are old in the ICU your dead. Which seemed to happen a lot. Pray dosen't seem to help much. Once in while something strange happens it could be God who knows but he is not very consitent, it happens every blue moon so maybe it is not him.in the first story a leg supposely got longer When I was younger my little cousin had retinal blastoma, his parents brought him everywhere, even Boston, a great childerens' hospital. They finally went to a faith healer out of desperation and I went along. Father Diorio, something like that was the name of the faith healer. it was so packed I went up the balcony alone. A man was right in front of me had one leg shorter. The father yelled out some general symptoms and this man's wife said it must be for him so he went to the front of the balcony , the father made
    Him say a few things, then said you are healed. The man aknowledged he was healed. Then hobbled back to his wife, leaned over to her, I leaned to hear, and he said" this is Bull...t." " his wife said Shhh shhh don't you embarass me." mean while the huge crowd thought another miracle had occurred which had not
    I am speaking about the complete regeneration
    Of a limb, fingers nerve endings skin, etc the whole shabang. It does not happen

    PS on the history channel they had new info on the exodus you might like to see
    With satellite photos they can follow the path of those Jews and discover what happened to them if the story is true. They also found the area the jews crossed, they said sea of reeds, they even know the name of the lake they crossed. I did not see all of it but the conclusion
    Is that this story is REAL, I though you might like it. The name of the show is The Exodus decoded on the history channel. Some of the reasoning is very convincing even to the drowning of the egyptians although not the way you think Go on the history.com you might be able to find when they run it again .I want to see the whole show this time

    workerbee
  • May 29, 2008, 10:22 AM
    sassyT
    [QUOTE]
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by workerbee
    sassy, I am glad about your brother but what does that prove? The reason I talk about amputees so much is that it can not happen. I know of people with AIDS and they have only slight problems so we don't know enough about that disease yet and how it behaves in the body. Look at magic johnson, he has nothing bothering him, he talked about it when he was on a radio a few years ago but with amputees that's a done deal or kids who have downs syndrome, that's all I am saying, afew years back there was a woman who had Hep C which is an incurable virus like in many cases the illness can go into remmison, some might say GOD it must GOD even though she felt better for time she still HAS the virus in her body Dormant for the time being. You have to be very careful about what you call a miracle. With your brother , I don't know but if you are all praying and he believes that it would work , well the mind is powerful, I don't have to tell you that it is plausible that he would go into remmison, but with some some conditions like losing a limb CANNOT br reversed period. God can't do a thing. Hopefullyyou are getting my point

    A person with full blown AIDS is now healthy and HIV negative. That sound like a miracle to me. Even the non religious doctors said it was a miracle. So you can down play it all you want but that is just your opinion on the matter. The fact still remains that we prayed for healing and he was healed completely. Amen!
    Read this Metacrock's Blog: Why Dosn't God heal Stupidity?

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    also sassy don't be unfair to me. I said I don't believe because I have never seen it when I tried and again about certain conditions that Can't reversed no matter whose god you believe in. that tells me something
    Again God is not a magician.


    Quote:

    Also I noticed you said you did not doubt God after that, which means you had to see something before you believed, we have more in common than I would have thought
    Of course, I don't have blind faith. I believe in God because of what I have seen, heard and felt. I am the kind of person who believes only if there is evidence and there is an insurmountable amount of evidence for God.

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    The vatican looks into miracles and from what I remember there was only like 61 or so.
    After BILIONS of prayers over many many years that's it, come on. (that last part was from memory I will look it up when I have time)
    Don't bother... I coundnt care less what the vatican has to say about mirracles. I am not catholic and I doubt the vatican knows about the hundreds of miracles God has done in my life alone.

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    Skygem, thanks for your concern but you need not be. Let me tell you People like you are the religion of their community, that means no matter what you say if you were born in India you would be walking around with a red dot on your forehead and worshiping those gods, period.. . I guess you are saying I ill be burning in hell.
    Here is what I think If I am wrong and God does exist, a God who gave me a brain, reason, common sense, I don't think he would condemn me for using those tools. What kind of S O B God do you believe in? All I am doing using common sense.
    Lol actually if God does exist you're screwed :D God gave you a brain and you are not using it. You see everything around you trees, flowers, animals, complex biological systems like the digesive system, reproductive system, immune system etc and you come to the smart conclusion that it just apeared from no where by accident. If you were using your brain and common sense, a reasonable person would conclude that the complexity of design seen in our universe warrants an intelligent designer.
    Its just like if I landed on Jupitor and found a complex functional machine that resembles a car and I come to the conclution that it just a apeared on jupitor from no where and evolved over time. A reasonable sensible person would conclude after seeing the machine that there must be intelligent life on Jupitor. Apparently you don't see things that way so God would condemn you for not using the brain he gave you. ;)
  • May 29, 2008, 05:13 PM
    workerbee
    So you don't have blind faith but I should have blind faith?
    Come on sassy, You are saying that God is not a magician, I agree but he should be able to cure everything but he Can't I wonder why. That should tell an open-minded person something, not you of course Making excuses for your make-believe God? We need more reseacrh to find out why people like your brother was hepled but other prople aren't. To insist that only God cured your brother and it can't be anything else, is incredibly ignorant of any other posibility( shocking) that's how scientist learn , by asking questions not jumping on the God bandwagon. By the way does your brother still have the virus in his body? I am willing to bet he has. You should not show yourself to be so closed minded by dismissing what the Vatican has found they have scientists looking into prayer, not many miracles though, huh.. I think that proves me correct. Whose not using her brain now? When I read that worthless book I came away thinking that your God is a psychopath. I think you need a few weeks in ICU to see the pain and suffering and those people praying to a deaf God.
    Read the letters of Mother Terasa, she had doubts about God for almost 50 years
    In one letter she said something like When I pray I only get silence in return. Of course you know more than her. Let me guess you don't like her either. Try praying to Zeus you might get better results

    How sad for you to be so afraid of God that you have to try to scare people into believing in him LOL If you convert enough people do you get a set of steak knives?



    workerbee
  • May 30, 2008, 07:46 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    sassyT disagrees: My brother was healed from full blown AIDS after we had 3 days of intercesion for him. Now he doesn't even have HIV. So don't tell me that God does not answer prayers.
    I find this very hard to believe. It would be a medical first. I can't believe that you gave someone a reddie for that.

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