Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donna Mae

... A Christian can burn in hell right next to a non-believer ...

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I have to protest about that! Non-believers prefer their own section... :D

But serious : of course that all is subject to : "if there is a hell".
And if that hell is like you describe it.
What brings up the thought that the difference between Heaven and Hell basically is (if they exist) that Heaven is with and Hell is without the presence of God.
Isn't it time to lose all these 2000+ years old simplistic ideas of actual fire and burning brimstone?
:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

I have to protest about that! Non-believers prefer their own section ... :D

But serious : of course that all is subject to : "if there is a hell".
And if that hell is like you describe it.
What brings up the thought that the difference between Heaven and Hell basically is (if they exist) that Heaven is with and Hell is without the presence of God.
Isn't it time to lose all these 2000+ years old simplistic ideas of actual fire and burning brimstone?
:rolleyes:

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Unfortunately just because years have advanced on earth does not mean hell has ceased to exist. It is still real and very much there. Yes even the fire and brimstone :)

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Originally Posted by sassyT

Unfortunately just because years have advanced on earth does not mean hell has ceased to exist. It is still real and very much there. Yes even the fire and brimstone :)

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That is what you BELIEVE. But is that factual? Is that the one and only truth?
;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

That is what you BELIEVE But is that factual? Is that the one and only truth?
;)

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YES, You BELIEVE there is no hell, no God, no Heven etc right? But is that FACTUAL? Or is that just what you have faith in? ;)

He is playing games with God and if he doesn't grow and learn that God is not into games then he very likely was never really saved to begin with.
Like if he doesn't see a problem with purposely sinning because he knows he can ask God to forgive him then maybe he used the same logic with the 'getting saved' part.
Many Christians play the game your boyfriend is playing right now but eventually grow up. God looks at the heart and intent. If he does not grow and learn then he was just playing games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lonely_scared_confused

Ok...I got saved about 5 or 6 months ago and my boyfriend who used to be a very good christian encouraged me to..well now my boyfriend is slacking off and has been purposely doing sins, and asks God for forgiveness, knowing that he will do it again.. and he thinks that just because he is saved he will still go to heaven and not hell..my question is will you still go to heaven if you are saved and doing sins on purpose and asking God for forgiveness but knowing that you are going to do it again or will you go to Hell? Please help me!!:confused: :(

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Your boyfriend is wrong! GOD will forgive us for our sins if we repent from our heart. If he knows he's going to keep doing wrong Hes playing with God In the bible Jesus said "Go and Sin no more" Your boyfriend is taking GOD's grace and mercy to to play with. People always talk about how much GOD loves us but GOD does get angry. He doesn't want to fall under the wrath of an angry GOD!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lonely_scared_confused

Ok...I got saved about 5 or 6 months ago and my boyfriend who used to be a very good christian encouraged me to..well now my boyfriend is slacking off and has been purposely doing sins, and asks God for forgiveness, knowing that he will do it again.. and he thinks that just because he is saved he will still go to heaven and not hell..my question is will you still go to heaven if you are saved and doing sins on purpose and asking God for forgiveness but knowing that you are going to do it again or will you go to Hell? Please help me!!:confused: :(

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Hell:

Romans 6
1 What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein?


Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries. 28 A man making void the law of Moses, dieth without any mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 How much more, do you think he deserveth worse punishments, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath esteemed the blood of the testament unclean, by which he was sanctified, and hath offered an affront to the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said: Vengeance belongeth to me, and I will repay. And again: The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Sincerely,

De Maria

if this is about sex, it's a hard thing to get purified, even if you try. Seems like the boyfriend may have given up because of the guilt. Like maybe if he can't be good, then he'll stop trying. I completely understand. If he keeps coming to god and confessing his sins, then yes, god will forgive him every time. The holy spirit was sent to help us, and we need that power to stop sinning. Your boyfriend may have the mindset that god's going to punish him anyway, cause that's what sin brings. But he doesn't understand that god's merciful, and jesus died for our sins while we were yet sinners. Your boyfriend needs the love and mercy of god to stop sinning. Tell him instead of giving up, plead for this love and mercy, and for the holy spirit to help him where he's weak. God loves him, and does not wish that he perishes. If he needs help understanding something, please tell him to write me on here.

hi I play basketball I am saved but I sin every day if I could follow jesus all the time it would be great a lot of people pretend to be saved, they lie ,and steal which is wrong it is not right to do so if you are saved do what is right I am 14 years old I got saved last year at bible school so follow, worship, and live through him and do what's right:o

Please pray for me

lonely_scared_confused.
De Maria is right.
Continuing to sin willfully is a big no no.
Yes God is forgiving but flaunting sin in His face surely will make Him angry.
What would your own father do if you disobeyed his with doing the same wrong over and over again.
Would he not punish you is some way and be very sad that you kept on doing the same wrong?
The same for your boy friend.
God loves the sinner but hates the sin. That is why He urges us to quit sinning.
The willful sinner is hell bound and God does not want to have to send you or your boy friend to hell.
But willful repeated sinning severely stains one's soul.
So stop doing it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

there is a book I just read call "if grace is true"- its about gods love and the very controversial topic of who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. If you don't what to see the foundations of our religion questioned and re-evaluated, Don't READ IT.

it focuses on gods eternal, unconditional, unwavering and ever-patient love. This is the part that gets to people- god will save everyone.

before your call that heresy or condemn me to hell if I don't change, think about it, if u think that death will stop god from loving us, that god will just drop his promise of loving us when we die and go to hell, that he can't reach us in hell or that he doesn't want to save us, please consider that you are diminishing the power of his love, the power of his will to have his children in heaven with him. Consider that you are diminishing his strength to carry out his will, to overcome evil through love and forgiveness, and that you are dimishing his patience with us, we can sin and sin again, it will take longer to save us but in the end we will be saved. Know that I am NOT SAYING that you should just sin because you will go to heaven eventually anyway... but then why do good in the first place you may ask... feel ashamed that you even asked that question, we work for god not for a prize, not just to have a seat with him in heaven, but to please him, to live with him and feel joy when we give him joy.

our faith is not the goal at the end of the road, if u concentrate on that goal, not on the journey you will find your way blocked. Our faith is a journey, with jesus christ sent by god so we are shown the right path, it may be a narrow gate to go through to get to heaven once we find it, we have to shed everything we are to get through them, but in the end, jesus will stay with us, and guide us back to god show us how to get to god. We must follow jesus, he is the only way to god, when I say that I look at jesus and his grace, we have to have faith in jesus and believe in him, believe that following him is the right choice to god. Jesus did not come for the faithful, but for the sin full, he came so that his message might be heard and that he would be believed when he spoke the word of god, and ultimately that we would follow him to the end.

monkeydamyo,
I think that Jesus came for everyone and to help make the sinners faithful and righteous.
It is those who think that they are great because they obey the law and show off their tithing whose pride will prevent them from their salvation.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

If we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself. - 2 timothy 2:13 would god truly be satisified at such a failure? His wish is to have all of us with him in heaven, so believing that having less than 1% of all humans through out all of history would be belittling gods power, love and patience, do u think he would stop looking for his lost sheep just because the sheep is knowingly evading him? We are mere sheep, he is the lord, his strides will out step us eventually, and once we see him, we know we are not lost any longer, and we will beg for forgiveness, but he will already be holding in his loving arms. There is just too much comparison of god to human nature and stories about god from human views, he does not get angry like we do, to do so is sinful. Where even the most patient humans will eventually snap and grow wrathful, god will be better and remain loving and patient. Plus its not the finish line of a race we are concentrating on, it's the journey with god where joy is made, the life with god where we help him gather his sheep along the path- and we will go back for any sheep that were not found until we are all in gods embrace.

Using the lost sheep thing again, we will grow tired of running away, god will find us. Or using the parable of the prodigal son, god didn't wait for us to walk through the doors, once we grow weary or hungry, we will find the realization of gods greatness. He will come out to meet us once we are back on the right path to him.

monkeydamyo,
The bible tells us that only the few will go to heaven.
If all who proclaim to be Christian go that's 2 billion people.
BUT>>>>
It's just a few of the almost 7 billion people on this planet today.
Yes, I do believe that God does eventually give up efforts on some people, particularly those who outwardly, strenuously reject Him.
I think that strongly committed atheists have little chance to go to heaven.
That's sad.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I understand your point, and respect your opinion. I also meant since the beginning of human civilization, which is an almost innumerable amount of people. The number of people going to heaven would increase, but the fact that for a time most people went to church without knowing the language in which the religion was taught in, of the ones that did, many were corrupt.

the reason the devil most certainly will not be redeemed is exactly because the increase of his hate and rejection of god after every demonstration of grace god shows. But he is different from humans, he is eternal and will suffer. But humans are not made like that, god made us, and after long we will become empty husks, Satan cares nothing for us so his drive in us will not be replenished, and we will seek god. In my opinion, I believe god will see us at the door step, and the pent up salvation he had saved for us all hasn't gone anywhere, he doesn't have the need to through stuff out. The joy he will take in releasing his love once again will be great, he seeks to give salvation when genuinely asked for, once we get it, no sin short term will make us feel better than his love eternal love.

I just realized I post really long comments...

monkeydamyo,
I actually hope you are right, but I fear that that will not be.
Hell is for those whom God judges to be goats.
The sheep go to heaven.
The bible is clear about that.
Jesus tells us all about hell and the lake of fire that those judged not saved will be cast into.
It is the eternal abode of agony.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I hope I'm right too- but we are only human. Only god is completely sure of the truth, we can only interpret his works and our experience/ relationship with him, in the end, its up to the lord... but I am hoping that he is gracious and I am placing my faith with him because I trust his love.

monkeydamyo,
Good for you.
I'm a bit disturbed about someone having been sinful for this short life being sent to any eternity (much longer than several trillion years) as punishment.
But I an not as wise and just as God is.
So I must accept what He says and does.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lonely_scared_confused

Ok...I got saved about 5 or 6 months ago and my boyfriend who used to be a very good christian encouraged me to..well now my boyfriend is slacking off and has been purposely doing sins, and asks God for forgiveness, knowing that he will do it again.. and he thinks that just because he is saved he will still go to heaven and not hell..my question is will you still go to heaven if you are saved and doing sins on purpose and asking God for forgiveness but knowing that you are going to do it again or will you go to Hell? Please help me!!:confused: :(

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I would have to tell you yes if your boyfriend doesn't truly make effort to stop sinning & truly repent of his sin he will end up in HELL. Right now there is women who was just like your boyfriend who continued to do sinful things & say she believed in JESUS & come to him & keep confessing the same sin but go right back out & do that same sin again. Well eventually once she died THE LORD JESUS CHRIST sent her to HELL cause she loved her sin more than JESUS. This testimony came from a women that was showed HELL by JESUS CHRIST called Marry K Baxter. I suggest you show her testimony to you boyfriend & tell him to truly repent of his sin before it's to late & he does end up in HELL & if that doesn't change him & make him turn from his sinful ways then that shows the LORD has just harden his heart & he has chosen to love his sin more than JESUS CHRIST. JESUS said many will come to him saying LORD LORD I worship you in your name & he will say to those people away with you worker of inequity I never knew you.

uncleshal,
You have made a very good point.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Hebrews 2: 1-3
We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation?

Acts 16: 30-34
He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in the house. At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:31 KJV

So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." NKJV

They replied, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with your entire household." NLT

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved–you and your household.” NIV

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” ESV

They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." NASB

And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." RSV

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house. ASV

and they said, `Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved -- thou and thy house;' Young Literal Translation

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house. Darby

But they said: Believe in the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Douay-Rheims

And last but not least, "They said: "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved, you and your household." New World Translation

So which of these mistranslated the scriptures?

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You just need to finish the scripture. "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.

Donna Mae II,
Yes that is true we must do as the bible says do.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donna Mae II

You just need to finish the scripture. "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.

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Curious here?? What would have happened to that jailer if after his confession and during the washing of their wounds he would have croaked? Of course baptism should follow the confession but for many reasons it does not IMMEDIATELY. What would happen if I were to lay in a hospital bed and turned to the Lord just before I died. I confessed I was a sinner and I needed HIM, then I died. Because I didn't have a chance to be baptized does that make me unsaved? I think NOT.

Salvation is of the Lord. All we can do is believe it by faith and accept the free gift.

Romans 10:9 IF thou shalf confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believen in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.

By the way.. I was baptized in the 3rd grade but I was saved several years before the baptism.

I do fully believe that we must be baptized into Christ, and that as soon as we accept Jesus as our Savior, we should be baptized. But as you said things can happen like an auto accident on the way to be baptized, that's where God's grace comes in. God can save anyone, but I wouldn't want to take the chance of losing my salvation by putting off being baptized. God knows our hearts and if we put it off thinking, I'm saved, I can be baptized anytime--that's wrong, and we could lose our salvation. Why would anyone want to postpone something so important to salvation.

Donna Mae II,
Yes it is a big mistake to put off being baptized.
However there are many theologians who think that if a person intends to be baptized but for some reason such as a car accident prevented that for taking place they call that "Baptism by Intent" and God's mercy and grace prevails.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Again, God can't and won't go against his word. If physical baptism is required of one for salvation.. it is required of all. NO exceptions.

Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shalll be saved.

Believe on the Lord Jesus christ and thou shalt be saved...

If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.

Salvation is of the LORD.

We are automatically spirtially baptized with Christ... something GOD does when we call upon him for salvation.

The physical act is an outward expression of an inward belief. The Lord Jesus told us to do it. I did... it didn't save me.

The Lord Jesus told us to remember him in his death with the bread and wine. I do. It doesn't save me.

The Lord Jesus said... if you love me, you will obey me.

Anyone who has called on the Lord Jesus for salvation are in direct disobedience if they don't get baptized.

It takes another human being to baptize a person. It is PREPOSTEROUS to think that the Lord would leave ANYTHING to man, he finished the work the only thing left for us to do is receive it by faith.

ONE more time for good measure... Salvation is of the LORD. Jonah 2:9

classyT,
STOP and think a minute about that...
Jesus left a lot of things and activities for we human followers of Him to do.
He told his followers (among other things) to go out into the world preaching and teaching AND to baptize. That's three different things.
He said TO DO THAT!!
I do believe that Jesus meant what He said.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by classyT

Again, God can't and won't go against his word. If physical baptism is required of one for salvation..it is required of all. NO exceptions.

Jesus didn't pick and choose who should be baptized. He said, in Matthew 28:18, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
There are NO exceptions.
Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shalll be saved.

Believe on the Lord Jesus christ and thou shalt be saved...

Acts 19:1-5 says, "And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, "Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." He said to them, "Unto what then were you baptized?" They said, "Unto John's baptism." Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

John's baptism was to believe on Jesus. If that's all we have to do today then why did the disciples have to be baptized again?

If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.

Salvation is of the LORD.

We are automatically spirtially baptized with Christ...something GOD does when we call upon him for salvation.

Can I ask where it says in the Bible that we are automatically spiritually baptized? Acts 8: 26-40 tells of how Philip baptized the Ethiopian. There was no automatic baptism, they both went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

The physical act is an outward expression of an inward belief. The Lord Jesus told us to do it. I did...it didn't save me.

I did too, and God saved me. But it is a command that we must do.

The Lord Jesus told us to remember him in his death with the bread and wine. I do. It doesn't save me.

I remember our Lord Jesus every Sunday with His communion, and yes, that is part of being saved. Jesus said," This is my body which is for you, do this in remembrance of me." In the same way He took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. 1 Corinthians 11:24-26
It also says whoever eats or drinks this in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord...For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

If there is nothing we can do, after we are saved, to lose our salvation, then why would we bring judgement on ourselves if we take His supper in an unworthy way?

The Lord Jesus said...if you love me, you will obey me.

I do love Him, that's why I obeyed Him by being baptized.

Anyone who has called on the Lord Jesus for salvation are in direct disobedience if they don't get baptized.

It takes another human being to baptize a person. It is PREPOSTEROUS to think that the Lord would leave ANYTHING to man, he finished the work the only thing left for us to do is recieve it by faith.

God left our salvation to man. To us. He saves us, but if we do not do His will (and yes He left that to us-to do it or not), then we choose our final destination--hell.

ONE more time for good measure... Salvation is of the LORD. Jonah 2:9

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Yes, salvation is of the Lord. And He also said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

dwashbur
God doesn't tell us if the thief on the cross was baptized or not. He could have been baptized by John's baptism.

Donna,
... even IF he were baptized what good did it do him? He obviously hadn't repented.. he was on the cross for crimes he committed. AND... at first HE was trash talking the Lord with the other thief... He watched and he listened to Jesus on that cross and had a HEART change. What good does baptism do IF you don't have a heart change? It does NOTHING. Just another useless act.

The Bible after the death and resurrection of Christ instructs us to BELIEVE first and then get baptized. Not the other way around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

classyT,
STOP and think a minute about that....
Jesus left a lot of things and activities for we human followers of Him to do.
He told his followers (among other things) to go out into the world preaching and teaching AND to baptize. That's three different things.
He said TO DO THAT!!!!
I do believe that Jesus meant what He said.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Actually, there's only one thing in the Greek of the Great Commission in Matthew 28: make disciples. The next two actions, teaching and baptizing, are aspects of that command. "Make disciples" is an imperative (command) while "teaching" and "baptizing" are participles (descriptive) explaining some of what's involved in making disciples.

That comes from my alter ego, Sir Nitpick ;) (I sometimes have a hard time controlling him.)

Donna, there is nothing at all in the text to even hint at such a thing. You can speculate, of course, but that's all it is. And it gets us nowhere.

Hi my name is kira and I have seen your question. I was confused and scared on this before too but not until I had read this one on a site. READ:

Now some churches multiply rules: you can’t drink, you can’t smoke, you can’t go to movies, you can’t dance, you can’t wear makeup,. But others take Luther’s realization to mean that, "Now that I’m a Christian and recited the magic words, I’ve got it made, and it doesn’t matter what I do. I can be as mean and nasty as I want. I’m saved." Have you ever met anyone like that?. Uh-huh, I have too.

And of course, that’s not right either. This is where the words of James are so important. Faith without works is dead. It’s not enough to learn about swimming from a book and recite the swimmers creed. You have to go in the water.

As Christians, we are freed from the law and the petty rules and legalisms. As Paul says, "The law kills, but the Spirit gives life."... New life. So if we are Christians, then we will exhibit the fruits of the Holy spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

But this doesn’t happen just because we say we believe in Jesus. Our faith is a free unmerited gift of God; but it’s not magic. We must accept God’s grace, and let it work in us. It’s not enough to say we believe in Jesus. We must accept him as our Lord and Savior and Master. That means committing our lives to him. It means committing to following his example, as best we can.

If you are wondering where it says faith without works is dead it is in the scripture in the bible is James 2:26.

Study hard on this what I have written. Yes of course it is possible to get a start and be saved by believing what he's done for you in your heart and by calling on his name but notice that it isn't just enough. As Christians we are new creatures Corinthians 5:17. If we are made new then the old has passed and new has come (changing from our sins and old ways to new ways). Yes it is possible to go to heaven being a sinner but there are painful consequences for that on judgement day which is when we die. We cannot just receive God and fully follow our own ways though and not try to change because that is not having works and we do not truly have faith then because it is dead without works. We need faith and works to get there! Having works is having the desire to change in the heart and trying to and wanting to be different. So those who don't believe in Christ or God and or do not follow his ways at all but there own will more likely perish. We need to have that desire to change and try to and give our lives to him.

We cannot get into heaven doing our own will and not some of his but not making a excuse of those who do not follow somewhat or do some things because they want. There is judgement day for that and they will pay the price the bible says so.

kiralyfe33,
Welcome.
I agree with you on this.
The bible gives us several examples of what we must do.
In fact one is a commandment issued by Jesus Christ and that is "Love one another as I have loved you.
Another example is if you want to be forgiven you must forgive others. Those who do not forgive will not be forgiven.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I'd just like to say this... I really dislike the term "once saved, always saved". Because the first thing people think is we can call on the Name of the Lord and be saved and then NOT change on the inside one bit.

Jesus said we shall know true believers by their fruit. Paul lists the fruit of the spirit in Galatians.

If a person NEVER displays real fruit in their lives, then I would sincerely doubt their salvation. ( But only God knows the heart)

I can tell you this, I was saved as a child. I love the Lord Jesus and the Lord himself said something like this... if you love me, you will obey me.

Ok, having said ALL that. I have stepped outside of the will of God for my life MANY times. In other words... I was disobedient. There have been times in my life where you'd NEVER have known I was a Christian because I acted like the world or worse. AND I never once lost my salvation. NEVER

AND... incidently HE was ever wooing me back to Himself. Always!! He never gave up. Because I am his child. And besides ALL of that I ended up miserable, lonely and missing HIM desperately.

Lets not kid ourselves! The Bible even says there IS pleasure in sin for a season. I mean it can be fun. But for a Christian... I couldn't continue on because I was tormented and I had no peace. So after I reaped what I sowed... I would come running back and he took me because I am HIS OWN. He never left me anyway. I wondered off... still sealed with His wonderful Spirit.

Do I believe that a true believer in Christ can lose their salvation? Isn't NO way. My Bible says I'm SEALED with the Holy Spirit. BUT there is always a consequence for sin... this verse is for EVERYBODY.. those that are Christians those that are NOT Christians.

Be not deceived, God is not mocked for whatsoever a man soweth, THAT shall he reap.
(galatians.. I don't know the chapter and verse off hand.)

Sow the good stuff, reap the good stuff. Sow the sin, reap the consequence. Your choice.

Some people call I Karma... I call it a biblical promise!

classyT,
A true Christian believer will do as Jesus and the bible say.
That means that they (believers) ARE working their faith.
But...
The person who does not work his/her faith proves that their faith is DEAD and therefor NOT a true believer.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,

We really are on the same page... sorta. I DO think we can get into a sin cycle. I have, it didn't change my position in Christ. I am IN HIM and No one is going to take me out. Not even ME.

Check out what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5 about the guy that is living with his stepmother in a sexual relationship. ( ewwwwww, yuck and barf.. btw). Paul calls this guy a brother... he doesn't say he lost his salvation. He says to turn him over to satan so satan could have at him but his soul would be saved in the end. Turns out the guy repented and so did the assembly for letting this go on before their eyes.

All the Lord wants is for us to judge ourselves and repent from our sins. He doesn't throw us out of the family. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ( incidentally it is what the Bible teaches too )

BUT someone who just says a prayer for salvation and who NEVER changes... I wouldn't own them as a Christian. BUT... only GOD knows the heart.