Honestly - what is the matter with you?

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I have never once said that Adam was non-binary.

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I never said you did.

In case you have forgotten, and can't understand what it is I'm talking about. You said that you have never said such and such. And you went on to say; that you would have never mentioned whether anybody else from this site has said such and such because you couldn't possibly know what somebody might or might not have said, in the many discussions coming from this forum. Yet you keep saying that! you continue to say that nobody from this site has ever said that. As if you wouldn't be involved in a discussion with such dribble

And what business do you have saying - "I never said" - when you said; "I never said; No one here has stated that or said anything to that effect...not even once, have I ever made such a statement."

And I just posted you saying that. I quoted that very statement in one of your earlier posts in a different thread.

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In what way do you think I see it?

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Exacly! You are looking with your eyes.
.
This might help search.
The two of you were discussing the Gospel being binary or nonbinary.

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Originally Posted by waltero

The two of you were discussing the Gospel being binary or nonbinary.

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Please explain what that means. Living things, not books or teachings, are binary or non-binary. (Do you know what binary/non-binary means?)

And please give us the title of the AMHD question this "discussion" is in.

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And please give us the title of the AMHD question this "discussion" is in

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It would not be in your best interest to find it. It would only prove you wrong.
At this point, I really don't care. Neither you nor JL knows what you're talking about.

Regardless if we find it or not, the two of you will stick to your guns and deny anything was ever mentioned (just like the above statement that JL said he never!).

It's the same thing when I mentioned Paul's body was non-existent. You don't get it. you will pretend you don't know what it is I'm talking about. When in fact Paul didn't know if he was in his body or not ("or not" -The possibility of his body not existing for that moment, seemed utterly blasphemous to you). When you run into a burning fire to rescue your cat, you might not pay any attention to the fire or your body. But when God tells you to run into a burning building, you will always consider what the fire will do to your body...unless you are walking with God. How likely are you going to convince somebody to run into a blazing furnace? How likely are "you" going to verbally convince a nonbeliever that God exists? can't be done... that's why apologetics is a miss. It's good for some things, but it is not where we should put our hope.

Waltero, your avoiding my question sounds like you don't know what binary and non-binary mean. Gender binary, not mathematical binary.

In your discussion with JL, it sounded like you didn't know the Gospel.
You yourself didn't understand the Gospel as being binary.

(really, do we need to go through this again?)

I never know where you're coming from WG. So I try to avoid you whenever possible...sorry.

Waltero, how is the Gospel binary? Or non-binary?

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In case you have forgotten, and can't understand what it is I'm talking about. You said that you have never said such and such. And you went on to say; that you would have never mentioned whether anybody else from this site has said such and such because you couldn't possibly know what somebody might or might not have said, in the many discussions coming from this forum. Yet you keep saying that! you continue to say that nobody from this site has ever said that. As if you wouldn't be involved in a discussion with such dribble

And what business do you have saying - "I never said" - when you said; "I never said; No one here has stated that or said anything to that effect...not even once, have I ever made such a statement."

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It has been explained to you. You choose to ignore the explanation. Your choice.

You said earlier, " Like I said before, and keep on saying...You can't convince (not in the way in which you think) an unbeliever." I'm just wondering what you believe I'm thinking about convincing unbelievers since I don't know what you mean by that.

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This might help search.
The two of you were discussing the Gospel being binary or nonbinary.

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I looked up every place I have mentioned "non-binary". At no place is there a reference to a "Gospel being nonbinary", so I don't know what you are referring to. To call the Gospel "non-binary" makes no sense to me.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/search...rchid=15305045

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To call the Gospel "non-binary" makes no sense to me.

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Well, at the time - you seemed to have a hard time convincing WG that it was a binary Gospel... until I entered the discussion (hard to believe, right).
Do you know that tomorrow you will forget 40% of what you were doing today?

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You choose to ignore the explanation

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An explanation would only work for you. The fact of the matter is; that you said - X - and you claimed you had never (not even once) said - "X."Nothing you say can divert the fact that you have been proven a liar. I use the word "liar" because you are in denial. Because you honestly believe an explanation can put you in the right...when you have been proven wrong. You've been engaging in some pretty silly discussions...this is one of them...Convincing yourself that you are not in error is tragic. Continuing to try and convince others is detrimental.

What good is that link?

Maybe try searching "Binary Gospel"?

Waltero, we were discussing binary people, not Gospel.

Please quote what JL said, or at least tell us where it is.

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Well, at the time - you seemed to have a hard time convincing WG that it was a binary Gospel... until I entered the discussion (hard to believe, right).
Do you know that tomorrow you will forget 40% of what you were doing today?

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I gave you a search link above to show that I have not mentioned a "binary Gospel". I can do no more for you. Now you and WG talked about it as the search below will show you if you have the time to look at it. You will note that I was not involved in your conversation. Is this part of the 40% you are mistaken about???

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/search...rchid=15306921

I have already search for it and came up with the link above. But you are secure in your fantasy world, so I can't help you.

When you find that place where WG or I spoke of "Adom" being binary, or of God marrying Mary, be sure to let us know. I will patiently wait.

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Paul's body did not exist??? Just nonsensical.

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So you're going to straighten Paul out?

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If believing the Bible is being deceived, then I plead guilty.

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Jl, It's more than a belief, it's much more than believing. It's more than a doctrine, it's more than a creed, it's more than a body, it's a life. A living being that is in you. You don't believe in it, you live it. A Christian doesn't say [to themselves] "I love God," Their heart cries aloud - why don't I love God more than I do?

Look at what? the link is blank. Besides, I could care less what it is you're going on about. The fact of the matter is, there is a lot of silly goings on around here...And you are just as guilty as the lot of us.

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When you find that place where WG or I spoke of

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Here we go again. What happened to "Nobody here has ever said anything to that effect"???

Give it up already.

Good day

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Please quote what JL said, or at least tell us where it is.

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Don't hold your breath, WG.

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So you're going to straighten Paul out?

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Paul never said his body did not exist. You're simply making that up. What he DID say was that he was taken up into the presence of God (the third heaven), but he did not know if it was just his spirit or if he was still in his body, a body which you absurdly claim does not even exist. The text reads, "I know a man in Christ who was caught up to the third heaven fourteen years ago. Whether he was in the body or out of the body, I don’t know; God knows."

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Jl, It's more than a belief, it's much more than believing. It's more than a doctrine, it's more than a creed, it's more than a body, it's a life. A living being that is in you. You don't believe in it, you live it. A Christian doesn't say [to themselves] "I love God," Their heart cries aloud - why don't I love God more than I do?

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What does that have to do with believing the Bible, a Bible which, as usual, you did not bother to refer to? For instance, where does the Bible tell us, "A Christian doesn't say [to themselves] 'I love God.'"

This whole thread is in the same place the thread about hell was in. When told by some here that hell was not a real place, I quoted over thirty passages of scripture, involving more than a hundred verses, which affirmed it does exist, only to be told I was "cherry-picking". In your case, Walter, you simply ignore what you don't like. Your beliefs do not seem to me to be based on Bible teaching at all.

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Here we go again. What happened to "Nobody here has ever said anything to that effect"???

Give it up already.

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Just trying to give you a chance as did WG. I knew in advance that you would not take it.'

This link works fine for me. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/search...rchid=15306921

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"Nobody here has ever said anything to that effect"???

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This is only one example. In an earlier post, you stated that you never said this (above). I did a search and here it is (see above)

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The text reads, "I know a man in Christ

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Who's body was he in?

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your link

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I get nothing but a blank page. Maybe you could tell me what thread it is under?

As far as the (Athos) Mary being married to God thing. Maybe this will help. - So that Mary could bear Jesus. Jesus could not have been born from a sinful mother.

WG, I don't know verbatim what was said. I don't know what thread it was under.

@JL. When I mentioned (earlier thread) why I believe in the Bible, and you brought up Circular reasoning - in that thread somebody had mentioned that apologetics had brought them back (saved them). Come to a later thread you said - "Nobody here has ever said anything to that effect." That is what started all this. Out of respect to the blogger, I didn't want to repost his (diminishing a heartfelt experience) emotional response. I'm sure if you do a search you will easily find it. Or if I do a tedious search, I'm sure I can find it. I already posted a thread from you that you said you never (not even once) said.

If it will shut you up, I will gladly Search and destroy your entire argument. The fact is, WG had taken the position (for the sake of argument or whatever) that Adam [might] had been created Non-binary. Also somewhere along the discussion (entirely different), Athos had dropped in there - God was married (with his spirit) to Mary, in order for a mother (to be a legit mother, I assume) to give birth to a sinless child.

Everything thought up and discussed (here) is carnal in nature. Apologetics is largely to convince the carnal mind to believe...believe in what? To convince your mind that the Bible is the actual word of God? So what, even the demons believe that.

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Who's body was he in?

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You mean Paul? Whose body was Paul in? Is that what you are seriously asking?

You set the parameter "the two of you". I was responding to that. My response was imprecise, so I will happily plead guilty to that. I guess I just assumed everyone here would know that neither I nor anyone else has a full knowledge of what dozens if not hundreds of people have posted on this site. At any rate, you have failed to point out a single quote where either of us said what you alleged.

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Or if I do a tedious search, I'm sure I can find it.

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I encourage you to do that. Searches on this site are actually very easy. The search app is very good.

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If it will shut you up, I will gladly Search and destroy your entire argument.

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First of all, I don't even know what "argument" you are referring to. But even at that, if you mean your idea that "the two of us" might have suggested that "Adom" was non-binary, then I would like to see it. We have asked you to do so repeatedly. Please do.

I don't know why my search link is not working unless it has to be logged in as me to work. But the search is simple. Go to "search" at the top, select "advanced search", and then put in the word(s) and user ID you want to search for. Do yourself a favor and tell it to search for "posts". The results are much easier to deal with.

Of course, the alternative would be for us to discuss something meaningful. Perhaps this.

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Paul never said his body did not exist. You're simply making that up. What he DID say was that he was taken up into the presence of God (the third heaven), but he did not know if it was just his spirit or if he was still in his body, a body which you absurdly claim does not even exist. The text reads, "I know a man in Christ who was caught up to the third heaven fourteen years ago. Whether he was in the body or out of the body, I don’t know; God knows."

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Even better, maybe you could tell us what it is that you find so irritating. I've seen angry people on this board before, but I could always tell what they were angry about. With you, and I say this respectfully, it is difficult.

This must be the "circular reasoning" post you are referring to. You were definitely guilty of circular reasoning in that post, but even at that, I don't see what it has to do with the present thread.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showth...10#post3891810

This was the post.

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Circular reasoning, is it not?

"Why do I trust the Bible?" "Because I trust God."

"How do I know about God?" "I discover God in the Bible which I trust."

"But how can I know I should trust the Bible?" "By trusting in the God I read about in the Bible."

And on and on it would go.

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With you, and I say this respectfully, it is difficult.

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Because I know I don't need to be on this site. Because every time I leave, it draws me back in... much like Sin. The discussions here are fruitless. The earlier ones (with Athos) I enjoyed. But with the three or four supposed Christians?

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Neither I nor anyone else has a full knowledge of what dozens if not hundreds of people have posted on this site.

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Then why would you ever respond ("Nobody here has ever said anything to that effect") as if you have full knowledge of whatever comes down the pike?

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Whose body was Paul in? Is that what you are seriously asking?

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Are you in Christ? Whose body are you in?

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Then why would you ever respond ("Nobody here has ever said anything to that effect") as if you have full knowledge of whatever comes down the pike?

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Because you had limited it to, "the two of you", as has been explained to you ENDLESSLY. But as I said, my language was imprecise, so I plead guilty to that. As I said, I would imagine that any thinking person would know that no one has any idea what perhaps hundreds of people have posted over the past ten or twenty years. Still, I should have been more careful.

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Are you in Christ?

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I am in Christ and Christ is in me.

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Whose body are you in?

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I am in my body. Paul was in Paul's body. Jesus was in his body. Peter was in Peter's body. Is this really difficult??? For you to suggest Paul's body did not even exist was just ridiculous. I can only assume you meant to say something else.

1. Now this man acquired a field with his unrighteous wages. He fell headfirst, his body burst open and his intestines spilled out.
2. Acts 5:6
   The young men got up, wrapped his body, carried him out, and buried him.
3. Acts 9:40
   Peter sent them all out of the room. He knelt down, prayed, and turning toward the body said, “Tabitha, get up.” She opened her eyes, saw Peter, and sat up.
4. Romans 4:19
   He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body to be already dead (since he was about a hundred years old) and also the deadness of Sarah’s womb.
5. Romans 6:6
   For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be rendered powerless so that we may no longer be enslaved to sin,

Now yes, I am part of the body of Christ, but clearly that was not Paul's reference in the 2 Corinthians passage, for we Christians are ALWAYS part of that body.

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But with the three or four supposed Christians?

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What makes you question that?

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I am in my body.

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I don't have time to explain the Body of Christ. Chances are your Carnal mind and body wouldn't pick up on it anyway.

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What makes you question that?

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Because I have to question whether any (including me) Christian should be engaged in such a waste of time, as here. There might have been a time when I learned something while coming here. That time has long passed. This Forum will slowly wither away, and I can't help but think of the poor souls that are going down with the ship.

You act as if every thread is a separate topic. All "Christian" topics (in this forum) are of the same thread. So when you say "here," as in - Nobody here has ever said anything to that effect. - it encompasses all threads of the same category, nature, and book (for me anyway).

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Because I have to question whether any (including me) Christian should be engaged in such a waste of time, as here.

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So you question yourself as well?

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You act as if every thread is a separate topic. All "Christian" topics (in this forum) are of the same thread

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That's because every thread IS a separate topic. Good grief.

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I don't have time to explain the Body of Christ. Chances are your Carnal mind and body wouldn't pick up on it anyway.

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It's this kind of arrogant garbage that makes you irritating. You have no idea, but you don't want to admit it.

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That's because every thread IS a separate topic.

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Not when it falls under the Christian category. It's the same message. You're not trying to convince somebody of this or that... you're referring to a life. Not your life.

That is because if you believe - that every story that is based on true life, comes from the same book. You really don't understand, do you? I think it has more to do with the fact that you don't want to understand. And your ability to manipulate the facts to fit your Position.

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Good grief.

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Why always so smug?

Do you think that you might be lacking in spiritual vitality or maturity? You should be shocked by your explicit carnality.

You are only here to Argue your position...that is all.

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Originally Posted by waltero

Not when it falls under the Christian category. It's the same message.

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Under Christianity, there are many threads, each with a different topic. Here are recent ones:
1. A movie, "The Encounter"
2. The Book of Acts
3. The Book of Revelation
4. Eutychus
5. Hell
6. Fundamentalism
7. Heaven
8. Forgiveness
9. Universalism
10. Gabriel

The questioners are looking for information and even opinions on a variety of topics.

There is no "same message".

If you want to believe that Pauls body did not exist and that all threads are of the same topic, then go for it.

Well said, WG

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That is because if you believe - that every story that is based on true life, comes from the same book. You really don't understand, do you?

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I realize you value these statements and consider them to be true, but you are unable to connect it with any teaching in the Bible, and until you can, it's just your opinion. I am not swayed by your opinions.

Sunday I preached on humility. I began with these five passages. I did so because I wanted the people to know that the idea of God blessing the humble did not come from me. It was not merely my opinion.

Luke 18:15. everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Is. 66:2. I will look favorably on this kind of person: one who is humble, submissive[a] in spirit, and trembles at my word.
Matt. 5:5. Blessed are the humble, for they will inherit the earth.
Psalm 149:4. For the Lord takes pleasure in his people; he adorns the humble with salvation.
1 Peter 5:5 All of you clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you at the proper time.

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That is because if you believe - that every story that is based on true life, comes from the same book.
you are unable to connect it with any teaching in the Bible.

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We have the Old Testament and we have the New Testament...they are both one and the same story, one and the same life.

This all started when I was talking down toward apologetics. Okay, can we get past all that?

I will try to use this discussion as an example of how your Christian Values, Christian thinking, Christian speaking, and "life" interact with everything Christian and the life that is in you.

While talking about apologetics, I mentioned how somebody here was brought back by apologetics. Then JL responded - "I have never said that nor has anybody here (here; meaning this particular thread) ever said such a thing."

Okay, at that time I did not understand that you meant "nobody here," as in this particular thread/topic. If you are able to see where it is I'm coming from, this (apologetics) topic has been covered over a long period of time under many (it takes just one) different topics.

So, when I mentioned (in an earlier topic) why I believe the Bible is true, JL Mentioned that he feels the same way (understood). Later in that same conversation, another person mentioned how apologetics brought him back. Then we get a response from JL... believing as if all three of us were agreeing on the same thing. I left it (the topic) at that time because I didn't want to ruin their moment. So here I am again, entered another Topic and Apoligetics comes up. I mentioned something having to do with apologetics...something along the lines of - apologetics and the truth of the Bible. I mentioned somebody here saying apologetics brought them back. While JL believes and has a heartfelt understanding with the previous (in a different thread) poster. Being that you were of the same mind, what does it matter if I mention somebody here (as in this topic) or another thread/topic? There is no here in the topic, here in the thread... there is only here in the forum. And you know as well as I do that we have covered many different topics in posts that have nothing to do with the original poster's subject matter.

So now we are discussing the apostle Paul and a particular verse. There was a particular time in Paul's earthly life when he did not know if he was in his body. If his body mattered don't you think he would know if he was in his body? It is apparent, he didn't know nor did he care. So why did he mention it (I'll let you figure that one out)? For all practical purposes, Paul's flesh didn't (matter) exist!

So when I mention Paul and his body (we are clearly talking about a particular time and place), you take it as me saying Paul's Body didn't exist at all. On one hand, you say I, as in you were talking here (as in this particular thread), and on the other hand, you act as if talking about the course of Paul's entire life. I'm saying the same thing that Paul has been trying to explain to all who believe. Put off the flesh and its desires. Walk in Spirit and in truth.


You once told me I should shorten my posts. How about letting me be me?

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I mentioned how somebody here was brought back by apologetics. Then JL responded - "I have never said that nor has anybody here (here; meaning this particular thread) ever said such a thing."

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Actually, as I recall, my response was to your claim that WG or I had carried on a discussion about God marrying Mary or Adam being binary. "What gets me is when the two of you go off on some cockamamy discussions about God married Mary, Adom was non-binary." I think DW made the apologetics comment you are referring to.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showpo...&postcount=232

Walter, you seem like a sincere guy and I am glad you post here. I don't always understand what you are trying to say, but it's good that you put your ideas out there. I hope you will continue. I've decided to make a serious effort to try and be a little more civil and humble in our discussions.

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So now we are discussing the apostle Paul and a particular verse. There was a particular time in Paul's earthly life when he did not know if he was in his body. If his body mattered don't you think he would know if he was in his body? It is apparent, he didn't know nor did he care. So why did he mention it (I'll let you figure that one out)? For all practical purposes, Paul's flesh didn't (matter) exist!

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That is certainly a more common-sense explanation. Thanks for the clarification.

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So now we are discussing the apostle Paul and a particular verse. There was a particular time in Paul's earthly life when he did not know if he was in his body. If his body mattered don't you think he would know if he was in his body? It is apparent, he didn't know nor did he care. So why did he mention it (I'll let you figure that one out)? For all practical purposes, Paul's flesh didn't (matter) exist!
So when I mention Paul and his body (we are clearly talking about a particular time and place), you take it as me saying Paul's Body didn't exist at all. On one hand, you say I, as in you were talking here (as in this particular thread), and on the other hand, you act as if talking about the course of Paul's entire life. I'm saying the same thing that Paul has been trying to explain to all who believe. Put off the flesh and its desires. Walk in Spirit and in truth.

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Am I still in question here? please explain. There should be no here and then when it comes to Christian life.

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Actually, as I recall

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It started much earlier with my statement about WG and you (I can't find it so I apologize. I was wrong). But That really doesn't matter anymore. The above post is my entire take on the entire situation.

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Every story that is based on true life, comes from the same book.

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Can you not see this to be true? I suggest you think about it and believe it to be true.
Think about it - All Christians share the same life (true life).

The "Adam binary/non-binary" confusion probably arose from a post I made on July 17, 2022, in the "Transgender Women" thread:

"Adam and Eve used their God-given free will to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. And then the universe became subject to endless possibilities, including the fact that both sex and gender are now on a spectrum."

And in another post on the same date, in the same thread:

"Things happen to the fetal brain and body during pregnancy. Some of those things involve estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone. Since God's perfect binary system was changed and rewritten by Adam and Eve [via free will], gender identification is no longer what was originally intended. Humans, animals, insects, and even plants are now subject to non-binary possibilities."

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Can you not see this to be true? I suggest you think about it and believe it to be true.
Think about it - All Christians share the same life (true life).

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I know you believe it. I also know that, "Every story that is based on true life, comes from the same book," is a somewhat incoherent statement. What do you mean by, "Every story that is based on true life?"

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Since God's perfect binary system was changed and rewritten by Adam and Eve [via free will],

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There is nothing in the Bible to support such an idea.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

There is nothing in the Bible to support such an idea.

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Read the first three chapters of Genesis.

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Read the first three chapters of Genesis.

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I've done that many dozens of times. Perhaps you could quote the SPECIFIC passage where it teaches that, "God's perfect binary system was changed and rewritten by Adam and Eve [via free will]."

I will patiently wait.

God created Adam, a binary male, and Eve, a binary female. Adam and Eve used their God-given free will to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Mother Nature became subject to endless possibilities that included transgenderism in insects, birds, animals, plants, humans.

Since you failed utterly the first time, I'll give you a second chance.

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Perhaps you could quote the SPECIFIC passage where it teaches that, "God's perfect binary system was changed and rewritten by Adam and Eve [via free will]."

I will patiently wait.

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You can add quoting the specific passage where it teaches that, " Mother Nature became subject to endless possibilities that included transgenderism in insects, birds, animals, plants, humans."

I'll wait patiently for that one as well. In vain, most likely.

God created Adam, a binary male, and Eve, a binary female. Adam and Eve used their God-given free will to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Mother Nature became subject to endless possibilities that included transgenderism in insects, birds, animals, plants, humans.

If God had not given Adam and Eve free will, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve, as well as the rest of sentient beings on Earth, to be “free” beings, able to make decisions.

Your third and final opportunity. "Thus sayeth Wondergirl" is not sufficient.

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1. Perhaps you could quote the SPECIFIC passage where it teaches that, "God's perfect binary system was changed and rewritten by Adam and Eve [via free will]."

2. You can add quoting the specific passage where it teaches that, " Mother Nature became subject to endless possibilities that included transgenderism in insects, birds, animals, plants, humans."

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I'll wait patiently for these two as well. Alas, in vain, most likely.

Athos was correct. You're a literalist. I wish he were here.

He couldn't help you. You would be much better served to simply be honest and admit that you have a completely unsupported theory. Instead, you try to be evasive by suggesting that I read the first three chapters of Genesis. At least acknowledge that your ideas are not to be found in the Bible for they are certainly not.

Then how do you account for non-binary in plants, insects, animals, birds, humans?

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God created Adam, a binary male, and Eve, a binary female. Adam and Eve used their God-given free will to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Mother Nature became subject to endless possibilities that included transgenderism in insects, birds, animals, plants, humans.

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Textbook example of a non-sequitur.

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Then how do you account for non-binary in plants, insects, animals, birds, humans?

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Give me an example that is not the result of a genetic abnormality.