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It...does...not...say...the...Holy...Spirit. It...does...not...say...faith...is...the...subject .Quote:
The. Gift. Of. God.
This was your weak as water reply. "We are always on the prowl (lookout) for them to show them our love and, through that love, witness to them."
So I guess I need to be more specific. What happens to them if they die after rejecting and never accepting the Gospel? "It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgment."
What then?
If you were a Bible scribe, heaven help us all! This is EXACTLY why the Scriptures have been mistranslated and misinterpreted.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Try it.Quote:
This was your weak as water reply. "We are always on the prowl (lookout) for them to show them our love and, through that love, witness to them."
Not my call. You believe God will send to hell everyone except "true believers" (are we up to 1,000 yet?).Quote:
So I guess I need to be more specific. What happens to them if they die after rejecting and never accepting the Gospel? "It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgment."
What then?
Quotes:
Waldo- Faith is not believe in a God of your own imagination.
Athos- Of course it is. Faith does not require real-world evidence outside of your imagination.
Waldo- (Talking about faith)So what is it you want?
Athos -FACTS are what is required here.
Waldo- You mean "Facts" like "real-world evidence outside of your imagination"?
Athos- Coherent facts. Not dream fantasies, imaginary beliefs.
Waldo- You seem to be confused. Your previous statements don't jive.
Athos- That's it I'm done talking.
Waldo- can you separate faith and logic?
Athos- Sure. Faith is based on belief. Logic is based on reason. Faith is subjective. Logic is objective.
Waldo- Part of the reason that we strive to separate faith and logic is that logic demands proof and evidence while faith sees something as a reality which is yet unseen. You might have a good grasp on Logic but you have no comprehension of what faith is.
Waldo- Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses].
Athos- With your exegesis in parens, you have managed to misconstrue the meaning. More like totally garbled it.
Waldo- (Who? what? how? huh??? )
Athos- Being convinced of a thing is proof?? Huh? Not in a million years.
Waldo- You're thinking with your eyes.
Athos- No, I think with my brain.
Waldo- Talking about faith here.
Athos- I'm still waiting for your responses to proving God
Waldo- Here it is; GOD said it, I believe it.
Athos- still waiting...is not logical, does not compute, does not compute...overload, overload (rissen friss frassin friss frass)
Athos- your Crazy
Waldo- Do you think I'm Craaazy, crazaay...maybe I'm crazaay crazy just like youuuu! I love that Song.
I realize it is not your call, but you are certainly drawing conclusions in other areas based upon your understanding of scripture. What is your understanding of scripture here?Quote:
Not my call. You believe God will send to hell everyone except "true believers" (are we up to 1,000 yet?).
What difference does it make? No matter what I say, I'll be wrong, according to you. Of course, I could parrot you and get a high-five from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Waltero - Very good, I'm impressed. I know it took time and effort for you to get all those quotes in a reasonable order and properly attributed. I realize it's c/p but still.............Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Now, I stand by every single quote by me without qualification. Clear enough for you? It was unclear the reason you posted those. I assume you think they're in various stages of error, but maybe my assumption is incorrect.
In any case, if you object to any, just note which ones, tell me why, and I will be most happy to give you my reason(s). OK?
A lot.Quote:
What difference does it make?
Sooooo, you want me to say that everyone who doesn't believe like I do will endure an endless fiery hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Fair enough.Quote:
if you object to any, just note which ones, tell me why, and I will be most happy to give you my reason(s). OK?
It's a Childlike faith.
In the Video below, It would be very easy for either child to simply look outside the window and "see" the truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaM9J2VHLf8
God and Faith:
My Father told me something, there is no need for me to go "see" if it is true. He said it, I believe it. When God said he created the entire universe I believe him. SO when somebody comes up to me and says; prove it! I might simply say- what are you talking about, your standing on it. They would probably respond; your crazy- what are you talking about (spark of curiosity) Then I'd take it from there, if they chose to stick around (you'd be surprised how long people stick around). You might think it is "the wrong approach for Christians" to express their desire while attempting to "prove the existence of God." Maybe you could see it as a childlike faith? is that acceptable to you?
I liked how the boy slipped in there "your pretty." Strange how he said; You’re not real I’m real”
If this is to me, it's not one of the posts from your #46.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
To repeat: if you object to any, just note which ones, tell me why, and I will be most happy to give you my reason(s). OK?
I think you said Ok to this or something like that. If so, try again.
This is where it all began.
Quote:
There is no proof for the existence of God
Why: Because It looks as if you have some animosity towered such belief.Quote:
"the wrong approach for Christians"
Sorry I thought it was obvious. I'm tired of searching through posts
I don't know if it is one of the questions you prefer. If not you can disregard.
This is not one of the quotes you said you would give for questions. Do you understand what you agreed to? Do you want me to answer this one anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Sure
Here it is:
Why; If I only had a brain.Quote:
No, I think with my brain.
Your part is to tell me why you object to my saying I think with my brain. I originally bolded tat on purpose so you wouldn't forget.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Nah, I was just being silly. Tired, can't go into right now.Quote:
Sure
Here it is:
Why; If I only had a brain.
Night
I want you to say what you believe. I was surprised you would agree that people do reject the Gospel. If you don't want to say what happens to those people once they die, then that's fine. Your choice.Quote:
Sooooo, you want me to say that everyone who doesn't believe like I do will endure an endless fiery hell.
But if I say what I believe, you will cut me down to size and spit in my face as I fall to the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
God hasn't made me a celestial judge. He's even told us not to judge, lest we be judged ourselves. If someone rejects Him, that person is immediately destined for hell no matter what? And we, like God, can see into that person's heart and know him/her and why the rejection?
Stop complaining and grossly exaggerating. Give and take is all part of discussion. I have actually applauded you WILDLY for your discovery that there are those who reject the Gospel.Quote:
But if I say what I believe, you will cut me down to size and spit in my face as I fall to the ground.
I simply asked you what you believe the Bible teaches about those people. If you don't know, or don't want to answer, then that's fine. We can move on.Quote:
God hasn't made me a celestial judge. He's even told us not to judge, lest we be judged ourselves. If someone rejects Him, that person is immediately destined for hell no matter what? And we, like God, can see into that person's heart and know him/her and why the rejection?
You demand others explain their beliefs while you never do so. You just provide Bible verses when asked to explain. Strikes me as a double standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
1. I did not ask her to explain anything. I simply asked her what she believed the Bible teaches. If she wants to post several clear, to-the-point passages from the Bible, then I would be thrilled. It would be a massive change for either of you to do that.Quote:
You demand others explain their beliefs while you never do so. You just provide Bible verses when asked to explain. Strikes me as a double standard.
2. I have explained to you what I believe. I believe that what Jesus said is true. His statements are utterly clear and utterly to-the-point. You don't like them nor believe them. That's your choice.
Your upset because you want to flip the discussion to what my opinions are. You can hardly wait to leap and pounce upon them. Then you get frustrated when I avoid that. I simply post what the Bible says and assure you that I believe those words. That way, if you want to argue, you'll have to argue with God. I'll warn you in advance; He is not moved by what you or I think.
Calm down. Your panties are getting in a bunch again.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Yes, you do. That's the problem. You hide behind the verses and claim everybody else puts their "opinions" above the Bible. You never seem to realize that your choice of Bible Bingo is an opinion also.Quote:
I simply post what the Bible says
There you go again! Equating your opinions with God.Quote:
That way, if you want to argue, you'll have to argue with God.
Of course you will. It wouldn't be you unless it was accompanied by a threat.Quote:
I'll warn you in advance
One wild (???) round of applause doesn't make up for months of applesauce.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I believe it's in God's hands, and is not in my wheelhouse.Quote:
I simply asked you what you believe the Bible teaches about those people. If you don't know, or don't want to answer, then that's fine. We can move on.
The few times I have, they weren't good enough.Quote:
If she wants to post several clear, to-the-point passages from the Bible, then I would be thrilled.
You're so funny (as in "strange"). You are so anxious to say something to sound "big" that you pick out practically anything and reply to it. I much prefer your Darth Vader persona. It's way over the top in drama, but that kind of suits you. As a comedian, you just don't cut it.Quote:
Your upset because you want to flip the discussion to what my opinions are. You can hardly wait to leap and pounce upon them.
Calm down. Your panties are getting in a bunch again.
You just don't get it. There are those of us who live by what the Bible teaches. We are called "Christians". We don't hide behind verses, we simply believe them. You don't, and therein lies the difference.Quote:
Yes, you do. That's the problem. You hide behind the verses and claim everybody else puts their "opinions" above the Bible. You never seem to realize that your choice of Bible Bingo is an opinion also.
Quote:
That way, if you want to argue, you'll have to argue with God.
You are really slow in getting this. If you don't like the Bible, then you will have to take that up with it's author. See how simple that is?Quote:
There you go again! Equating your opinions with God.
WG
You have to deserve the applause to get it.Quote:
One wild (???) round of applause doesn't make up for months of applesauce.
Fair enough. Probably just raw evasion, but still fair enough. We can go with that.Quote:
I believe it's in God's hands, and is not in my wheelhouse.
I'm sure you are referring to your last two water-weak attempts. They were clear, but absolutely not to-the-point in regards to what you were trying to establish.Quote:
If she wants to post several clear, to-the-point passages from the Bible, then I would be thrilled.
The few times I have, they weren't good enough.
WG said: One wild (???) round of applause doesn't make up for months of applesauce.
Just like how you think of heaven.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I just can't cut the mustard, can I. Woe is me. I will NEVER be good enough for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
As an analyst, you are about as effective as a Bible thumper.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Thank you. And thanks for saying what your DV means. I didn't know that.Quote:
I much prefer your Darth Vader persona.
And you were being so complimentary there! Now you've reverted to your true colors of nastiness. Not a good example for a self-proclaimed Christian.Quote:
It's way over the top in drama, but that kind of suits you. As a comedian, you just don't cut it.
Oh, I get it all right. More than you will ever know.Quote:
You just don't get it.
Good for you. Has anyone here ever said differently?Quote:
There are those of us who live by what the Bible teaches.
You don't explain yourself either, while demanding all sorts of things from others so you can entrap them. Not very Christian.Quote:
We don't hide behind verses
You believe literally. That's where your problem is.Quote:
we simply believe them
You have no idea what I believe, but that has never stopped you from claiming that you do. Among your many unfortunate tendencies, this is a big one - assuming you know the minds of others.Quote:
You don't, and therein lies the difference.
There you go again. Your now familiar standby when you run out of steam - "I didn't write it, I just quote it. It means what I say it means".Quote:
You are really slow in getting this. If you don't like the Bible, then you will have to take that up with it's author.
Why is it you care about what I believe?
And there you go again lying. I have never said that. You know, quoted passages need to be accurate.Quote:
There you go again. Your now familiar standby when you run out of steam - "I didn't write it, I just quote it. It means what I say it means".
I did come up with one other for you.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
WG
I would love to have you in a Bible class. I think I could teach you some useful principles of good hermeneutics AND get you past this business of feeling sorry for yourself.Quote:
I just can't cut the mustard, can I. Woe is me. I will NEVER be good enough for you.
Because your belief re hell is horrible and should never be taught to children (or anyone) as a condition of salvation.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
WG can speak for herself, but I must point out that your so-called "teaching" would include the most horrific evil ever conceived by man.Quote:
WG
I think I could teach you some useful principles of good hermeneutics
Just can't resist that bit of insulting nastiness, can you?Quote:
AND get you past this business of feeling sorry for yourself.
Well you should be thrilled to know that I don't do that. And bear in mind, for the 710th time, that it is not my belief about hell that we are discussing. It is what Jesus taught that should really grab you. But it doesn't because you couldn't care less what Jesus said UNLESS it agrees with your preconceived ideas. Now is that true? If it's not, and you actually do care what Jesus said, then why don't you accept it?Quote:
Because your belief re hell is horrible and should never be taught to children (or anyone) as a condition of salvation.
It's not nastiness. It's just truth. "Woe is me. I will NEVER be good enough for you."Quote:
Just can't resist that bit of insulting nastiness, can you?
Please. Stop.
Athos wants to open your heart so you don't end up in that fiery hell for eternity.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Sweety, I have been in and taught Bible classes all my adult life, plus have had more courses and classes in hermeneutics than you could shake a stick at. You didn't catch the sarcasm in my comment about cutting the mustard? Oh, my!Quote:
WG, I would love to have you in a Bible class. I think I could teach you some useful principles of good hermeneutics AND get you past this business of feeling sorry for yourself.
It isn't? Then what IS your belief re hell? YOUR belief, not a verse from the Bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
No, it's nastiness, and your inability to recognize irony.Quote:
It's not nastiness. It's just truth. "Woe is me. I will NEVER be good enough for you."
Sure, as soon as you stop your sick hell promotion, and your ubiquitous nastiness.Quote:
Please. Stop.
I believe that what the Bible teaches about hell is correct. For instance, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:Quote:
It isn't? Then what IS your belief re hell? YOUR belief, not a verse from the Bible.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Now bear in mind that Jesus is the one speaking.
"Ubiquitoous"!! Wow. That's are real Darth Vaderism.Quote:
Sure, as soon as you stop your sick hell promotion, and your ubiquitous nastiness.
Could have been irony except that she is clearly afraid to express her opinion lest someone actually challenge her on it.Quote:
No, it's nastiness, and your inability to recognize irony.
I'm not afraid; my soul is weary. I've expressed my ideas on topics but have been told by you my pov is incorrect. Apparently, no honest discussion with you is possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Discussion isn't a slam-bam thing but full of questions, like "Have you ever read xxx? If so, what did you think about it?" or "I've always believed this about xxx. What is your experience?"
I ask you for evidence (scripture, for instance) to support your view. On nearly every occasion, you have nothing. That is not my fault. That's why I would like to have you in a Bible class, to teach you how to discover truth in the Bible, or even just how to support an idea with evidence.Quote:
I'm not afraid; my soul is weary. I've expressed my ideas on topics but have been told by you my pov is incorrect. Apparently, no honest discussion with you is possible.
That is really, really, really whiny. I am not going to treat you like a little helpless female. The evidence of your life suggests you are a perfectly intelligent, brave, and accomplished human being, so I treat you in that manner. If you ever see how much you have allowed your political inclinations to influence your world view, you are going to be shocked, and it will be a great day.Quote:
no honest discussion with you is possible.
I see you can't express yourself on the topic without throwing out Bible verses, even when specifically asked to do so. Same old, same old..... yawn.....Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Nooo, it's a 2,000 year old piece of paper that CLAIMS to be Jesus speaking. As a guy big on evidence, you ought to know that.Quote:
Now bear in mind that Jesus is the one speaking.
It's a big word only to you which is surprising for a self-proclaimed high school principal ... hmmm. Plus you're not much of a speller, are you? More hmmm.... Get spelchek.Quote:
"Ubiquitoous"!! Wow.
You treat EVERYONE who doesn't agree with you like a helpless, whiny baby.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I shouldn't love others and do what I can to help those who have been crushed by life and by other people?Quote:
you have allowed your political inclinations to influence your world view, you are going to be shocked, and it will be a great day.
If you mean I think everyone should be able to support their contentions with evidence, then I plead guilty.Quote:
You treat EVERYONE who doesn't agree with you like a helpless, whiny baby.
No. Those concepts come only from the Christian/Jewish faiths and it's wonderful you hold them. It's the ideas that transgenderism is fine, gay marriage is fine, homosexual behavior is fine, sex outside of marriage is fine, and abortion is fine that come from your political inclinations.Quote:
you have allowed your political inclinations to influence your world view, you are going to be shocked, and it will be a great day.
Quote:
I shouldn't love others and do what I can to help those who have been crushed by life and by other people?
But you never accept any evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Once Adam and Eve ate that apple, the universe became open to unlimited possibilities. No more binary. I have a number of friends and some relatives who are in the LGBT+ community, and I love them dearly. Nope, no influence from political inclinations, just from living life for many years.Quote:
No. Those concepts come only from the Christian/Jewish faiths and it's wonderful you hold them. It's the ideas that transgenderism is fine, gay marriage is fine, homosexual behavior is fine, ...that come from your political inclinations.
Try a little love, JL, not bashing Bibles on people's heads.
Such as when?Quote:
But you never accept any evidence.
Where does the Bible teach that there is "no more binary"? Does Jesus support your idea when he said, "Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? " That sure sounds awfully binary, doesn't it? It's almost as though He is speaking to you. "Have you not heard? Wondergirl, have you not heard what God has said? Have you not heard?"Quote:
Once Adam and Eve ate that apple, the universe became open to unlimited possibilities. No more binary.
Always.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Yes, the Creator made them male and female but that apple-eating episode queered the deal. Now the human, animal, and even plant world are no longer only binary.Quote:
Where does the Bible teach that there is "no more binary"? Does Jesus support your idea when he said, "Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? " It's almost as though He is speaking to you. "Have you not heard?"
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